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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Everything is destroyed - relationship with my family, my husband, my friends. *Mentions suicide* Edited by MNHQ

268 replies

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 11:07

Complex and long story.

THE BACKGROUND

There is autism in my family, diagnosed in my kids generation, undiagnosed previous to that. I am one of three sisters. One is severely mentally ill, BPD/autism spectrum, she is violent, no partner, no kids, supported by our dad. My other sister and I have had more normal lives.- she has no partner but 2 lovely kids, I have a husband and kids.

My 'well' sister and I both had sons a year apart. Hers was a year older. He would often hit my son and generally seemed to dislike him. I got upset, but my husband got even more upset. My sister dismissed it and told me it was my fault for inadequate supervision. Over time as the boys got bigger, the behaviour from her son got worse and the situation became intolerable. The two boys got on better, but he was still hitting my son, pulling his hair.

I felt unable to talk to my sister because she wouldn't hear it. To be fair to her I was in my head thinking the word 'psycho' about her son but I never said it, I was much more diplomatic. Her son nearly died after birth from an infection and I believe now that she felt as if my criticisms of his behaviour was somehow a threat to his life. I didn't fully appreciate how traumatised she was.

My husband is a mildly narcisisstic drama queen from a very messed up family. He has many good qualities and he's not an outright villain but I'm still trying to work out where the line lies. He got so ramped up about the situation that I felt completely trapped between him and my sister. He got very angry with me about not taking on my sister and putting her above our son. He had a point.

My sister wasn't listening, my husband wasn't listening.

When my husband decided we needed to move out of London, I went for it. I thought it would put distance between my son and his cousin, and ease all the tensions.

My sister was devastated that I left London. Very angry. We had horrific rows about all sorts. She would close down conversation about the problem calling it a 'powder keg'.

After we left London, my husband took it upon himself to work away from home and ended up living with my dad for a bit. My husband is very entrepreneurial and capable of earning money but has put us through a lot of financial strain, also just general upheaval (we moved house 6 times in 7 years).

My dad's anger at my husband's hijinks had been building up for a while and now it exploded in a terrible row. He couldn't see why my husband would take me out of London then return to live with him, my dad. I could see where my dad was coming from but his rage wasn't helpful, it was devastating.

Meanwhile son was being diagnosed as autistic - I believe this was partly why my nephew's behaviour towards him distressed me so much. Perhaps my nephew's behaviour was normal, but my son wasn't normal, he was more vulnerable than most kids his age. That wasn't my sister's fault and explains why she couldn't see it from her side. I didn't even know he was autistic so couldn't explain it that way. Should she have tried a bit harder to understand my point of view? I don't know.

My husband returned home and got a good job for a while, then quit that to do lots of amazing projects with interesting people that didn't really pay and put us under terrible financial strain.

I should earn my own money but I have been bullied in the workplace and fired many times and am probably on the spectrum. I would like to work - I used to work very very hard when I was young, I held down two jobs at times - but I have specific work-related trauma. The only work I like is hospitality but I'm 53 and my joints are caving in from the menopause.

THE INCIDENT

November 2022 I am visiting my elderly, immobile mother in law, and I'm bringing my daughter because my mother in law loves her. I plan to stay over with my dad as he's on the route. We've been getting on well, i've been loving hearing his stories of late, although he's clearly losing his memory. He doesn't give much of a shit about whether or not he sees my daughter but he is perfectly sweet with her. Thats just him, by now I've begun to suspect he's on the spectrum.

My dad tells me not to bring my daughter that night becuase he wants to talk to me about his will.

I say i must bring her because my mother in law will be disappointed not to see her.

My dad isn't really clear what the issue is. He's talked to me about his will before - its usually some phenomenally boring legal tweak. Or something about my mentally ill sister and how the will will deal with her.

I call my 'well' sister who is the main carer for my dad - what's going on? She says its fine, just go up there with my daughter.

