I've met a guy but have reservations

[roses321]

He's extremely affectionate and a perfect gentleman, opens the door for me, very respectful and caring. We've been dating about 2 months, he ended up accompanying me on what was going to be a solo trip to Turkey and we got on great. He asked me if I'd like to make a go of things with him and I said yes.

Few things though:

1. He's very into these right wing political conspiracy theories. I put it down to the fact he's south african and he's seen a lot more than I have (I've just been in the same place my whole life). He's convinced the government want to control us and his endless tiktok watching is more annoying than anything. I've just ignored it largely. It's not something I am interested in. I'm open to anything but I need solid facts before I really listen to things like this.

1. Whilst we're both 40 he seems very keen for a baby. I don't have children and he has one in south africa. The mother wouldn't let him have any part in her life and wanted him to give up rights. He tried to be involved and still pays for his daughters schooling but she just texts him when she wants money there is no custody arrangement and because he couldn't get work in south africa and was repeatedly given just an hour supervised with his daughter he came back to the UK because he had no money or work. White men apparently find it hard out there. He has no idea if he's on the birth certificate and no legal advice has been sought over this situation, he's just trying to do what he can.

1. He doesn't earn amazingly, he has been back in the UK for a year and is living with his mother right now who he takes care of. He's made it clear he's not a financially motivated person. I earn a lot more than him and I have kept quiet about this and said nothing about my income. I think he's on about 30k so he's not exactly broke but I do worry about it.

1. Things are very early days with us but he made my alarm bells go off when he suggested we both go to a party that he was invited to by someone he had made friends with from tinder (a woman). He was happy to show me the messages but I said it's inappropriate to stay in touch with people you dated and since he'd only met her once and decided she was not for him I couldn't understand why he'd stay in touch. He said they got on and he has no friends in the UK they are all in south africa. I didn't like this at all. I believe him because he was completely transparent but I'm still uncomfortable. He said he's happy not speaking with her again. His message to her says he met someone (me) and she acknowledged the invitation might be inappropriate but she was inviting us both as friends. I have my own friends I am not interested in this at all.

I would normally just cut someone off if I'm not sure but we get on great and the things he does for me are small but mean a lot. His general manner towards me is just extremely respectful and kind and caring. It's not about money or overblown gestures it's just decency. Always taking my bags, always letting me through doors first, walking on the outside of the pavement, the way he's taken care of his mother after a hip operation, his consistency with staying in touch and his affectionate manner. There is a lot I really like that is understated and means so much to me.

I think he genuinely does want his own family and because he's spent his life moving around perhaps he just wants to settle down. I am wired to be cautious because of my previous experiences so perhaps I'm doing the same here. Thoughts would be great.

Always taking my bags, always letting me through doors first, walking on the outside of the pavement

The fact that you're actually impressed by these simple throwaway courtesies illustrates how skewed your judgement is.

I'm well aware of men and their control tactics.

Clearly not. This man is a laundry list of red flags and you admit you find some of his behaviours alarming and irritating, yet you say accidentally getting pregnant by him wouldn't be a big deal because you can afford a child as if that's the only consideration. Sure, just ignore the fact of burdening a child with a nutjob for a father and the both of you being tied to this weirdo for decades to come.

Anyhoo, have fun with your skint conspiracy theorist nutter boyfriend whose ex won't even allow him to see his child.

There's so much to zone in on, I'll just pick one (others have been covered).

'Endless TikTok watching'. Whatever the subject matter, if he's doing this now, it will become insufferable after the honeymoon period is over.

Don't put yourself through it.

Oh for pity's sake. I am south African. But it's totally bollocks that south Africans are more right wing. Its a big country. Old fashioned white Afrikaans conservatives are very much in the minority!

Mediocre white men absolutely do find it harder now. This is a man with little ambition earning 30k I the UK... white men like this in SA previously had good jobs, with good salaries..now they have the equivalent of 30k jobs with few prospects. I'm OK with that.

Stem saam. Maar daar is altyd dié wat beter weet.

OP you have known this guy for 5 minutes.
Take a step back and think this all through. Anyone who suggests having a child at 2 months in, in itself should be an eye opener.

You would have to be DESPERATE to stick with this weirdo.

