October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

This is interesting what's playing out here. It's like being back with my relatives. Zero accountability on your part (your posts have been removed by the way) and total failure to see that you made assumptions about the intentions of a stranger on the internet, then accused them of all sorts of things and then you justify it in the name of the greater good ('defending the thread and it's posters'. My arse).

That's right, I didn't ignore what I disagreed with. Simply because I still felt able to provide a measured response without getting personal. I try to walk away if not.

nearlylostmysight we obviously don't know what the truth of the matter is but I'm seeing discord between your and your DD viewpoint. You say you gave her love and stability during childhood, she says you ruined her childhood. That's more than a minor disagreement of opinions.

One thing that won't get you anywhere is trying to convince her that you're right and she's wrong. Is that what you were planning when asking her for specific examples? All that would achieve is to hurt her more and damage your relationship further. You've sent emails saying it all from your perspective, why? She's e-mailed you about her hurt, why is your response to ignore that part and say it from your perspective? That's why she's said you'll never understand, she's literally been trying to tell you and you're not hearing her.

If you are "that mother" then I'm guessing that would make her the Golden Child. I'm not 100% sure what that's like but I think it involves feeling pressured to be whatever the parent wants you to be and also perhaps being "spoilt", for want of a better word, showered in affection for giving parents what they want. Maybe that creates an expectation that you owed her? IDK. Being the GC does mess a person up though, it's not a good thing any more than any other role in a dysfunctional family is.

She doesn't have to give you specifics though for you to start seeing things from her perspective. You can examine your own behaviour in therapy. My own parents would probably say they had no idea why, if I go NC, and act like they're the victim and I'm the big bad wolf doing a nasty thing. Fact is they do know, if they care to look at themselves. I mean, they were there during my childhood, doing what they did. And now in my adulthood, doing what they're doing.

I just wanted to say that I realise that I really did drop onto this thread with my issues and have not really given anything back to others. But, honestly writing it down and having replies really did make a massive difference to me. I hope that soon I will have the insight to help others. On a lighter note am wondering what size beef to order for Christmas as will not need a large one if there are less of us!

i like it! looking on the bright side ! 😁

@nearlylostmysight any response that involves telling your daughter she is wrong, her experience is not the reality and requesting her to "prove" herself with specific examples is going to increase the gap in trust between you both and push her away further.

I gave my mother examples and she tore them apart, saying that timeline didn't work as (sister) wasn't working at X place when I lived in Y country. The ones she didn't dispute, she "doesn't remember" and / or "that was never my intention" or her feelings at that time were XYZ and I should forget my own pain and acknowledge hers.

I stopped talking to her about anything of any substance at that stage, and we talk about the weather or the neighbours now, about once a month.

If you really want to salvage your relationship with your daughter, tell her you're sorry you made life so hard for her, and find a therapist to unpack your own trauma with while giving her space. It won't be easy or a guarantee of anything, but it's the only way to give you a shot at understanding and respecting her. The fact that you've displayed blatant favouritism and preferential treatment of her vs her siblings tells me you have a lot of work to do on your own trauma and perception of things. Favouritism destroyed me from the inside out and I have a horribly complicated relationship with my siblings as well as my mother because of it.

Thanks @almondmilk123. This was really well articulated and I relate so much to your experience.

Is your complicated relationship with the self reliant older sibling? And if so, what are the mistakes you say she has made but will not acknowledge? How is your relationship with mentally ill sibling? And with your parents?

I got glorified for my self reliance too, which was in reality a trauma response that felt safe, my parents had a dysfunctional relationship and my mother took her stress and overwhelm out on everyone. I got labelled "quiet", "easy" "don't have to worry about her", when in fact that was deep distress and overwhelm rendering me effectively voiceless. The environment was deeply oppressive and unsafe for me psychologically.

I resonate so much with your sense that things weren't right. I knew very early that my mentally ill older sister had descended beyond any help, I was a witness to the psychosis and tantrums and chaos. I knew I had lost my sister. The rest of the family lived in denial for a good decade.

I also sensed when my younger sister's personality was becoming disordered. She went from being my sweet, if somewhat chaotic younger sister to being completely self absorbed and self entitled, turning on friends and boyfriends constantly, projecting her own misgivings onto others and frequent emotional volatility and manipulation when anyone attempted to tell her no or call her on her behaviour. Then I had parents in the middle who effectively enabled her abuse and dysfunction and labelled it "not getting involved." It's jarring to look back as an adult and realise how alone and isolated I've felt my whole life, because I was so alone and unsupported as a child.

@NearlyLostMySight can you look up the account fiftiesrediscovery on tiktok? It's a mother of three adult sons, who I believe all are or have been NC with her.