I get there. My dad takes me into his study and tells me he's putting me on special measures in his will, the same special measures he's put in place for my severely mentally ill sister. It's because he worries my husband will spend all the money. He's very worried about our children and wants his inheritance to go to them. He thinks DH will spend it all. We will have to speak to lawyers to get any money from the inheritance. Even for small things. They will block it if they think it's not sensible expenditure.

I was worried about my DH spending the inheritance too, so I planned to put a deposit down on property for them in their name, which we can rent out until they need it. My DH is very keen on that too thankfully.

My dad says we are not allowed to buy property, it's a very dangerous way to invest money. This sounds outlandish to me.

I feel like I'm falling off a cliff but then my dad brings in my 'well' sister. He says she agrees with everything, that I cannot look after various practical aspects of my own life. He tells me various things that I know she thinks - criticisms of me - but he wouldn't know if she hadn't said them to her.

At this point I feel like the walls are falling in on me but my dad doesn't seem to notice. I wonder how I'm going to explain this to my DH, who gets angry when criticised.

I get angry and distressed. I feel like I'm being fired from my family. My dad tells me I'm behaving like our severely mentally ill sister.

All this time my DD is in the house.

Somehow I get through the night, get to my mother in laws, get home. I'm streaming with tears the whole time but I don't say anything to anybody.

I'm teetotal but on Monday I buy a bottle of whiskey and tie a rope around my neck. I drive drunk to macdonalds at 3am, buy a load of burgers, eat them and vomit them up.

Husband hides the whisky, by wednesday I'm sober.

But I can't talk to my dad and my sister. That has been established. They do not understand. They do not listen. I cannot bear to experience their incomprehension. I block them.

I carry on with my life, fantasising about hanging myself but knowing I won't. I'm not that far gone. But I'm in so much pain.

THE AFTERMATH

Almost 2 years later i have tried to talk to my sister but she closes down the conversation when it gets too difficult. She says my viewpoints are extreme and she has nothing to usefully contribute. She says she doesn't understand me, and she doesn't want to talk about these things.

My friends don't understand. It's too horrible for them, too shocking, too wierd, too unlikely, too complicated. Suicidal? FFS! What now! They've never liked it when i'm in the grip of big painful feelings, and now I'm like that all the time. I edit out that side of me, but I've only been happy enough to see my best friend once since it happened.

So my friendships are dying. Not all, I have one friend having mental health and marital difficulties I feel very close to. But some very important friendships are withering.

My husband is partly the cause of all this. He's done some very stupid things around money, said some very stupid things around money to my dad. Been a drama queen, been shockingly moronic.

He's now started a successful business (touch wood) but our relationship has been under terrible strain since it happened and I'm not sure we'll ever recover.

The fact that my relationship with my husband has been so affected makes it hard to discuss the situation with my dad with wider family. They would understand strains between my dad and I (and possibly even my sister) I but I feel too ashamed to open up about my husband's part in it.

EPILOGUE

Last week was my dad's 90th. In anticipation of it I'd tried to mend bridges with him and my sister and it was going well.

The party was thrown by my sister and there was a big presentation and speeches about how marvellous he was. I only found out about that the day before and felt unable to participate.

While it was going on, I felt as if I'd been ambushed again by my sister and my dad working in cahoots against me and around me. Irrational but I guess I was traumatised by the will incident.

"What about severely mentally ill DS?" I wanted to scream while it was going on. "What about how I was tying a rope around my neck 18 months ago?"

Instead, I stood by and cheered. The day wasn't about me.

The wider family was there - 50 people.

It was like a public divorce from my father and my sister, with my whole extended family on both sides bearing witness. It was hidden, it was implied not explicit, but it was happening.

I feel numb now. I can't talk to anybody. Not anybody. Thought I'd try mumsnet.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:04

Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 20:03

There is nothing to stop you wallowing in comments you agree with @almondmilk123 . Your situation will make no difference at all to our lives, because it is your situation. I'm glad I'm not in it, because your DH seems to carry on like he's a badly made firework and you go along with it.However much he appreciates your creativity, that can't compensate for stability for you and your kids.

