Everything is destroyed - relationship with my family, my husband, my friends. *Mentions suicide* Edited by MNHQ

[almondmilk123]

Complex and long story.

THE BACKGROUND

There is autism in my family, diagnosed in my kids generation, undiagnosed previous to that. I am one of three sisters. One is severely mentally ill, BPD/autism spectrum, she is violent, no partner, no kids, supported by our dad. My other sister and I have had more normal lives.- she has no partner but 2 lovely kids, I have a husband and kids.

My 'well' sister and I both had sons a year apart. Hers was a year older. He would often hit my son and generally seemed to dislike him. I got upset, but my husband got even more upset. My sister dismissed it and told me it was my fault for inadequate supervision. Over time as the boys got bigger, the behaviour from her son got worse and the situation became intolerable. The two boys got on better, but he was still hitting my son, pulling his hair.

I felt unable to talk to my sister because she wouldn't hear it. To be fair to her I was in my head thinking the word 'psycho' about her son but I never said it, I was much more diplomatic. Her son nearly died after birth from an infection and I believe now that she felt as if my criticisms of his behaviour was somehow a threat to his life. I didn't fully appreciate how traumatised she was.

My husband is a mildly narcisisstic drama queen from a very messed up family. He has many good qualities and he's not an outright villain but I'm still trying to work out where the line lies. He got so ramped up about the situation that I felt completely trapped between him and my sister. He got very angry with me about not taking on my sister and putting her above our son. He had a point.

My sister wasn't listening, my husband wasn't listening.

When my husband decided we needed to move out of London, I went for it. I thought it would put distance between my son and his cousin, and ease all the tensions.

My sister was devastated that I left London. Very angry. We had horrific rows about all sorts. She would close down conversation about the problem calling it a 'powder keg'.

After we left London, my husband took it upon himself to work away from home and ended up living with my dad for a bit. My husband is very entrepreneurial and capable of earning money but has put us through a lot of financial strain, also just general upheaval (we moved house 6 times in 7 years).

My dad's anger at my husband's hijinks had been building up for a while and now it exploded in a terrible row. He couldn't see why my husband would take me out of London then return to live with him, my dad. I could see where my dad was coming from but his rage wasn't helpful, it was devastating.

Meanwhile son was being diagnosed as autistic - I believe this was partly why my nephew's behaviour towards him distressed me so much. Perhaps my nephew's behaviour was normal, but my son wasn't normal, he was more vulnerable than most kids his age. That wasn't my sister's fault and explains why she couldn't see it from her side. I didn't even know he was autistic so couldn't explain it that way. Should she have tried a bit harder to understand my point of view? I don't know.

My husband returned home and got a good job for a while, then quit that to do lots of amazing projects with interesting people that didn't really pay and put us under terrible financial strain.

I should earn my own money but I have been bullied in the workplace and fired many times and am probably on the spectrum. I would like to work - I used to work very very hard when I was young, I held down two jobs at times - but I have specific work-related trauma. The only work I like is hospitality but I'm 53 and my joints are caving in from the menopause.

THE INCIDENT

November 2022 I am visiting my elderly, immobile mother in law, and I'm bringing my daughter because my mother in law loves her. I plan to stay over with my dad as he's on the route. We've been getting on well, i've been loving hearing his stories of late, although he's clearly losing his memory. He doesn't give much of a shit about whether or not he sees my daughter but he is perfectly sweet with her. Thats just him, by now I've begun to suspect he's on the spectrum.

My dad tells me not to bring my daughter that night becuase he wants to talk to me about his will.

I say i must bring her because my mother in law will be disappointed not to see her.

My dad isn't really clear what the issue is. He's talked to me about his will before - its usually some phenomenally boring legal tweak. Or something about my mentally ill sister and how the will will deal with her.

I call my 'well' sister who is the main carer for my dad - what's going on? She says its fine, just go up there with my daughter.

I get there. My dad takes me into his study and tells me he's putting me on special measures in his will, the same special measures he's put in place for my severely mentally ill sister. It's because he worries my husband will spend all the money. He's very worried about our children and wants his inheritance to go to them. He thinks DH will spend it all. We will have to speak to lawyers to get any money from the inheritance. Even for small things. They will block it if they think it's not sensible expenditure.

I was worried about my DH spending the inheritance too, so I planned to put a deposit down on property for them in their name, which we can rent out until they need it. My DH is very keen on that too thankfully.

My dad says we are not allowed to buy property, it's a very dangerous way to invest money. This sounds outlandish to me.