Right wing conspiracy theorist? Seriously @roses321 ? You don’t think you can do better? Or realise that being single would be better than settling for someone like that…

OP I’ve just read your other threads about your ex and a man you felt used by recently and honestly, I think you need to step back from getting involved with anyone right now and work on your boundaries and standards.
You seem to not really be over your ex and desperate to jump into any relationship which means you’ll keep making huge mistakes like this one you’re about to make with this walking red flag.

I'm sorry that you've had a long series of awful men in your life. Reading your other threads is revealing.

This one is also awful, but for different reasons.

For those saying it doesn't sound like racism, it's implied in the "Poor little white man can't get a job in south africa because all those blacks have taken the jobs and I am now discriminated against" rhetoric. I could also be reading too much into it but OP implies that his conspiracy theories are the result of his past experiences, I assume in SA.

Ffs??? Your post is filled with of more red flags than a red flag factory?!!

Dump him NOW and raise your bar!!

I've read all responses. A few of them have been super helpful. Most of them have been the usual mumsnet bordering on insulting vitriol. Actually, some of it is outright insulting and aggressive for no reason.

Appreciate the people who have posted balanced responses.

Totally get it about his daughter, that seems to be the main thing making people irate. I know what he's told me, I'm not sitting there thinking "oh it must be true". I'm pretty suspicious generally (especially considering as some people noted, my previous posts).

Having said that, I heard him out about his daughter, I reserve judgement for now... and I mean...for now. The story appears sad, he appears very distressed about it. The story is essentially that he was making a lot of money at one point and he hooked up with this girl a few times (it wasn't a relationship), she got pregnant, she refused to have an abortion (he never attempted to make her, she just outright told him i'm not getting rid of it), he lost his business, her family made demands on him that he couldn't meet, they lived a long way away from him and wouldn't help him when it came to things like his car breaking down etc etc. The supervised visits were by her family, they wouldn't allow him to be alone with his daughter and no he didn't fight it in court (which is my concern because why not).

Is it true? I dont' know. I'm sure I'll find out.

The tiktok bs, yes this is a problem for me. If anything this is my main issue right now because whilst I'm a conservative and was raised as such, I do not support far right theories or consipracies or any other extreme bs. I simply believe that if you come into any country you respect people, you work and you contribute. If you don't, you have no business trying to get into another country.

Having said all of that, it is early days. I'm not marrying the guy, nor am I moving in with him, nor am I giving away any information about myself that could put me in a negative situation such as what I earn or anything else that might be attractive to him.

I personally do not believe that he's dishonest, I don't think he's particularly bright in all honesty but he's told me quite a lot about his life, his family and his experiences and if all is to be believed then it makes perfect sense why he's chosen to come to the UK. I felt extremely sorry for my last ex partners sob stories and threw caution to the wind and invested everything, I will not be doing that again without a consistent LONG period of time where things are good.

He does not speak about his ex with anywhere near the crowd and pitchfork vitriol that I get here just for putting a bloody post up saying "thoughts please". I am the first one to tell people to get the f out of relationships that are bad for them - feel free to read some of the posts on other peoples threads that i've written. When he speaks about his ex it is not with any aggression, the only thing I actually pick up is a lot of sadness that he cannot see his daughter and appears very much to be held to ransom for a simple photograph of her. Is that reality? The jury is out. I'm aware his family did accuse him of taking drugs, the reality was in fact that he had a thyroid issue which caused him to lose a huge amount of weight and which he had to have surgically corrected.

For those who condescendingly tell me to "get therapy". I have, for a year thank you very f'ing much. I do not "need therapy" for liking a person who has potential concerns. I would need therapy if I moved in with him next week, married him and blindly believed everything he said to me yes, i do agree with you on that.

To listen to some people on here it would appear it's full of far left perfect housewives with perfect husbands and perfect lives, but from reading the multiple threads on here on the daily with peoples nightmare living situations i'm well aware that isn't the case. Perhaps then, the vitriol is coming from a place of wanting to help, but even so, I've been right there with you, so dial it down.

I wasn't born yesterday, I'm seeing the concerns, I am reserving judgement and I am observing. The aggression is unwarranted and frankly based on the fact that you're behind a keyboard and think it's ok to speak to people like that because it's "over the internet".