Stop blaming the wrong people for your plight.

A wild guess - you're annoyed with someone in your life who is blaming you for their plight.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:06

Oh yes and dreamholidays thats where the comments about my thinking being 'clearly disturbed' *(or something like that) come from. NT people for whom analysing things in that way would be a genuine sign of dysregulation. But you're right, it's natural for me.

OP posts:
Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 20:06

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:58

But , blanketyre when I have tried to talk to my sister she's told me I'm completely out of line. So I'm kind of trying to work out where the line is - what's acceptable. This mumsnet thread has helped me a lot, when peole actually engage in my story, which is why I do feel impatient with the people who go all meta and say 'oh don't engage with her narratives, don't encourage her in her delusions of persecution'. That's the opposite of helpful.

Why is it important to you to know what randomers on the Internet think is acceptable?

Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 20:08

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:04

A wild guess - you're annoyed with someone in your life who is blaming you for their plight.

No, really not and try not to vent your inaccurate wrath on me. I'm not the cause of your problems.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:11

blanketyre the crowdsourcing principle. I get a cross section of opinion. It's genuinely helpful.

OP posts:
wrongthinker · 28/09/2024 20:11

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:06

Oh yes and dreamholidays thats where the comments about my thinking being 'clearly disturbed' *(or something like that) come from. NT people for whom analysing things in that way would be a genuine sign of dysregulation. But you're right, it's natural for me.

I'm audhd and from a very traumatic family background so please piss off with your assumptions and judgements. I've been fair, I've given my opinion, I haven't persecuted you or said all the shit you've claimed I've said. Try taking some responsibility for yourself. Being ND shouldn't be used as an excuse for self-involvement and lack of insight.

Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 20:13

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:11

blanketyre the crowdsourcing principle. I get a cross section of opinion. It's genuinely helpful.

So you can pick how to behave? I think you need to work on feeling those big feelings. Also not relying on an external locus of evaluation!

Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 20:15

@wrongthinker I'm afraid anyone trying to respond honestly, as you have, will not get a hearing because we're saying things that the OP is not willing to hear. Nothing anyone can do about that.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:17

blanetyre you've got me. My sense of self is not strong. But it's a neurotic not a psychotic symptom

OP posts:
wrongthinker · 28/09/2024 20:19

Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 20:15

@wrongthinker I'm afraid anyone trying to respond honestly, as you have, will not get a hearing because we're saying things that the OP is not willing to hear. Nothing anyone can do about that.

Edited

I know, you're right. It's how she keeps escalating it. I'm more annoyed by posters enabling it, but hey. Not my circus, not my monkeys, as they say!

Baileysandcream · 28/09/2024 20:19

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:58

But , blanketyre when I have tried to talk to my sister she's told me I'm completely out of line. So I'm kind of trying to work out where the line is - what's acceptable. This mumsnet thread has helped me a lot, when peole actually engage in my story, which is why I do feel impatient with the people who go all meta and say 'oh don't engage with her narratives, don't encourage her in her delusions of persecution'. That's the opposite of helpful.

But nobody here can really help you to find the line because we're only hearing the situation from your perception of it - which may be quite different to how it really is or how others see it.

You've told us that you believe your family are punishing you and will continue to punish you for daring to be creative, get married and leave London. I wonder what alternative viewpoint your family would give if they were posting here?

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:20

TBH it is a bit more than that - my husband is away. It's crazy that I'm on mumsnet. But I am not only crazy, or even necessarily very crazy.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:25

The pathologisers are getting really cruel now. I mean why do they care so much whether or not I capitulate to their psychiatric objectification? Do they know nothing of the history of psychiatry and how it's used as a tool to invalidate people and much, much worse?

There's nothing at all specially outlandish about anything I'm doing or saying or thinking, other than its on social media. I am getting baited so need to get off here.