I feel like I'm falling off a cliff but then my dad brings in my 'well' sister. He says she agrees with everything, that I cannot look after various practical aspects of my own life. He tells me various things that I know she thinks - criticisms of me - but he wouldn't know if she hadn't said them to her.

At this point I feel like the walls are falling in on me but my dad doesn't seem to notice. I wonder how I'm going to explain this to my DH, who gets angry when criticised.

I get angry and distressed. I feel like I'm being fired from my family. My dad tells me I'm behaving like our severely mentally ill sister.

All this time my DD is in the house.

Somehow I get through the night, get to my mother in laws, get home. I'm streaming with tears the whole time but I don't say anything to anybody.

I'm teetotal but on Monday I buy a bottle of whiskey and tie a rope around my neck. I drive drunk to macdonalds at 3am, buy a load of burgers, eat them and vomit them up.

Husband hides the whisky, by wednesday I'm sober.

But I can't talk to my dad and my sister. That has been established. They do not understand. They do not listen. I cannot bear to experience their incomprehension. I block them.

I carry on with my life, fantasising about hanging myself but knowing I won't. I'm not that far gone. But I'm in so much pain.

THE AFTERMATH

Almost 2 years later i have tried to talk to my sister but she closes down the conversation when it gets too difficult. She says my viewpoints are extreme and she has nothing to usefully contribute. She says she doesn't understand me, and she doesn't want to talk about these things.

My friends don't understand. It's too horrible for them, too shocking, too wierd, too unlikely, too complicated. Suicidal? FFS! What now! They've never liked it when i'm in the grip of big painful feelings, and now I'm like that all the time. I edit out that side of me, but I've only been happy enough to see my best friend once since it happened.

So my friendships are dying. Not all, I have one friend having mental health and marital difficulties I feel very close to. But some very important friendships are withering.

My husband is partly the cause of all this. He's done some very stupid things around money, said some very stupid things around money to my dad. Been a drama queen, been shockingly moronic.

He's now started a successful business (touch wood) but our relationship has been under terrible strain since it happened and I'm not sure we'll ever recover.

The fact that my relationship with my husband has been so affected makes it hard to discuss the situation with my dad with wider family. They would understand strains between my dad and I (and possibly even my sister) I but I feel too ashamed to open up about my husband's part in it.

EPILOGUE

Last week was my dad's 90th. In anticipation of it I'd tried to mend bridges with him and my sister and it was going well.

The party was thrown by my sister and there was a big presentation and speeches about how marvellous he was. I only found out about that the day before and felt unable to participate.

While it was going on, I felt as if I'd been ambushed again by my sister and my dad working in cahoots against me and around me. Irrational but I guess I was traumatised by the will incident.

"What about severely mentally ill DS?" I wanted to scream while it was going on. "What about how I was tying a rope around my neck 18 months ago?"

Instead, I stood by and cheered. The day wasn't about me.

The wider family was there - 50 people.

It was like a public divorce from my father and my sister, with my whole extended family on both sides bearing witness. It was hidden, it was implied not explicit, but it was happening.

I feel numb now. I can't talk to anybody. Not anybody. Thought I'd try mumsnet.

"Your 'well' sister sounds like a bit of a cow. You sound as if you've been very understanding towards her and reflective of your own behaviour in this situation. She hasn't done that."

We don't know what her sister thinks or if she's reflected on her own behaviour - we only have OP's account of her sister's responses which, on the face of it don't seem great, but maybe her sister is frustrated because she doesn't know how to help OP?

Just to add, OP isn't being rejected by her family - quite the opposite - they are trying to protect her, even if she doesn't like the way they're trying to do it.

oh my god this ❤❤it is a thing for the more sensitive high functioning neurodiverse woman to end up in this predicament. ND people are more extreme and whilst there are some ND people who are really stubborn and insensitive there are others who are super honest, reflective and almost overly willing to be accountable.

You know the dunning-kruger effect? people who are stupid actually think they are cleverer than people who are clever. People who are clever think they're stupid.

Well I've begun to suspect that people who are genuinely reflective are never complacent, never think they're great at it, they're always looking out for their blind spot. The people who are not reflective believe they are SUPERB at reflecting.

Without wanting to get extreme, that makes for some pretty complex situations.

Brilliantly put, agree with so much of this.

And as for me being mentally unwell and needing a psychiatrist, that may be true but clearly I'm too high-functioning for anyone to funnel me in that direction. I could refer myself but I don't feel like it.

