October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Yes, they have literally stalked us.
The main person behind the stalking has told people it’s because she’s “concerned” about me. Completely unwarranted. She’s literally followed us in her own car at times. When I’ve told wider family about it, I’m gaslit and told “it’s just because she cares”. It then impacts my mental health and they take that as proof that I need following. The flying monkeys all think “she just cares so much”. When really it’s utter rubbish and I think the motive is to make me feel trapped and tip me over the edge.
Photographing people (even children) in public is completely legal, which is disgusting IMO. Private detectives are also completely legal 😞.

@ONanotherplanetinTime @wonderingwonderingwondering

I'm 'blessed' too. My Parents told me to hunch my shoulders and bend a bit over due to my boobs. Ironically I wasn't allowed to wear a bra as it was 'seedy'.

I was petrified walking to school as they said it made me a target.

It's so traumatic.

@almondmilk123
Btw where the comparison between my sister and you breaks down and you and I are more alike is that I am the one who had the therapy and found the DH. Dsis is v hostile to therapy and talking about things, and has kids but no partner and prob never will. Is that your dependent Dsis? These traits can align in all sorts of ways like a kaleidoscope.

I think therapy is the differentiator, but more specifically, enough to be able to see the family dynamic, including toxic parents, sibling roles, and the current dysfunction. Some people spend their lives in therapy and don't get there. I did some therapy without the realisations, then ended up moving back from abroad, enlightened by my growth, wanting to help my family to grow too, and the backlash to the changes in me and desire to talk about things was re-traumatising. I had to be gaslit, invalidated, yelled at, penalised for not "getting in line" all over again before the penny dropped. The initial thought was "how can me being so much healthier and happier make these relationships worse for me?"

It's no coincidence I met the first emotionally available man I've ever dated after therapy. DH seeing the dysfunction and me suffering in it, the different parental treatment, and loving and validating me, letting me be my full self is what opened my eyes. When you bring healthy people into your life, they can shine a light on the dysfunction. How my family relates to me Vs how DH and his family relate couldn't be more different.

As for GC sister. She did some therapy after a breakup recently, but didn't get near any family stuff, she came out convinced her ex was deeply abusive and quit after that. She takes anti-depressants, will tell you openly she's always struggled with depression, but doesn't connect the dots. Relationships have been a struggle too, there's been 5 boyfriends in the last 5 years. She's become enmeshed with each one, moved them in within days of dating, indoctrinated into the family within weeks. Three lads out golfing with my Dad in that time. It's one of the reasons I stopped the family visits, these men would be treated better than me and my parents happy enough to open their doors, cook dinner, do their laundry, then console sis when it went pear-shaped by scapegoating them. I think my mother enjoys the drama of it, it reinforces her need to believe she's a fantastic mother. GC has a new partner as of the last few months, he seems nice and normal but it's never really about that for her. They tend to get idolised, put on a pedastal and then discarded when the honeymoon is over and they respond to her unfavourably. There's definitely a lot of narc-like traits there.

I'd love to think this is the guy that will show her a healthy relationship, shine a light on her own and the family's dysfunction, but I've given up tbh. I can't make her see what she's unwilling to see, especially when I get caught in the crossfire. And the truth is, she had different parents to me. She has my mother's undivided attention, my father will never upset any apple cart, she's gotten all the financial support and has held the family ransom to her emotions for decades. It's a toxic role for her too, but she's got a lot more to lose in seeing it. You know?

What is your "independent" sister's view of you, as her more outspoken sibling? I will admit I have so much resentment and bitterness towards GC sibling for the way I've suffered through the favouritism, I work on it constantly in therapy because boy do I not want to live like that.

I’m sorry you have been through that too. It’s so suffocating, isn’t it?
It’s like there is no escape, they will always find a way.

This resonates with me too. I was hardworking in school, worked a part time job on top at her place of work that she forced me to take. I was literally doing 7 day weeks with no rest, she would even sign me up for over time shifts if I had a rare day off, while being a part-timer herself. I used to occasionally go out about once a month with my friends and would have a max of 4 drinks. Part of her smear campaign was telling people I was an out of control, lazy alcoholic as a teen and that nobody knew what SHE had to put up with. It’s crazy making.

The "difficult teen" thing seems to be something common to have experienced in these families. It's ringing a lot of bells with me.