OP posts:
Rachie1973 · 28/09/2024 20:27

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:46

I'm just trying to regulate tbh but there are too many people on here with their own anxieties

See, you did it again. Turned it into a label for someone else. It is a worry x

Tbry24 · 28/09/2024 20:28

I am estranged from my family, I have also had a nervous breakdown and been suicidal and am still suffering with my MH and I am also autistic.I moved away from my family many years ago to build a new safer life away from the trauma of my childhood. I can relate to some of the emotional turmoil as last time I saw some family members I literally collapsed afterwards and took me weeks to recover.

You need to let things go. Let your family go what they choose to do or not do in regards to anything let alone wills and money is up to them. I do understand none of my siblings currently speak to me, I’m in tears most days because of it all, and currently only my mum speaks to me but has never even been to my home, I’ve lived here 6 years.

Also IMO you need to not be with your husband he is not the support you need. You need routine and stability. Start putting yourself first and if you can leave your husband and build a new life with just your children, if that’s not an option start building up an emergency fund so you can leave soon.

you need to know your own worth, start doing things just for you. Little steps and things here and there will really help and will help you deal with problems as well. you need a calm environment with routine as do I so that when life becomes crap and loved ones let us down we are emotionally strong enough to get through it.

And yes I know how hard and utterly overwhelming everything is I struggle too, I currently have no friends left either. A lot of people can’t deal with people having issues and just disappear out of our lives, it’s not you it’s them being selfish.

as for your poor sister with MH problems I hope she also gets the help she needs. The fact that there’s now two of you in crisis would mean I would assume that there were traumas in your childhoods or some sorts of neglect. I can also relate.

hope you are ok, no more drinking either it never helps anyone (I used to work in bars and nightclubs it just makes things worse). You need a clear mind to focus on getting through each day and finding something joyful.

also may be some help but there’s a stately homes thread for people with family problems, lots of people experience same dreadful things and you will read things even if you choose not to post and instantly see it’s not just you. For me that was a revelation to know I’m not alone and it’s not me 💐

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 28/09/2024 20:43

OP, check out DBT self help - it is a type of therapy approach for people who are finding it hard to manage their emotions - it can really help if things feel chaotic and as if your emotions are intolerable. DBT self help.com is a good place to start.

pikkumyy77 · 28/09/2024 23:31

We are full circle with the suggestion of DBT. The OP is not interested at n change. She seems to want an audience composed of the usual points of the drama tryangle. If we won’t rescue her and admire her victim hood then we are persecuting her.

shoutingoutloud · 29/09/2024 01:48

Hello @almondmilk123 I hear you so loudly.

I come, like you, from a family that has only in later generations begun to be littered with ASD diagnoses (my two children, two grandchildren, my cousin's child...). We of earlier generations, and our parents before us, are all damaged by our experience living with hypersensitivities of various sorts, which we learnt we must control through our elders smacking us and coming down on us like a mountain falling on us. I say that without judgement, because I realise that my parents' generation did their best for us with the knowledge they had.

And what strikes me about what you have said so far is how much love is there. How much you used to love your sister. How you were enjoying listening to your dad's stories before he bizarrely turned on you. I don't speak for all neurodivergent people, but what I know from my own very difficult family is that we are both loyal and often at war with one another. Loyalty is important to us. It is the most fundamental aspect of "routine", of familiarity.

I can't/couldn't navigate my relationships with my parents/son/daughter whilst holding on to modern ideas like "boundaries". I'm a schmuck. I love them. I can't stop them saying the things they say, but as long as I get to say my piece, beside them saying theirs, all can be well. Things can be messy and beautiful. Think carefully about this. Look who has first tried to split your loyalties. Was it deliberate or just happenstance? Think about how you can begin to express yourself to the people you love, starting from a point of love, but saying your truth. I think that all you want is to be acknowledged and heard.

almondmilk123 · 29/09/2024 06:31

*Tbry24 *thankyou so much for your reply. I am so sorry to hear your situation. The idea that anything could have been done differently and anything has been done wrong in a family is such a big rubicon to cross and many family members won't go there and that's how it begins. I hear you about collapsing after seeing them.