So this flashes great big warning signs of grandiose thinking. Of course you are mentally unwell: you had an absurdly over the top, impulsive, suicidal gesture vrossed with drunken binge eating and vomiting due to your perceived rejection by your family. You are ceaselessly villain hunting and blaming everyone and anything for your poor life choice of husband.

You aren't engaging with anyone who disagrees with what you've said. You've said you don't want to seek help for your own issues-- that is your choice, 100%, but if you do not do anything then you cannot expect anything to change.

I agree with @pikkumyy77 - there is a sense of self aggrandising coming through that is a classic sign of mania.

You say you could refer yourself but don’t feel like it despite being upset enough with what’s happening to post here, but are also too high functioning for anyone else to do it. I promise you if strangers on the internet can tell you need help, people in real life will.

You are in the red zone @almondmilk123. Refer yourself.

Not really, •wrongthinker*. One of the difficulties I'm having is getting perspective on my husband's role in this. I found it very helpful the poster pointing out that up until the will happened, it was all just him.

Many posters on this thread are angry with me. I guess I am reminding them of the mentally ill people in their family who have been no doubt hugely destructive and left huge scars.

I'm not exactly that person. I don't act out (the incident you mention lasted 2 days and it's never happened before or since). I behaved well at my father's 90th birthday party despite how I felt inside. I smiled, I chatted, I helped out, I brought four massive dishes of food, I hugged him and said how lovely it was to everybody.

I am equally drawn to posters like you as you remind me of people in my family who thrust me into the role of dangerous loony so shockingly, with such anger, and a wish to punish. Whilst not owning their own crazy, angry, hurtful behaviour.

I'm not saying you ARE that person, just that those are the transferences.

And I'm not lacking the ability to reflect. I am getting SO MUCH out of this thread. I'm seeing that my dad's behaviour confronted me with real problems in my marriage - all of which I must hold and own - and that was also why I spiralled the way I did.

I agree the way I reacted was extreme. That's helpful to hear. It's grounding. I'm just trying to find a foothold. I've been losing my sense of reality over this.

Yes I mustn't armchair diagnose DH.

But I feel a bit stronger about holding him to account.

I'm honestly not some kind of angry hateful type of loony. I'm a confused, in pain, lacking strength loony. I can to some extent hold onto my empathy all the way down.

Ooh but I am. See post to wrong thinker. above

It was almost 2 years ago.

I'm not manic I'm just in a lot of pain. But maybe i do need to refer myself. But I'm not suicidal right now. That was 2 years ago. So I feel I'd be making a big old fuss. Like so many people on this thread are telling me I am.

I think you have enough on your plate to warrant psychiatric support, even if you remove your dad's will from the equation: a problematic husband, a mentally unwell sister, a neurodiverse child and coping with all of that when you are neurodiverse too. That's a lot.

I wonder if in that stressed state you have misread what your sister and father have done, because I see acts of love for you?

The thought of my DD marrying someone like your husband terrifies me. Is it possible your sister reacted with anger when he moved you away because she saw it as him controlling you and isolating you from the family?

Is it possible they can see that his chaos unravels you and they worry about YOU?

Is it possible that that perception that he was isolating you seemed confirmed when your husband moved back for work?

When your father said you're like your sister, is it possible he means 'vulnerable, needing protection' rather than mentally unwell?

Is it possible you felt on the fringes of your family at your dad's party because you ARE on the fringes now, because your husband has effectively isolated you, and that was the moment you really felt the distance?

I am poor as a church mouse, but my parents have a bit of money they will leave us. I hope they spend it first because I love them. My dad has it tied up in a trust to ensure it goes to my mum, his daughters and his grandchildren. If my mum remarries, his children are protected; if I get divorced, I am protected and so are his grandchildren. If I ever had lots of money, I'd do the same for my children. I don't work and save for some unknown individual on the horizon. And certainly not for someone reckless and for whom I have zero respect.

Both your dad and sister knew this would be a blow to you, which is why your dad didn't want your DD there.

But I think they just want you and your DC safe and financially secure in the face of marriage to an unstable man. They can't 'fix' the chaos of your marriage and they probably despair at it. Only you can do that. But they can do everything they can to give you a cushion if you leave him.

I worry that the change to the will wrt divorce has undone that. Your DH sounds capable of whistling through your money while you're with him.

That means, I think, it's up to you now to protect your DC and yourself. If I were you, I'd work really hard at returning the family fold. See how your husband reacts if you do that. I'd also put in a different plan for the money that means only you have control over it and your DH can't touch it at all. I think you need to really evaluate whether this marriage is a good one, because your family's instincts might be correct.

Basically. This.