I asked for a temperature test, I got one... although in my view a highly biased one, but i take note nonetheless.

What I won't do though is bin someone off immediately because their life hasn't been picture perfect. I need more information first, and I need to see what comes out of the woodwork. If things come out that I don't like and that back up suspicions then i'll bin.

So what was the point of your thread then?

Why bother posting in the first place?

Your update doesn't make things sound better to be honest OP.

How old is his daughter? Because you refer to her mother as "this girl". From that I read it as the she is/was quite young.

As long as you are aware that there are some pending issues here. But there will be a reason why he was not given contact with his child, and why the visits were supervised.

What passport does he hold?

One thing strikes me, after reading your update.

You said you don't think he's very bright. In my experience this generally causes the scales to fall from someone's eyes very quickly.

Unintelligent men don't attract me. You sound very bright @roses321 and this man sounds like he isn't.

And that's without the other reasons why this relationship is doomed.

He hasn't "not been given contact" and the visits were "supervised" by HER family.

There hasn't been any court ordered situation here.

Whilst I do understand the concern around it, is it at all possible that perhaps she got pregnant, didn't want an abortion, had the child, and then because he was earning a lot expected that he'd be a good provider for the child, and when he lost his business decided to make life difficult.
It's not as though that has never happened is it?

Do I think that's true? maybe. Who frickin knows, I definitely don't. I only know what i've been told, and I'm well aware that what i'm told and the actual truth could be worlds apart.

It presents a concern to me, not least because he's done nothing to fight this situation. If what he's saying is true, he needs to take it through court.

Like I said, my attitude on it is neutral right now. I do not like the fact he's left SA and his daughter, that raises concerns for me, however at the same time, he is still paying for his daughters schooling and the mother hits him up when she wants something. Most recently "my daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD and these MLM company supplements are really helping her so can you pay for them".

I've said to him that without evidence of a doctors diagnosis and the medication the doctor has prescribed, then no he should not be paying for some hokey supplements. Same as he shouldn't really pay for schooling unless it's directly to the school, or anything else unless he has evidence that it's going towards his daughter.

This really needs to be taken through court, and he needs to be ordered to pay x amount towards his daughter and a custody arrangement sought, and if he isn't on the birth certificate then frankly he has no rights as far as I know? And she won't tell him either way. What's the guy supposed to do in that situation?

Maybe he is an abusive, drug addicted nightmare... but thus far, in the short time I've known him, I haven't seen any evidence of that, and in time I am sure if that is what he is then I will.

So far nothing about his personality tells me that he's a wolf in sheeps clothing. Yes, politeness, manners and general respect are supposed to be "standard" but please.... just take a look at the latest threads on the relationship section and tell me it isn't in short supply these days. Does that mean he's "the one"? Hell to the no, but does it mean he MAY deserve the benefit of the doubt for now rather than the standard issue mumsnet flamethrower? In my opinion actually yes. For now.

He has a south african passport and residence permit, his intention is to stay here. His mother is here, his father is here, the rest of his family are in Zim, and he was born and grew up in SA before moving to Zim then moving back to SA then moving here. Very different from me: UK for 40 years, my family have lived in the same house since I was 5.

I look at my ex: No kids, great job, absolutely no respect, constant underhanded jabs, misogyny galore, criticism over absolutely everything constantly.

I get none of that from this guy, just respect. Does that mean he's a "good guy" - maybe not. But also: Maybe. Maybe he's got more skeletons in his closet than the local cemetary but maybe he's told the truth and the woman he was with is using him like a personal ATM and the only way he could actually support his daughter was moving to the UK... Jury is out in my opinion right now. Could he have got another job in SA? Maybe if he'd "tried harder", but also if you're driving for hours and hours having lost your business and you're told to fuck off after an hour of being watched by an entire family who think you're a loser and a drug addict then you eventually just can't do it anymore.

If his story is true, and I was him, then frankly I probably would have done the same thing and paid for my daughter in a place where I could actually get a job without discrimination which was and still is rife in SA. Whether said discrimination post apartheid is right or wrong is not the debate here either before anyone goes down that track.

You are having quite a strange response to answers on this thread. I don't think anyone has been vitriolic. Unless you consider being told there are lots of red flags vitriolic.