you need to know your own worth, start doing things just for you I like this so much. Hugs to you. Can you find some ND communities, maybe online? You sound so kind xxx

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 29/09/2024 06:49

*shoutingoutloud *what an absolutely beautiful reply and god yes you've got the pain I'm feeling. I was having such a nice time with them before they did this. And now I'm scared of them. But I can't let go of the love. But I don't feel safe with them anymore. I needed to talk with them to go through the mechanical underpinnigs of the whole thing in terms of understnding their thinking, going back to some foundational upsets like her son hitting mine and me moving out of London but was shut down. Okay, no conversations, fine, let's hope for the best. Then the 90th birthday party happened. Um, yeah, this is going to carry on. I'm going to keep on getting wrecking balls thrown at me. Okay they're not necessarily wrecking balls by a consensus of randomly picked people but NDs all seem to get it. I am aware what was happening in my head was extreme, I do think I have dissociated and I've lost my sense of reality. I'm on here for people like you who can help me grope around for what may actually be happening. This reply from you was very helpful.

Look who has first tried to split your loyalties. Was it deliberate or just happenstance? this is such a fantastic question. Very early on in my relationship with my husband my sister started getting very angry with him about the fact that he was a bad driver and must never drive her son anywhere. My husband is not a calm man and he did total my car once, but I have never been scared to put our kids in a car with him and neither has anybody else. What is more, I wasn't for a second going to insist my sister gave us her son to drive around. Absolutely fine. He shall never enter our car. I didn't understand what she was so angry about. If I take the empathetic approach, I can guess that she was traumatised because her son nearly died from an infection after birth, and she got zero emotional support from anybody (much like me in other situations - that's how our family rolls) including her partner of the time. He is spectacularly useless and she couldn't trust him with the baby - I think she was projecting on my husband. I am scared to ask her directly that would raise all the issues she got angry about in the first place and set her off (yes I know many people would not be scared, yes yes yes) and my husband will just get upset because he is so hurt by his own family.

I jsut don't know what to do if I can't talk to them.

And that's a whole other layer to this - where TF did it begin - I never expected to get into on this thread so many thanks.

OP posts:
Blanketyre · 29/09/2024 08:22

Is it possible that your sister just didn't think your dh was a safe driver?

Sorry edited as I said brother!

Blanketyre · 29/09/2024 08:24

I am aware what was happening in my head was extreme, I do think I have dissociated and I've lost my sense of reality. I'm on here for people like you who can help me grope around for what may actually be happening

What does your therapist say when you tell her this?

missmousemouth · 29/09/2024 10:08

I really think the clouds will clear if you ditch your husband. You've said your sister hinted at him being coercive controller and you've described him as narcissistic. I mean, he's not a prince, is he? There are red flags then there are flashing lights and sirens.

A family member of mine was married to a diagnosed narcissist. No one could talk to her at all even though we could all see what was going on. When they tried to broach it with her, he moved her to a different continent (sound familiar?). They realised if they pushed they'd lose her and the grandchildren completely. They couldn't speak to her at all because he dripped poison in her ear and if she shared anything they said with him .... 🤷‍♀️. Which is why your sister might have 'hinted' instead of come right out and said it.

And my relative is a clever woman. She's now divorcing him, but it took two years of therapy to clear the fog and realise the blame was with HIM instead of herself and her family for all the turmoil.

Like you, she also had an inheritance. He persuaded her to use it to buy a rubbish house he said he'd fix up but never did, because big plans grandiose thinking and all that. She has now lost most of it in the divorce because the house is 50% his, plus the value of the house has deteriorated further.