OP its possible for more than one person in a family to have narcissistic traits. Just because you identify your dh and everyone around you with a DSM’s worth of mental health conditions or personality disorders doesn’t mean you don’t also have some massive mental health/personality strategies that need attending to.

Frankly I see a lot of martyrdom, whining, self pity, histrionic behavior, and black and white thinking rather than the “nuance,” “complexity” and “shades of grey” you keep bragging about.

If you keep doing what you have done you will get what you’ve got.

You can either learn to stop obsessing about everyone else’s diagnosis and take care of your own business or you are basically stuck with this level of self pitying misery.

this is a wonderful reply. I do vaguely intuit I'm being totally over the top - everything is bad and I am helpless. YES that's how i feel. My husband doesn't help much - he kind of IS trying to drive a wedge, he encourages me to think badly of my family.

I would like to stress that my dad and sister are not these impeccable figures some people seem to think they are.

I've mentioned it earlier in the thread.

if they were, god how simple this would be.

I feel so sad for you. Could you divorce, take the children and move away? Get some good counselling/therapy?
I have had no contact with my family due to their ways which made me very ill. I had to cut off all my family 15 years ago. I gave up everyone that I knew. I expected certain people to care about how ill I was, but I was disgusted to find they didnt, however as painful as that was, I had to accept that, and it has made me so much stonger. I dont care if I am alone forever, as I know I can deal with it. No more family dramas and uncaring family. The freedom is bliss.
I have mental health issues and I am also in my 50's too. Menopause made it a hundred times worse, but I am getting better.
My ex relationship with a long term cheating ex partner is recently over.
I am now moving forward, feeling exhausted, mentally battered but happy, and I have found hope at last after a very long time of feeling suicidal because I could not see a way out.
Could you do this? Divorce, move away, forget your family apart from children, and start a new chapter in your life? Mentally you may find you improve.
I wish you well for the future.

So what if they aren’t “impeccable?”

What we are trying to tell you is that self pity will kill you. Or at any rate destroy your life. It causes you to wait around for someone else to help you, fusd over you, fix things for you.

The only grown up in this story who can help you is: YOU. You need to be very brave and ask for help because your thinking is chaotic and self centered to an unhealthy degree.

I would like to stress that my dad and sister are not these impeccable figures some people seem to think they are.

But nobody is. It's what you focus on and magnify. For example, your husband sounds really worrying, but somewhere up thread you referred to his good qualities and you defend him (I can't recall your exact words). You choose to focus on that and maybe minimise the bad.

Similarly, your dad and sister have good qualities and bad, but you're choosing to focus and inflate the bad and maybe minimise the good.

But really, who has demonstrated the greatest most tangible acts to protect you and keep you safe? Who puts you most at risk? These are the tangled strands I think you need to think through clearly - with professional help.

p.s. Your sister screaming at her kids.... unforgivable and damaging. BUT, she might at the end if her rope too and be struggling with an elderly father and a future of responsibility and worry about her two sisters and also feeling very very alone in it. Maybe ....?

Yes, my sister did see him as controlling me. She has hinted she thinks he's got coercive control issues but I have looked into it and he doesn't qualify. He did greatly remind me of a the character of a narcissistic murderer on a BBC podcast however.

this Is it possible you felt on the fringes of your family at your dad's party because you ARE on the fringes now, because your husband has effectively isolated you, and that was the moment you really felt the distance? very true.

this is a very helpful post. there is a lot for me to work through.

But I assure you my dad did not approach it in a helpful way. He made it ten times worse. He catalysed All The Problems. He did not approach me as vulnerable and needing help - i love that shit, bring it on. He came down like a hammer, it was a punishment. Also as an ambush and a conspiracy by him and my sister. Extreme? Yes, I guess. But I need to work through it somehow if I'm going to look at it more rationally.

If I were you, I'd work really hard at returning the family fold. See how your husband reacts if you do that. this is good advice. Allegedly my husband wants that.

I want to see things so clearly but it's hard.

You will have missed my points above that I think my dad never wanted any of us three sisters to have a man. All three of us have struggled - I'm the onlhy one who is married.

If it was simple that would be so great.

But there was a part of it that was my dad wanting to destroy my relationship with my husband, which he has effectively done.

If I divorce my husband, who I do actually kinda love, am I letting my dad win? I'll be single and virginal just like he wanted. Everyone seems to assume great virtue on his part. But it's not quite that simple. My mentally ill third sister is the evidence for a wider dysfunction in my family.

I could be reaching here but I've had a stab of what it might feel like, just to give you another perspective.