She's the most reflected I have come across. She'd be a good example to follow as to how to navigate it when your adult children start talking about their negative childhood experience and set boundaries. Plus she's putting in her own work to understand and deal with her trauma.

I came back here to say - I have on many occasions commented on other peoples posts on here.
When I posted the second post, I was desperate to talk to someone; it wasn't intended to piss anyone off I genuinely needed to share it. I didn't sleep until 4am, going over and over the conversation.

I've been posting on stately homes for a couple of years, just under a different name. It a place I come back to time and time again because everyone here shares the same pain & it's comforting to know I'm not going crazy.

Can I ask is it common and does anyone else at times struggle with a firm sense of identity? Over the past couple of years I have pulled away from people pleasing. I got so fed up trying to get people to like me. But without this I sometimes struggle to have a firm grip of exactly who I am. I worry I am wrong and that I will upset people. I am also terrified of being alone but I don’t behave OTT about it or manipulate or anything like I’ve read with conditions such as BPD.

Struggling again but not actually convinced that it's not shifting hormones and insomnia related as it keeps happening.

I keep thinking about "What If'" and then I remember a bad memory and a good memory. Oddly I'm remembering more things, triggered off by some mementos found in the loft.

Could I have reacted differently to my Parents and sibling?
Why do they still continue to deflect, ignore and refuse to acknowledge everything that happened?
Is this why it's so difficult for me to make friends?
Why didn't they listen to me?
Why didn't they take me seriously?
Is it me after all? Parents and sibling seems happy as a unit in their own.
Why is my sibling everything they've ever wanted and not me?

Nothing major has happened today, only that when my Parents and I were talking, I was erased from a story that I actually was quite a big part of. Even when I corrected them, they said I was remembering it differently. In the end, I just decided to let It be. I'm drained from it all.

I'm also worrying about their health and decline. It's already happening.
Will I be able to cope with the expectation of caring for them and the fallout from me saying I can't physically do it. Will I be able to cope with the guilt?

I'm probably just feeling sorry for myself and it'll pass. Sorry to blurt this all out.

@Happyfarm i do not worry about being alone but I do feel very all at sea about who I am. I think it shakes you to the core because you think you are nice, you try and make people happy but somehow a person sees you differently and then lets you know. It really rocks the sense of true self, am I actually nice or am I actually a really nasty person but I just did not know it, but others can see it all the time. It is a horrible feeling.

@JustLaura I think that about siblings and then I remember that they have literally created and trained the sibling. These golden children have never developed an identity of their own. They are completely trapped by what I think is like an invisible umbilical cord. Parents need attention and sibling needs approval and they are trapped. Sibling thinks they are amazing because they get all the attention not understanding it’s cost them their autonomy. Who we are wasn’t and isn’t important to them so we carry that feeling around I believe.

Yes I often ponder if I’m a narcissist and have taken some quiz’s, perhaps it explains why my mum, ex H and now MIL treat me so badly, perhaps they knew I was one.

I'm like this too. I took have taken quizzes. As soon as I do something that remotely reminds me of my mother I get stuck. Totally paralysed and try to find the answer if I'm like her or not. Like I have to ask a colleague at work to do something a certain way and it reminds me how nothing for my mother was ever right and good enough and everything had to be her way. Then I wonder if I'm like her or what's the difference and just feel great shame.

Narcs and people pleasers and many of the personality disorders and probably most mental health conditions seem to boil down to shame it seems. I think I was an ND girl who never knew and I was ashamed of myself for not being like everyone else. I’ve always had this feeling. Backed up by my mum and ex and now my In-laws now. I have to keep telling myself that being a bit different is not shameful. If people can’t see the inherent good in me and my quirky little very open and honest self then so be it. I find a lot of the NT world is to fake and wear masks and I come in without my mask as I don’t have one and I get hurt, I’ve no mask and no armour.

@Happyfarm , @Twatalert
Sorry, another lurker/constant reader.
You do know that one of the best indicator of being a narcissistic ( apart from the reaction to bring told No) is wondering whether you might actually be one ?
Because a true narcissist has zero self awareness, and wouldn't even think to wonder.

Ps condolences on your troubles with your extended family. My MIL is a bully. After 25 years of being expected to put up with her behaviour, I stopped visiting 1+ years now. 25 years of H using me as a 'meat shield', and the ensuing hurt and confusion. She doesn't care. Less dilution of contact with relatives of da blud.
ALL her children were raised to be enablers, and I was trained by my own Mommy Dearest to kowtow. H has 2 step grandchildren now, who he loves. MIL and co won't even acknowledge them. Their loss, our gain. Children aren't daft. M favoritised my siblings. It scarred me, the invisible eldest one servant . 'Luckily' it also enabled me to stay on the periphery, and now I'm able to have a relationship of kinds with most ( I do know that when not needed I'll be dropped again, maybe, but hey ho)

@KeeponReading oh Jesus 25 years….Im only on 5 and have withdrawn to basic hello. My body physically won’t let me go near them because they make me feel so shit. My partner has no idea. I worry if I open my mouth it will cause this me against her issue that I can’t be doing with so I fake it and we hardly see them anyway. I have promised myself I will stand up to her comments in the future when they happen. Now I have to remind myself that there is no point in worrying about loosing people that you never had anyway.