Re the DD - let's assume he's telling the truth that this was a casual relationship. That is always goign to create some problems for a longer term co-parenting relationship, fair enough. But I'm concerned by your attitude that he shouldn't pay unless he knows it's going to schooling - that's a red flag attitude lots of men have. Often seen on here in the form of, "why shoudl I be paying her if she's got money to get her hair done or go to the pub". the reality is that it doesn't really matter if that money goes directly to the school or not, he absolutely SHOULD be contribruting financially. And significantly so as he's in another country. Particularly as with exchange rates, £500 a month for example would go a LOT further than the same amount would here. Also, a note that in South Africa, fees are levied even on state schools and the fees can be significant, particularly for good state schools in large towns or cities.

Mostly, he's just coming across to me as a bit of a victim. "I can't get a job because I'm white" "They wouldn't help me when my car broke down" etc etc. Fine, that's how some people are, but it can be tiring.

Frankly, the biggest red flag is the conspiracy theories. Because what happens over time in this relationship? Say you DO have children? Is he goign to refuse to allow vaccinations? Will he be freaking out about what they're learning at school? Is he going to insist on weird and unnecessary security measures at home/when out and about? Will he make you/your children uncomfortable with his ranting in public?

Edited to add: You have said yourself you are english, lived locally your whole life etc. I have no doubt that he has found South Africa harder since Apartheid ended, but please, to take one person's word on this supposedly "rife discrimination" is not appropriate.

OP - gently - is there a part of you that would like to have a baby, given that you're 40 and time is running out?

You've mentioned that you could afford a baby on your own, given your salary etc.

You've been in a horribly abusive relationship in the past. Is it possible that you just want a reasonably decent man to father a child with you? Even if you end up not actually staying with him?

Why did you bother posting? He sounds like a nightmare, you can do better.

These seem like quite big red flags to me but your responses suggest you are unbothered by them.
A 40 year old man regularly watching tik tok conspiracy theories seems very immature to me, and I'd wonder how far down that rabbit hole he could go and how easily influenced and led he is by this sort of thing.
Personally to me, I can't ignore someone's politic stance if I wanted to build a life with them; especially if they don't align with my opinions, I'd want a decent overlap.
The fact he doesn't have contact with his daughter but is keen to have a baby seems like he didn't want to bother fighting in the courts for proper contact to build a relationship which his own child (why - this is a big question you should ask him to answer), but wants to have a new family to replace that need.
The party/previous partner thing, again just seems immature.
Some people have many good qualities, that doesn't necessarily make their bad qualities any better. Depending on how much of a deal breaker they are to you.

OP, if you've been dating a man 2 months, it isn't your place to be expressing all of these opinions about his daughter's schooling and medications. Why do you imagine these are any of your business? You may not like this but it seems as though your boundaries need a lot of work.

If asked, I will answer. I was asked. I answered.

What MLM supplement? I am here, in SA. I don't mind to see how much they are and if that ties in with what she is asking for.

PM me the school name if you like. I will give you an idea of those fees too.

It doesn't sound like she is asking the earth from him to raise their child. Remember, there is no (or should I say very little) government help here. She is carrying the full cost of raising this child on her own. The schooling is not free. Health care is not free. I didn't see you mention her asking for help on health care, but that is one of the biggest expenses. The cost of living crisis is not just a UK / EU thing.

He hasn't "not been given contact" and the visits were "supervised" by HER family

Apologies, yes I see he was not denied contact, but only supervised. Why is that though?

This is quite a complicated situation OP. I think you can agree with that. There is a lot of drama. Why are you inviting it into your life, when it seems you have survived a lot of drama already. You do know a lot about his situation, and also passing comments about his child which are really not your place at two months in.

The above offer stands if it helps you any. I really don't get the feel that the mother is lying about this though.

With all due respect to everyone, I think further responses are a waste of time. I'm not absolutely clear what OP is asking as she lists concerns and then when anyone posts saying that said concern is well, yes, very concerning she immediately becomes very defensive.

If anyone out there thinks this guy is a prince, say so now which is, I think, what OP wants. Otherwise I think we can accept that most sensible women would be running for the hills which clearly is not what OP wants to hear.

I'm not sure why my responses would be seen as strange. I'm not blindly believing him, the same way i'm not blindly listening to everyone telling me to "run". That kind of thinking is a huge problem full stop end of story.

