I've met a guy but have reservations

[roses321]

He's extremely affectionate and a perfect gentleman, opens the door for me, very respectful and caring. We've been dating about 2 months, he ended up accompanying me on what was going to be a solo trip to Turkey and we got on great. He asked me if I'd like to make a go of things with him and I said yes.

Few things though:

1. He's very into these right wing political conspiracy theories. I put it down to the fact he's south african and he's seen a lot more than I have (I've just been in the same place my whole life). He's convinced the government want to control us and his endless tiktok watching is more annoying than anything. I've just ignored it largely. It's not something I am interested in. I'm open to anything but I need solid facts before I really listen to things like this.

1. Whilst we're both 40 he seems very keen for a baby. I don't have children and he has one in south africa. The mother wouldn't let him have any part in her life and wanted him to give up rights. He tried to be involved and still pays for his daughters schooling but she just texts him when she wants money there is no custody arrangement and because he couldn't get work in south africa and was repeatedly given just an hour supervised with his daughter he came back to the UK because he had no money or work. White men apparently find it hard out there. He has no idea if he's on the birth certificate and no legal advice has been sought over this situation, he's just trying to do what he can.

1. He doesn't earn amazingly, he has been back in the UK for a year and is living with his mother right now who he takes care of. He's made it clear he's not a financially motivated person. I earn a lot more than him and I have kept quiet about this and said nothing about my income. I think he's on about 30k so he's not exactly broke but I do worry about it.

1. Things are very early days with us but he made my alarm bells go off when he suggested we both go to a party that he was invited to by someone he had made friends with from tinder (a woman). He was happy to show me the messages but I said it's inappropriate to stay in touch with people you dated and since he'd only met her once and decided she was not for him I couldn't understand why he'd stay in touch. He said they got on and he has no friends in the UK they are all in south africa. I didn't like this at all. I believe him because he was completely transparent but I'm still uncomfortable. He said he's happy not speaking with her again. His message to her says he met someone (me) and she acknowledged the invitation might be inappropriate but she was inviting us both as friends. I have my own friends I am not interested in this at all.

I would normally just cut someone off if I'm not sure but we get on great and the things he does for me are small but mean a lot. His general manner towards me is just extremely respectful and kind and caring. It's not about money or overblown gestures it's just decency. Always taking my bags, always letting me through doors first, walking on the outside of the pavement, the way he's taken care of his mother after a hip operation, his consistency with staying in touch and his affectionate manner. There is a lot I really like that is understated and means so much to me.

I think he genuinely does want his own family and because he's spent his life moving around perhaps he just wants to settle down. I am wired to be cautious because of my previous experiences so perhaps I'm doing the same here. Thoughts would be great.

I just don't appreciate the anger some posters have shown, there's no need for it. It's not their situation. They don't know this guy

Neither do you after 2 months of dating!

And it's not evident why you have posted, you've come on saying you have reservations, most people have agreed and stated reasons why but you argue them all.

What do you want?

Regardless, it all seems ridiculously intense for 2 months of knowing someone, I'm surprised he's sharing all this shit with you, someone he barely knows

Around his daughter:
The main thing for me is that IF his story is true, the situation must be fair, and the only way fairness can be sought is via court/legal process.
He wasn't told she was born until several weeks afterwards, he's been denied a paternity test because she wouldn't allow it, he should be contributing absolutely, but blindly because she says so? Absolutely not. Why would that be fair? For MLM supplements for a medical condition he hasn't got proof of and hasn't been told about prior? Fuck no.
If her family have refused him time alone with his daugther then that's unfair, if they are refusing to tell him if he's on the birth certificate that is unfair, if they are refusing to reasonably help him when he's clearly attempting to visit his daughter and contribute then that's unfair.

If all that is true then yes he's a victim, the same way we're victims when we get impregnated then left with nothing. Can we have some semblance of equality here please? Unfair is unfair, unless we're saying that because he's a man he should have less rights afforded to him, in which case c'mon please. Evolve.

But even if this is all true and he's been treated badly by this woman and her family, if the child is his, then simply paying towards school fees is a pretty tiny percentage of total costs, surely you can see that? Sure, something orderd by the court would be better, but courts in this country are terrible, do you really think it will be better in SA? Plus, he's not there? How on earth is any court ordered anything going to work? From a purely moral perspective, he has a child and that child generates expenses, including medical and school fees. I dn't blame him for wanting more proof of the cost or relevance of medicine... but more from the perspective of a loving and involved father. At the end of the day, if he's only paying towards school fees, I can see why when any new costs come up, this woman is asking him.