SophiaCohle · 29/09/2024 10:25

almondmilk123 · 29/09/2024 06:49

*shoutingoutloud *what an absolutely beautiful reply and god yes you've got the pain I'm feeling. I was having such a nice time with them before they did this. And now I'm scared of them. But I can't let go of the love. But I don't feel safe with them anymore. I needed to talk with them to go through the mechanical underpinnigs of the whole thing in terms of understnding their thinking, going back to some foundational upsets like her son hitting mine and me moving out of London but was shut down. Okay, no conversations, fine, let's hope for the best. Then the 90th birthday party happened. Um, yeah, this is going to carry on. I'm going to keep on getting wrecking balls thrown at me. Okay they're not necessarily wrecking balls by a consensus of randomly picked people but NDs all seem to get it. I am aware what was happening in my head was extreme, I do think I have dissociated and I've lost my sense of reality. I'm on here for people like you who can help me grope around for what may actually be happening. This reply from you was very helpful.

Look who has first tried to split your loyalties. Was it deliberate or just happenstance? this is such a fantastic question. Very early on in my relationship with my husband my sister started getting very angry with him about the fact that he was a bad driver and must never drive her son anywhere. My husband is not a calm man and he did total my car once, but I have never been scared to put our kids in a car with him and neither has anybody else. What is more, I wasn't for a second going to insist my sister gave us her son to drive around. Absolutely fine. He shall never enter our car. I didn't understand what she was so angry about. If I take the empathetic approach, I can guess that she was traumatised because her son nearly died from an infection after birth, and she got zero emotional support from anybody (much like me in other situations - that's how our family rolls) including her partner of the time. He is spectacularly useless and she couldn't trust him with the baby - I think she was projecting on my husband. I am scared to ask her directly that would raise all the issues she got angry about in the first place and set her off (yes I know many people would not be scared, yes yes yes) and my husband will just get upset because he is so hurt by his own family.

I jsut don't know what to do if I can't talk to them.

And that's a whole other layer to this - where TF did it begin - I never expected to get into on this thread so many thanks.

Edited

I must say I don't think you can have it both ways - I don't think you can say in one breath, I need to talk deeply and at length but she won't, and then in the next say, I was scared to bring xyz up as that would set her off. Either every bad thing that has happened between you needs a thorough airing on both sides, or (a better choice imo with family relations this volatile) you keep the temperature low and maintain some distance for the good of your MH.

I also think that it's not so much ND people on the thread that 'get it' so much as people with difficult families. You see it on the estrangement threads (and in RL) when someone has, say, a narcissistic mother, and people who have been through it will say, this is a relationship that is damaging you, go NC, you won't regret it, and everyone else will be saying, but she's your mum/it's Christmas/I wish I could have just one more day with my mum etc.

I think it's unhelpful for you to believe that being ND is the problem here. Lots of us here have negotiated being ND in a largely ND family, and although there are things we don't cope well with it doesn't, by and large, lead to the kind of high drama you've described, rather the reverse in my experience as ND people usually want to avoid drama. This urge to return to the scene of the crime is much more to do with trauma imo, and a deep desire to unpick it and make sense of it (not that that's even possible necessarily). Of course the two can coexist and it may be that being ND is making it hard for you to stop picking at that scab, but I think you will struggle to cope with things until you can drop the rope and exit the tug of war that relations with your family have become.

Ilovelurchers · 29/09/2024 11:06

I realise I am being hypocritical, sorry, but please can everyone just carefully consider, before they post, the possibility that, though being kind and compassionate and trying to help, they are potentially making a difficult situation worse. OP appears to be trying to engage with the thread almost like it is a form of talking therapy. And it's really not - it can't be that. Even if talking therapy is the intervention she most needs right now, which personally I would question.

Mumsnet is a brilliant place for people who have challenging family dynamics to find support - I have found it here myself. But please consider that, while it is possible that OP's family ARE intentionally unkind and even abusive, all that really is apparent from her account is that her dad took steps to safeguard the grandkids' inheritance from her and her husband, and her sister took steps to safeguard her child. This could be rational on both their parts, based on behaviour they have seen from OP and her husband, who may be quite unwell. To automatically bolster her opinion that they are treating her unkindly may not actually help her come to a clear assessment of the situation.

Just my thoughts. I'm not omniscient of course. This just feels like a situation where we all need to be really careful. And OP, I say none of this to hurt you - I really do want you to find support and feel better.

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