@Twatalert I just wanted to say I like your name and what you said about how this thread works.

@Twatalert and @Happyfarm I do relate to not being sure who I am. Even apparently healthy people with happy families have those moments, so why wouldn't we have it worse? My sickest sister is BPD-autistic and good lord I have that inside me too, although it doesn't dominate in the way it does her. Sometimes I feel like I am her.

I think you have to be curious about it and willing to explore and look at your own ugliness. But that is no panacea because then your family - who won't do that - are even more enraging.

The last incident with my family left me repeating the phrase 'i'm losing my sense of reality'. I was sobbing through the night and just felt like i was blowing in the wind, and I should never speak to them again.

Or was I was just imagining it all and being hysterical?

What is real?

@almondmilk123 when I left my ex husband about 6 months after the cognitive dissonance almost destroyed me. I’d never felt so mentally unwell and I thought I was going to loose grip of myself, it’s bloody awful. I shut down and all I could do was focus on the things I saw with my eyes. Like that’s a tree, this is where I work etc. Nothing was real anymore. That’s got to be the worst thing that only people who have experienced it will understand. You don’t make yourself question and you don’t make yourself mentally unwell.
Somewhere along the line someone has done something over and over to get us to ignore our reality and believe theirs, it’s the worst abuse of all and the physical I have got over much easier.

I think in my life currently it’s like a pendulum has swung the other way and any sense that someone is trying to change my perception and I am triggered to fight flight. It needs to settle.

Oh crikey that’s me with the self reliance . I’ve mentioned this before but mine was very proud that I always brought messages and instructions home from school perfectly and other parents would know to ask me as I listened (was anxious and petrified of getting into trouble) and my mum speaks with fondness that I’d be sick in the night ie vomiting as a child but would just sort myself out and go back to bed not bothering them. Well yes because the night was when the fighting and the arguments were worse because they’d be drunk or they might be having sex (my mum had been previously quite clear that when on holiday and they said they weee going for a lie down after lunch and made me come with them and sit in the next room that they were going to have „sexual intercourse“ so of course I didn’t dare go to their bedroom.would you not be worried your child didn’t ask for help when sick?

@wonderingwonderingwondering

Is your complicated relationship with the self reliant older sibling?

Relationships with both of them are complicated in a way as I'm sure you can imagine. But middle sister is violent and delusional so in that sense its simple - NC. But eldest self-reliant sibling, yes, very complex, we were best friends, hand in glove, for years and years.

And if so, what are the mistakes you say she has made but will not acknowledge?

It started after we both had kids, both boys. She went first, mine came a year later. Hers would hit and bully mine and she couldn't acknowledge it or do anything about it. In fact it was 'poor my son' all the way. My son is diagnosed autistic but we didn't know that at the time. But I knew, I knew he was vulnerable etc. From there it arose that I couldn't talk to her about ANY difficult aspects of our relationship and as more problems emerged, the upset and pain - to both of us - got worse. She says talking is not good as it's a 'powder keg' that will erupt. I know she's traumatised (much as you describe with your self-reliance being a trauma response - that hit hard with me) but she won't have it, everything is the best it can be, she cannot tolerate regret. So i kind of go along with the idea that she's not traumatised. So at her own estimation, if she's not traumatised, then please behave more normally! That doesn't work of course. But recently I've realised she will admit to being traumatised by her son nearly dying in the 24 hours after birth and that this is the trojan horse by which we can allow her trauma to enter the conversation as the key to unlocking a lot of the sticking points. Trouble is, it's gone too far and I don't want to disrepsect her boundaries by forcing a convo.

How is your relationship with mentally ill sibling? NC

And with your parents? Mum was an incredible empath but was v weak so I used to get frustrated with her. She is now dead. Dad is benign medical psychopath - looked after premature babies and was great at that, utterly shit at complex, highly strung daughters with complex inner lives. Don't think he knows how to love us. Never really gave a shit about us, apart from how it reflected on him.

How is your relationship with your v sick sister? How is she now?

How is your younger sister now? Does she think the family is okay? Is she mentally ill too would you say? My 'less ill' sister is at least as ill as me I would say.

How is your relationship with your parents now?