I was the "perfect, easy child" up until about 13, when I started forming my own opinions and preferences. The visual I have of me as a teen is one who gained a lot of weight, spent a lot of time in her room and hated school, hated the world. But looking back as an adult is eye opening. Tthat was also the age that my older sibling suffered a nervous breakdown / psychotic break in a really traumatising way (I watched her lose her mind, get violent with me in the car and be sectioned). I got no support with that, my mother basked in her own denial, my Dad completely dissociated and school was awful because friends kept ditching me, other classmates would ask me what was going on with my sister, who was landed into the same class as me after a stint in the psychiatric unit.

So, being a "difficult teen" was actually being an incredibly traumatised child, isolated child, expected to deal with a lot of heavy sh1t on my own. So I spent my time in my room, gave up all of my hobbies, started comfort eating. As a parent is that not a kid you are worried about? It's shocking to me now that instead of picking up on red flags, I got shamed, scapegoated and made to feel like any help I needed was too much. To this day my mother will tell stories about the pre 13 year old me who was "so good at piano", "do you remember all the tennis tournaments you won?" etc, and pretend that whole teenage period never happened.

I think the natural and developmentally appropriate need teens have to separate from their parents and become their own person is a real threat to a toxic parent. Because that kid can't be controlled anymore, and any differentiation is viewed negatively.

I’m starting to have major second thoughts about my relationship and it’s keeping me up at night. I don’t feel I can do anything about it as we now have a child together. My own family was emotionally dysfunctional due to my mums trauma and abandonment but she wasn’t narcissistic. My MIL is and after listening to all your stories I’m really worried. It going to be like this forever, forever the scapegoat. I don’t like the way I feel around it, the jealous feelings I get. My partner will never see it, he is happy his brother is promoted so well, he thinks his brother deserves it. Whilst he lives with a hoarding disorder. I’m not sure I want to live like this, tiptoeing around his family for the sake of our relationship.

@Happyfarm It is very hard. The thing is because you have a child together there will always be those invisible strings tying you to your MIL now through your child. If you walked away that won’t change, the contact with her would just go through your DH instead and you will lose control of it. I know that’s probably not what you want to hear, but it’s the reality.
As well as my family of origin being a narcissistic dynamic (NC with), my in-laws (LC with) are the same, and with it comes a hatred of women coming into the family. So I understand how hard it is.
The difference for me is my DH can see it’s all wrong, it must be harder when yours doesn’t and thinks it’s all ok.

Sorry I'm just catching up with the thread.

Yes SIL does know I'm non contact and knows a lot about my childhood and DB'S childhood. DB is LC and has issues from childhood too. Yes, I agree and I think I need to enforce not discussing DM. To be honest I still find this hard to do.

Thank you all for posting, this thread is heartbreaking. So many people broken by dysfunction and these horrific families.

I had the revers of this. Dm has a huge chest and I developed early (my gm gave me one of her old bras when i was at primary school and then used to buy me like bra type tops to wear under my clothes). She never bought me a bra until I was about 16 and then it was a B cup, I was an E. She didn't buy me any knickers either as a child or rather very few pairs. I don't know where she thought I'd get underwear from. My children has an incredible amount because of this.

I remember her once telling me that her husband (not my dad) had commented how pretty I was but it is a shame I have a scar on my chin as this makes me accessible to boys who wouldn't normally consider me. I was two when I got that scar. My mum is incredibly vain. I don't think he actually said that, I think she just said he did.

@VWSC3 Im not looking for sympathy with my story (like his mum has said), I’m trying to heal in an environment that is just keeping me sick. 12 years I was married to an angry narc who hurt me physically, mentally and emotionally. Then a 3 year court battle, lost my home and all my things, he took all my jewellery etc. I’ve managed to re get a home and many of things I’ve lost but I’ve done it all off my own steam and I’m knackered. I need some loving support. I don’t need this family. I don’t need to feel completely invisible. It would be easy if he wasn’t close but they are all enmeshed and I didn’t see it soon enough. My self esteem was shattered by my ex and it’s so hard to re-build it in this environment. I have been horrible to myself these past couple of years. I thought they didn’t like me because I am faulty, Im an abuse survivor, I have autoimmune conditions from this, perhaps Im not liked because I'm too damaged. They got me looking at myself again like my ex. I know it’s not me know and it’s them but still I want loving people who support us and make us feel proud. I don’t think I can live like this again because even grey rock and ignoring takes mental energy and I have so little.