Also, I can't speak for SA as a whole here, but through DH's extended SA relatives, I can tell you that I've seen a lot of people who are dubious about things like ADHD and any kind of mainstream medication, and who are also very much into conspiracy theories. And I don't discuss DS' ADHD diagnosis with those relatives because of the batshit ridiculous things they say (also, my brother!) So it's possible that his child's family may be as conspiracy theorists as he is.

If he is one of the few farmers who have genuinely been kicked off their land and whose neighbours, friends or family have been murdered, I feel for him. But please note this isn't anywhere near as prevalent as some white south africans like to make out.

"Ridiculously intense" - ffs please.

I'm assuming you're happily married yes? Is that why you're speaking to me like I am some sort of lower intelligence idiot?

When people start dating they talk, and after two months of spending time with someone yes I absolutely bloody would expect to know that he had a daughter and know what the situation was there otherwise wtf would I be doing? Talking about what baubles i'm buying for my f'ing Christmas Tree in December?

If you're not discussing these sorts of things in your life after 2 months then what the f are you supposed to be doing exactly? Should we be swanning around National Trust grounds drinking tea and discussing the weather?

C'mon.

When you get to the point where you have baggage in your life and you don't discuss it with someone pretty soon after you've decided to start dating them then THAT my dear, is the red flag. If I came here posting after 6 months that I just found out about this stuff then what do you think people would say?

"why didn't he tell you at the start". And indeed... I would agree.

Well indeed. Do you think it's appropriate that he is giving you so much information that paints his DD's mother in a bad light and is asking your opinion?

He should be settling this with his daughter's mother. And asking friends/ family for advice and venting. Really not dragging in a 2 month date.

Nobody here is angry. We don't know you. Do what you like. It's just very clear indeed that this is a situation with the potential for a lot of mess. Your boundaries need a lot of work. Honestly, you're not an appropriate person to be having those discussions with him. Why is it a good use of your time? Sounds like false intimacy being built to me. Favourable comparison to daughter's mother and using you as a listening ear. If you're happy with the relationship, carry on. You don't need to justify yourself. But if it doesn't sound great to people on here, they will say so.

I do think you are ignoring the big red flags. It seems a very intense relationship after only 2 months.

You admit to reservations but clearly want to give him benefit of doubt, so see what happens, but be careful.

Nooooo, why bother with this type of nincompoop?

Your replies are really helpful.

I forget the supplement it was now but it's some sort of MLM company Nutri-something?
It's a multivitamin by the looks if things.

I get what you're saying entirely, I just think that you can't have it both ways, you can't exclude the father from any kind of opinion of his daughters medical situation or life then at the same time say "i've decided this please pay for it". Where do you draw the line?

She should at least get a diagnosis for ADHD. From what I understand the family have attempted to get him to relinquish rights as a parent and he's refused, and if that's the case then it's a crappy situation all around.

I'm in no way qualified to know what the best course of action is, the only thing I can say is court... but yes I hear you, it's expensive, and if he didn't have that money then he's screwed.

Her family is extremely well off from what he's said, so the best place for the daughter is obviously with the mother, but that said that's no reason to make life deliberately difficult for him.

Someone else mentioned that perhaps he wants a baby and a family to replace that lost need and I 100% see that as being the case, I can see that already. I don't necessarily see that as a "bad thing" but I also don't see it as a justification for rushing. He's already made it clear that if things progress with us he wants to have a child, and that's a fair enough statement to make but y'know, I'm 40 so I don't even know if I can give him that in a couple of years or whatever. Probably not... so that's a discussion that probably needs to happen!

My boundaries need "a lot of work"? How so?
I don't think he's set out to paint her in a bad light, but if that's what's happened then er...she's a bit of a shit no?

Why is it that people on here are so against holding women accountable for anything even in theory? Not one person has said "oh gosh that is terrible for him" but we're happy to shove the men in a ditch and blast them. Why? Feel free to read back some of the responses to women in abusive situations that i've posted if you don't think I'm angry about men, but i'm not about to tip a bucket of black paint on everyone who has a penis just because that's the standard protocol around here.

As for settling it with the mother, I agree, and I believe he has attempted numerous times to do that. They do talk, but from what I've seen any questions he asks go unanswered until she wants some money and then the questions will continue to go unanswered even then and it'll just be "can you pay for this please".

Nutri-life possibly?