"I keep running up against situations in my life, I experience emotions super strongly, and then my internal reactions to those emotions include my brain creating ideas of being persecuted and unfairly treated by others, some of whom then seem to be withholding information from me.

Then I find myself not knowing who to trust, so I start furiously communicating with people and I use their responses to tell me if I am safe, or if I am a worthy person or not. When I am in this highly sensitive emotional state to be honest everything concrete in the world goes foggy and all I'm left with is the black hole of despair and I start seeking rescuers, who may or may not be available to me.

After a certain point in time, I cannot seem to rescue myself, I have to throw myself deeper into the abyss of my emotions until I totally incapacitate myself and need to be rescued by another.

Furthermore, when this process is going on, my mind always goes to the unfairness of my situation and how others are worse than me but get treated better. This sense of unfairness helps to propel me into the situation where I take actions where others can see I am in need of help.

I seem to have no options besides that, because I don't seem to be able to readily admit I am struggling as I'm afraid of that part of me. It seems if I open that door I might just end up going down the drain like a bath of water and nothing of me would be left. That's what the frightened part of me worries about. I barely even hover at that door because it's too scary. There's also another part of me that really strongly hates that sort of vulnerable feeling and tends to tell me I'm weak and stupid. I kind of like that critical voice too because at least it's 'strong' like a mean parent and seems to know what it's talking about when I'm not sure.

I don't understand this process - but I'm seeking to unpack some of that so that when confronted by situations, I can experience my emotions, notice the thoughts arising but not buy into them, while also taking action towards the sort of life I want. I want to develop other parts of myself and new ways of responding.

I'm not sure who I am when I'm not seeing myself in relation to others...that's where I get my information about myself from and I get my information from my emotions too, but now I'm wondering are those two things the best gauge of who I truly am as a person... "

yup - i see instagram reels about ND people just wanting to feel safe so editing their behaviour based on whether it gets a negative or a positive reaction from people. That's very much me. It's a shaky foundation I guess.

You are reaching, but you are totally reaching me. Good luck to you xxx

You could try calling the samaritains charity? They always listen and don't judge.

You will have missed my points above that I think my dad never wanted any of us three sisters to have a man.

I didn't miss that. But I think it's irrelevant and a distraction. Sorry. Your father might have felt that, BUT, if you'd married a stable strong supportive husband who made you happy and secure, it sounds unlikely your father would have changed his will.

The fact your husband could stay with your Dad while he was working - even after he'd moved you away - doesn't sound like your father has refused to accept a man in your life at all. He's tolerating the company of man he thinks is a bit dubious. I'm not sure my father would.

Does your husband constantly remind you that your father would not accept any man? If so, please start ignoring him because that's a gaslighting control tactic.

He did not approach me as vulnerable and needing help - i love that shit, bring it on. He came down like a hammer, it was a punishment.

Or 'tough love'..? Brutally honest...? Because other efforts to reach you hasn't stopped you being dragged around from place to place like a captive tethered horse? Think back really hard to all previous conversations your family have had with you and reframe them in the light of an honest appraisal of your husband. Was that 'this is the last thing we can do and it's important it's understood very clearly' moment? But it spiralled in ways they didn't predict?

The more you have written the more I think you need to see a diagnostic physiatrist

There are a lot of signs based on how you right.

It is very possible to be struggling mentally while still being highly intelligent & high functioning.

I think if you continue like this, you may burnout.

He was out of control, my dad. In the moment he behaved in a very grandiose manner, with absolutely zero empathy. It was all tough, and no love. I have a always been scapegoated in my family because I'm the least likely to fight back or cause trouble. It felt like he was taking a swing at me.

Having said that, what you are suggesting is, I think, also true to some extent.

I can't argue with this. if you'd married a stable strong supportive husband who made you happy and secure, it sounds unlikely your father would have changed his will.

as for this really, who has demonstrated the greatest most tangible acts to protect you and keep you safe? Who puts you most at risk? These are the tangled strands I think you need to think through clearly - with professional help. ambiguous. My husband understands me much better than my family in many ways. My dad always thrust me out into the world and expected me to cope and wasn't interested in the idea that I might be vulnerable or struggle. I've been struggling since I was a child and been totally ignored. I was desperate for help with my mental health as a teenager, I never got it, not until I paid for it myself when I was in my thirties. Then my therapist died very suddenly which didn't'help. My family could not have been less interested - they were like 'thats what you get for going to a therapist. Then suddenly now I've got a man who is a bit challenging he wants to intervene.

yes I think you're right. I need to do something.