@Happyfarm It is utterly exhausting, and yes, you are a survivor to have gone through so much.
I also have autoimmune illnesses likely caused by my childhood. It’s like we are doubly punished.
Does your partner understand how the situation with his family is triggering you? Have you had a long relationship?
If you feel like walking away is what you need to do for your mental health, that’s what you should do. You need to really consider what that will look like though. Would you be comfortable with your child visiting your in-laws without you? Would it be enough that you didn’t see them, but you still heard about them from your child?

I get stuck on the unfairness. Like yeah I get it it’s not my fault BUT I am the one who’s ill, I’m the one living with all the mistakes and the fall out. I have tested the water with my partner (5 years) and there is no understanding on his side. His parents are completely normal, he is completely brainwashed. I am the one from the abusive marriage, if anyone I’m the wrong one.

I know what will happen if I leave because I have to deal with my daughter who has contact with her father now. Once a child and a narc is involved you pretty much fcuked! I know it’s better for me to l stay and do damage control but it’s causing me damage and it’s definitely making my fatigue worse. I can’t seem to stop his parents triggering all the wounds I have. I need peace. I hate having to live a life in reaction to them. I want to grow and heal with people who see me and want to see us all succeed. I don’t think I’m strong enough for his family.

I love that you've overcome that! That's healing right there. 🤗

For me - and it's something I still struggle with - it's being allowed to like my friends, to like people and see the good in them. My mother 👹 didn't like us having friends and we'd have to 'pay' for seeing them by criticising them - saying they were stupid or common, that their mothers kept a dirty house (she preened herself on her cleanliness), that they were allowed to eat sweets (she preened herself on being skinny and food denial)... we had to bring home the dirt, and she'd eat it up...

Now I love to see goodness in people, to 'forgive' their imperfections, to not judge someone by their weight or their looks as she did... But I do have to fight the idea that, if someone likes me, there 'must be something wrong with them'... 😠

What you are saying resonates so much. I also have a need for peace and feel exhausted. It’s such a small thing to want - peace, but it’s the one thing most of us on this thread are deprived of.
If he knows the situation with his family is hurting you and thinks you are wrong to feel hurt and uses your past as a reason for it, then he is part of the problem. It doesn’t make it easier to deal with DHs family because he sees the problem with them, but it makes it feel less lonely IYSWIM.
There isn’t any straightforward answer with people like this, but all you can do is trust what your gut is telling you.

I think it does make it easier because my partner tells me about what they all talk about (mostly the things his brother has done) he wants to visit them, they ask us to dinner and he wants to go. All the stress of saying no is on me. He has inertia towards them all the time not realising I’m sitting there being ignored, feeling terrible. He will pick them in a us me situation. My partner who is supposed to be part of my safe world is not safe. 😔

@happyfarm I'm so sorry for what youre going through. You're in such a difficult situation. You deserve the safety and peace that you crave so much. You've been through too much abuse.

It feels like a double whammy of triggers for you, not just with narc inlaws which of course is going to trigger your PTSD. But then a partner who's so entrenched in his own denial, and so there is no safety or protection for you. I can't even imagine the mental torture of that. My instinct is to protect yourself at all costs, you are an abuse survivor and your healing and your child's safety is #1. Your narc MIL doesn't exist in a vacuum and eventually she will emotionally abuse your child too, if it's not happening already. I don't know if that means leaving your partner, taking a temporary separation so you can get to a place of psychological safety, or enforcing strong non-negotiables with him. Perhaps an immediate thing you can do is refuse to ever set foot in MIL's House again. If she wants a visit, she can make one to your home herself (with my own NMum, she's on much better behaviour out of the family home).

Are you in counselling? My immediate thinking is couples counselling is pretty necessary if there's any chance of salvaging your relationship. As an abuse survivor, you simply cannot be with someone who doesn't understand your history and the dangers to your mental health when you're in any family dynamic that violates you.

I'm so sorry. My DH saved me and initiated my healing journey through creating so much safety and unconditional love and protection for me. You really do deserve that too.

@wonderingwonderingwondering honestly I’m on the edge of loosing my cool and telling his mum to just fcuk off and then I’ll just deal with the fall out. I know she doesn’t have all the family fooled. I’m finding it harder and harder to sit and play this stupid game. The other day I almost just blurted out why do you come and visit us but sit and talk about your other son, have you that little interest in us. I doubt I’m going to be able to keep my cool for much longer as I’m fed up of this situation. I don’t want to hear the shit they will throw my way because I’m not sure I’m strong enough mentally to let it not sink in. I get extremely triggered being told I’m crazy because there have been times when I was married that I wished I’d go to bed and never wake up, I’ve been crazy and have the t-shirt but don’t need to be reminded.