As a parent of a child with ADHD, I do know that some supplements are recommended such as Omega 3. Also, I have a feeling that buying melatonin might be easier in SA (it has to be prescribed here).

You are right that some actual involvement in this process, including diagnosis, would be more helpful. And of course you want to believe that his ex and her family are 100% to blame for all problems, but I'd still be hesitant about this because statistically, it's less likely (albeit not impossible). As you've said yourself, he hasn't made much effort to fight on this, which is a red flag in itself.

His story is getting less plausible as time goes on. You don't know that once upon a time he was earning well in his successful business, you have his word to go on , and I'm sure he's aware that it makes him sound good to have at least had the gumption to be successful once upon a time. Given he's not that bright, I'm sceptical.
Going off what he has said, the DC's mother was a casual thing, and he only found out after she'd given birth. A paternity test has not been done, that is big, that sheds a different light on all he's said. This is the vital bit that shows he's lying at least in parts. No man who has lost their business, and is strapped for cash would blindly give money for a DC that has a real possibility of not being his.
I doubt he pays anything, skipped the country to avoid it, and just tells you he does as an excuse to why he has little money. You will gradually find yourself paying for joint endeavours because he's set up a tale so that you take pitty on him, and its working, you are already accepting his reasons, rather than being critical of them.
When he came on holiday with you, did he pay for his flight only, or did he pitch into half of your accommodation costs? This is telling. Beware, he could be out for what he can get and comes with his own sob story.

What in the Holy hell have I just read.

I don't think you should be dating anyone op. You seem to have no red flag radar whatsoever.

Apart from your final bullet point. That makes you a red flag imo. He is entitled to have whatever friends he likes! Even if he did meet them on tinder. He was upfront and transparent that she's just a mate. And you two have only know eachother a few months. It's really quite cheeky to try and police his friendships like this.

Also, what's wrong with 30k a year? That's a fair enough income for a single person. If you make the same you'd be pretty well off as a couple.

Maybe if its london 30k would be tight. But still manageable.

"White men apparently find it hard out there."

Two of the most privileged groups you can belong to. Male, white.

Yeah, right.

So I am single and divorced. I don't have a perfect man at home or a perfect life, far from it. I have commented on your thread but I don't look down on you from a place of content smugness.
I think, however, this just sounds like a lot to be taking on. I know that by your age men will come with some baggage, of course they will.
But I just wonder if at two months in you want to be dealing with this, to be on MN worrying about whether these odd sounding stories this man has told you are true.
He holds door open for you and he sounds like he's being considerate and complimentary. But he earns a lot less than you and has a whole lot of complicated stuff going on which may or may not be true.

I think, to be honest, you could do better and if I was you I would end it with this man and resume my search.

you're missing the point. The point is that the child's upbringing and their relationship has nothing to do with you and you shouldn't be hearing about the sticky bits. If he is not yet able to balance these, he is not ready to date.

None of this sounds particularly terrible for him at all. He is choosing to live overseas. There are absolutely jobs for white men in SA so that's not true for one thing. Plenty of co-parents aren't on great terms. It is considered a much better sign when the new partner is discreet and civil about co parenting matters in early dating (this is very much early dating).

Boundaries, I've already said. There are things you're not happy with such as being friends with exes and salary. Not his problem. If you don't like it, you end things. In another sense, you don't seem to have a good measure of what is and isn't appropriate behaviour from a partner and also, the concerns you do have, how to have to confidence to listen to those concerns and weigh up what to do instead of defending them to strangers.

Please consider this instead of rebutting. Everyone's boundaries need maintaining, it is absolutely not just yours.

Why is it that people on here are so against holding women accountable for anything even in theory? Not one person has said "oh gosh that is terrible for him" but we're happy to shove the men in a ditch and blast them

I have a thought. Why don't you post the exact same post on another site. It is fair to say I think that this site has more women than men posters. So more woman are going to reply to you here. That said, many women here have been through the mill with men who have used and abused. And now have a good radar for things that just seem off. There are many things that are off here. They are being masked by him being from another country, and basics he was taught as a child.

Maybe you will get the answers you want to see elsewhere.

I will always try to support women where I feel I can assist.
I will also try to support my fellow countrymen as and when necessary. It is just a South African thing which people here may not get.

In this instance though, I am going to wish you well going forward, and I do hope that what it is you feel you need, comes your way.

Totsiens
Hamba kakuhle

If SA is anything like the UK re. birth certificates, he couldn't be on it unless he attended the registration appointment alongside the Mum.

So, that's odd (to not know).