I got labelled "quiet", "easy" "don't have to worry about her", when in fact that was deep distress and overwhelm rendering me effectively voiceless. The environment was deeply oppressive and unsafe for me psychologically. I really relate to this.

@Happyfarm
Me again !
I think that being a member of a dysfunctional family also makes you 'different'. Because you're not raised to realise it's not a normal way to be. You feel confusingly ashamed and , if in a more subservient role, more prone to attracting potentially unhealthy friends and partners. I certainly did.

A thought ....which might be similar to some people with ND ?? Ie. Re a possible difficulty in seeing any red flags. I had also not learned to 'mask' my difference and ended up oversharing with potential friends . Now I'm quite wary of even trying to make them. Very sad. Feels like back to the overanalysing of yore. But that's OK.

Ps. My H is ND. Its been a learning curve. Luckily there's such a lot online nowadays, about everything. He can't tolerate my trying to talk about stuff . Or not staying in my previous role ( which worked for him). I used to feel a lot of confusion in my younger days...about everything. I thought it must be me.
(I now realise that my ex is ND. My DS , and his family. My dad (?) , and at least 2 siblings, plus families. Two have diagnosed ADHD. And I have CPTSD, which apparently I'm not allowed to say. Wotever). Interesting times.

@KeeponReading I thought my partner currently was Autistic. My daughter is ND and receiving help at school. She is the daughter of my ex and the ND could be from him or me. My mum I think probably is also. Not sure about my partners mum. She could very well be undiagnosed and learned some not so very nice ways to deal with it. It’s the invalidation I can’t get past and the passive aggressive ignoring, it’s a major trigger for me because I’ve had just about enough invalidation. The MiL feels extremely childish in her tactics but it just irritates my demons enough to cause issues for me. I’m not sure if my partner is ND and she is or if she just invalidated him out of his feelings and empathy. He has a tendency to hoard things. I get the impression he, his identity was ignored and he became self sufficient so feels he needs to keep hold of everything incase he needs it and it brings him a sense of safety.

I'm sorry that's how things went when you and your sister had kids. That sounds so painful. Neither of us are there yet, but I often wonder what that dynamic would do to our already dysfunctional relationship. This sister is GC and the enmeshment / obsession my mother has for her is out of control. She's the child that allows my mother to not question her own parenting. Mum is obsessed with status / big careers, and even though mum has one child dependent on the state with such severe mental health issues, and another that doesn't talk to her - youngest daughter is a doctor and shares everything with her. So it cancels the rest out.

It sounds like your sister is deeply avoidant and steeped in toxic positivity about her childhood. It's perhaps easier to label a difficult birth as trauma because that's undeniable, and dare I say a slightly easier subject to embrace despite the distress of it. Lots of mothers can relate, no relationships get damaged in talking about it, there's less complexity to it. My younger sister is incredibly avoidant about anything that does scream "happy childhood nothing to see here". She stormed off on me once when we were both abroad and didn't talk to me for months because I dared to raise the topic of my older disabled sibling. Our father was with us and he was happy to finally have that conversation, but she killed it dead with her behaviour. She also talks relentlessly about how "amazing" our parents were and "how much they've done for us", which is the opposite of my experience of them. I think my biggest feeling around her is one of discomfort and fear, because she's too fragile to handle any vulnerable conversation and because of that blind spot, she can't see her own current dysfunctional behavior either. The constant boyfriends, the dumped friends, the obsession with wealth and status. I've been in therapy for years and have made so many life changes through healing, and it feels like an assault on my healing to be around her sometimes. But then, like you, there have been the good times. There was a time when I felt almost maternal towards her, because being in that house when our older sister was descending into deep mental illness, with parents who hated each other, was bloody hard.

As to your questions. That older sister never recovered. There's been multiple diagnoses, a lot of anti psychotic meds and she lives part time in a care home, she's with my parents from Thurs - Sun. They're in their 70s now so obviously that's not sustainable. I have a VLC relationship with parents. Any honest conversation I've attempted has been met with denial, gaslighting, triangulation, and the weirdest thing for me now is their "closeness" in their old age. I see my father as a victim of my mother too, she's got definite narc traits and is prone to scapegoating and criticising him, I would love a closer relationship with him but everything I do / say goes right back to her, they operate as one unit. So VLC is the only way to maintain any kind of mental health of my own. I rarely call or visit.

My younger sister was diagnosed with depression some years back, I'm pretty sure there's more going on there. I've got ADHD and I feel she is an extreme case. I think ND runs deep in my family, but I've got parents who don't "believe" in mental illness, particularly if someone is "high functioning" which is what myself, mother and younger sister would be. I've spent my life making things "look good on paper" again, as a trauma response.