I don’t know about anyone else but I’m extremely conflict avoidant. I hate raised voices and looks in people’s eyes, I freeze. I’ll do anything to avoid conflict but then I really at the same time want to get out what I want to. It leads me to fawn. There is also no point in getting in arguments with narcs at the same time.

Does anyone else struggle with feeling and behaving like a scapegoat in other avenues in their life?

This is something that I'm really noticing at the moment. Probably because I've been in denial about the scapegoating for a long time. The dynamic was more one of ignoring and gaslighting, an expectation that I would never be the priority or focus in family situations, rather than active emotional abuse. Though it has been that at times, particularly when I called out the dynamic, tried to talk to anyone in the family about how actively damaging they are to me. My therapist said My role is either parenting others, or being scapegoated when I don't comply with that or think/ behave differently.

Things I struggle with as an adult:

• Extreme defiance, particularly with figures of authority. My most recent job was in leadership, and I really struggled with that position and mindset. I got into tense situations with my distrust of leadership, feeling "separate" from them, strongly disagreeing with strategy decisions etc. DH jokes about how much I disagree with him often just for the sake of it, and how the way to motivate me to do something is to tell me I CANT do it.

• Distrust in all of my relationships (except DH). I inherently expect friends to lose interest in me, or bosses to be frustrated by me, I've struggled to make or maintain friendships a lot over the years.

• I can feel inferior to people, like their way is the "right" way and I must comply with that. On reflection, a lot of my career success can be attributed to working for toxic managers who I felt I had to "prove" myself to (much like how my mother conditioned me)

• An inherent lack of belonging. I've lived in three different countries and 5 cities since leaving my hometown. Since getting married, I feel a bit more settled but I inherently struggle with feeling like I've put roots down. That'd affected my ability to invest in property long time. After a certain amount of time anywhere, I get itchy feet and feel a pull towards moving again

Can anyone relate?

It's such a catch 22 isn't it. Say anything and you're "crazy" or "paranoid", keep the status quo and you get left with all the suffering and pain. You can't win.

I'm in an era of no longer being willing to internalise other people's cr@p. I've sat quietly in dysfunction and chaos for long enough, letting everyone else feel good about themselves while my mental health was disintegrating. My biggest trigger is being ignored, being invisible. I have a whole body response to it. Just this year I had to stop visiting point blank because of it. There's been a host of health idsues connected to it. I confronted my mother. She gaslit me, didn't remember, her intentions were good, all the usual stuff. Fair enough. I just stopped calling. Stopped responding. Stopped visiting.

Whatever has happened in that, she seems to have gotten the point that this relationship is not going to work in the current guise. She calls me every Friday (just an hour ago this week). She's stopped talking about GC sister. She asks me questions about myself. She's stopped shaming me for recent life decisions that she doesn't agree with. She still talks about inane crap, but the message seems to have been received that this relationship is on a knife edge and she's going to have to change her approach if she ever wants to see me again.

No time to post but this thread is on my mind. Just wanted to pop on here and send you all hugs. I'm so sorry for everybody's pain - none of you deserve it.

@wonderingwonderingwondering I can't quite believe you're in this situation - you're being so incredibly generous on this thread and showing yourself to be a good person. I'm glad you've got so many good things going on.

Keep travelling, being true to yourselves and being free, everybody. And you're not alone in your grief.

You sound like my husband who had a narc mother... gotta run but can say that. The struggle with authority, the restlessness, feeling inferior

That's so incredibly kind of you, thank you @almondmilk123 . It's certainly not how I feel a lot of the time. Sorry your husband has a similar experience and similar symptoms. I hope he's got the support and love he needs, I'm sure your insight / empathy and emotional intelligence has been really healing for him x

Oh @wonderingwonderingwondering what you describe is spot on. Only now in my early 40s I realise that nobody on the planet has it all figured out. I thought everyone but me had, and so I always just assumed that what others think, do, how they operate...it must all make sense and so there is something wrong with me and I must improve, get better, to obtain their approval. Played this out in the workplace many times.

I'm only just starting to get my parents off the pedestal. They are parents by biology, but not more, and they do not have a clue. The other day I was people watching and just thought 'basically, none of them have a clue. they are all just trying to figure it out'.