Discernment around all situations is important.

Around his daughter:
The main thing for me is that IF his story is true, the situation must be fair, and the only way fairness can be sought is via court/legal process.

He wasn't told she was born until several weeks afterwards, he's been denied a paternity test because she wouldn't allow it, he should be contributing absolutely, but blindly because she says so? Absolutely not. Why would that be fair? For MLM supplements for a medical condition he hasn't got proof of and hasn't been told about prior? Fuck no.

If her family have refused him time alone with his daugther then that's unfair, if they are refusing to tell him if he's on the birth certificate that is unfair, if they are refusing to reasonably help him when he's clearly attempting to visit his daughter and contribute then that's unfair.

If all that is true then yes he's a victim, the same way we're victims when we get impregnated then left with nothing. Can we have some semblance of equality here please? Unfair is unfair, unless we're saying that because he's a man he should have less rights afforded to him, in which case c'mon please. Evolve.

Around his political views:
Like I said: Discernment.

I do not support these tik tok idiots who spread rage bait. It's irritating to me, the same way it's irritating when i get women coming here saying "get therapy" when they don't even know me. Any snap assumption and theorising based on minimal information that results in vitriolic bs annoys me intensely.
I think Elon Musk should get back in his box as well because he's another one. Just because he's a relative genius in the tech industry doesn't mean he has any place making statements around global politics especially theorising some "single party rule" bs.

I am a conservative, I have a farming background and I do not want to see our country filled up with people who contribute nothing and leach off the system, but people like that will exist who come into it, and who were born into it. Race doesn't come into it. On that, he and I agree.
If it gets to the point where it's a constant theme with him, I'll be vacating because I have opinions but they don't define me on a daily basis and I don't seek out justification for them from online idiots to further anger myself. I can't see the benefit in doing that and frankly the situation is so complex that no amount of poring over it is going to make any difference, it's too nuanced and complicated for a 30 second summary on a social media platform.

All that aside, I've lived in a safe country for 40 years, my neighbours weren't murdered, my dogs weren't shot and my farm wasn't forcefully taken from me and that's what his experience was so I sort of understand. Nevertheless, I won't tolerate endless rage bait being discussed and I couldn't give a fuck about listening to it either. If anything drives me away it'll be that.

Someone asked whether I just feel that I want a child because i'm running out of time. It's a valid question. Maybe there is an element of that, but I definitely don't think that it's anything near appropriate to be thinking about actually doing that until at least a year from now...my last partner was infertile and if I had wanted kids so badly I would have sought that situation out sooner I think. I made peace with the idea of just not having children prior to meeting this guy, and perhaps part of me is thinking that maybe that's not my path after all, but i'm not having children with someone I have concerns about. Time is needed. A lot of it.

I'm not defensive about it, I think what gets me annoyed about some of the responses is the sheer amount of aggression in them. Please feel free to scroll up - some of them are along the lines of "get help" and "are you stupid".

A lot of people have responded and asked questions and given really balanced responses which is super helpful to me.

The general consensus on mumsnet really does appear to me as though I'm being spoken to by a bunch of people who have their perfect husbands, perfect lives, perfect kids and I must be an idiot not to have those things and what is wrong with me in the head. That's how it comes off, and yes it annoys me greatly.

It also annoys me greatly that there is this massive assumption that because he's got a daughter in another country HE must be the problem because the mother was born with a vagina and that somehow equates to the same as a halo and wings.
I've seen PLENTY of women on this forum posting about their piece of shit partners and when I read it i'm pretty fuming on their behalf, but I do not for one second think it NEVER works the opposite way around - it absolutely bloody does and so I'm objecting to that idea.

What the responses have given me is reassurance that my concerns should be concerns, which is what a lot of women ask for on here no? Reasonably I am aware that my concerns are justified, so if you're asking me why I had to put them in writing and ask a bunch of people to validate that... dunno, perhaps it's because I just felt the need to get that.

I just don't appreciate the anger some posters have shown, there's no need for it. It's not their situation. They don't know this guy, they don't know me. They just do it because it's the internet and they think it's ok, and that annoys me as well. But give a bit of it back and people are f'ing outraged and asking why I posted in the first place. I would have thought that was evident.