Secondly, if it was a relatively casual relationship and a paternity test has not been done, why would he be paying maintenance?

In terms of you saying, if she and her family have been preventing him.from seeing his child or insisting or supervising him seeing his child ...that .that's unfair.

I genuinely don't know how you can say categorically that it's unfair. ....you've known him 8 weeks, you do t know them, you don't know the Mum, you don't know the family and you going know anything about their relationship or history (other than what one person, him, had told you). So, no offence but his are you in a position to say their behaviour is unfair/wrong?

He's a right ring conspiracy theorist, which .rand he's not well adjusted. I'm not surprised he's "experiencing problems" in other parts of his life.

Discernment...... It's not discerning to date a conspiracy theorist. That should be a deal breaker

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That. I think you get the point of what I am trying to say….

Sorry about the typos

I think you're doing the right thing OP by giving it time, withholding certain information that would make you vulnerable to a wrong 'un, and not rushing to decide about him one way or the other.

I wouldn't say there are red flags, but maybe Amber lights, suggesting go slow and proceed with caution.

The stuff about his kid would concern me. If it's all true, it seems terribly sad. What would his motivation for lying be? But also, what might happen in that situation that could make things difficult for him in years to come, and has he thought this all through? I agree, it sounds like it should all go through court, but maybe he fears causing problems for his kid?

The other stuff I think is fine and wouldn't concern me. I might want him to put his phone down more and maybe read books rather than watch tiktoks! It's really the stuff with his child that would make me cautious.

Time will tell, OP.

Seconded

@roses321 you have created a thread about a new relationship that you have "reservations" about. Your closing line in your OP was

Thoughts would be great.

Everyone has given you their thoughts but all you have done is argued every commentor (quite aggressively). If you didn't want people to agree with you then why did you start the thread?

Haven't RTFT.

So many red flags, OP.

And, tbh, Always taking my bags, always letting me through doors first, walking on the outside of the pavement would also be a red flag for me.

The door thing wouldn't be an issue on it's own but with everything else.

Put it this way, I actively wouldn't date a man who insisted on doing those things because its quite often tied up with thoughts/beliefs/expectations about what women are and what women should do.

It wouldn't be a relationship of equals.

https://legaladvice.org.za/what-rights-do-fathers-have-to-children-born-out-of-wedlock-in-south-africa/

I don't really see how his child's mother & family could have prevented him seeing his child or allowed only supervised contact without some recourse for him... He had options to gain parental rights and guardianship if he really wanted to and pursued it.

If he pursued it and the mother cast doubt over his paternity, you'd imagine a test would be done before anything went any further.

I don't understand why he would pay maintenance without a paternity test anyway. He says it was a casual relationship (and it's not like paternity is always certain even in serious relationships).

There's something about all this that has me going "huh" and "hmm".

It sounds like a bit of a sob story, both the child part and possibly the employment part.

You're lacking scepticism here and taking everything he says as true/valid, whereas it may not be. You've known him 8 weeks. Which means you don't really know him.

(I had a relationship in which I thought the guy I was seeing was fantastic for nearly 3 months ... By the end of the relationship, I'd discovered he was full.of shit and the worst person I'd probably ever had a relationship with).

To reiterate... A right ring conspiracy theorist is not a well adjusted person. It's not something that can be neatly separated out and not matter.

OP, I could have written your post. I met a very handsome SA that was all chivalry and very funny/charming…he was/is way down the rabbit hole with conspiracy theories, the right wing and is a devout Christian. He’s late 40s and very keen to have a baby too. He was Anti vaccine to the point I got the impression he’d have enjoyed me acquiring some problem following the covid jab (he was forever sending me vids at how people were suffering side effects and/or dying following the jab) . He told me, post having sex with him (several times) that he’d changed his mind and can’t ever have sex before marriage again.
when he decided that I wasn’t “right for him”, he decided we should be friends and insisted that we maintained contact. I was that enamoured at the time, I agreed to a friendship. We saw each other most weekends. Funnily enough…he shoe horned himself into another woman’s trip to Turkey a couple of months ago too…
You sound “loved” up and defensive. I get it. Go along with this relationship and let it wear itself out (don’t get pregnant)..and in 6 months time, let us know about how you “saw the light” with this guy. You’ll get there in the end (I don’t mean to sound patronising here). But Conspiracy theorists are boring, draining and can be very dangerous.
you’re not ready to see that yet because you’re having a nice time…but trust me, give a few more months and you’ll be running for the hills…

Why is it not ok to be friends with someone you dated?