Does anal sex need explicit consent?

[TellingFriends]

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

if you read all my posts i have always said he didn't get consent. That is what this whole thread is about. It's you trying to move the goalposts so don't give me that.

What belief could he possibly have had to think she gave consent to anal sex? You are so insistent that it's possible, so let's hear it.

How are you feeling this morning @TellingFriends ?

Weird, upset and confused.

The polarised opinions on here are a good reflection of my headspace.

You might find a chat with Rape Crisis helps to clarify things for you.

You don't start trying to have anal sex with someone without knowing 100% they're ok with it. You don't just assume.

He's porn sick if he thinks you just change to a woman's anus, as though it's somehow the same or a perfectly normal thing.

He's also, as a male poster said, reckless about consent

I have never ever had a man do that to me, ever.

You're not at fault for his behaviour, and you're not at fault if you froze.

And the law isn't polarised about it, it's clear.

Consent for one sexual act does not mean consent can be assumed for others.

He would be prosecutable under the law.

And let's face it, anal sex is a particularly potentially unpleasant, painful and awkward sexual act. It's not evolved for that. It can lead to tears, injuries and continence problems. You are more likely to contract STDs there - because the tissues are not evolved for sex.

People on here .... They're only people, people are deeply flawed. Some are pretty dumb. The law is what the majority of qualified, level headed people agreed upon.

He had no right to do that without making sure you were ok with it beforehand.

Ack, I'm sorry @TellingFriends . I agree with pp you need to speak to someone like rape crisis. If things feel weird down below please seek medical help. Women's Aid might be able to point you to other support as well

EDIT - also agree with Hazel. The law is very clear. Some posters are deliberately trying to mess with your head (no idea why) but perhaps you will believe someone at Rape Crisis when they explain you were actually raped as you did not give consent. Please speak to them.

If I was the OP, and if I could face communicating with him - both very big ifs - I'd ask him if he realises what he did was without your consent and unwelcome. You could learn a lot by whether he reacts with profuse apologies or self-justifying bluster.

I know where I'd be putting my money.

You don't do that sort of thing as a decent person.

Several men on this thread have said so .... Why does this specimen need the chance to lie and bullshit.

@TellingFriends your update is very upsetting, and I’m so sorry this happened.

For the posters who have defended this man, I hope the OPs update makes you thoroughly ashamed. Not only did he not seek explicit consent for anal, he initiated sex while the OP was asleep and could not consent to ANY sexual activity.

Did he ever ask if you were ok or if you liked it? It wouldn't make it ok to just start doing it without asking but at least that would show some consideration for if you were consenting / ok with it.

3rd time of sleeping with someone (and only 7-8 times of meeting) feels very soon for him to presume you would consent to that. Not that you ever should presume.

If he hasn't been in touch since that suggests he realises he's done something wrong.

Do you know his STI status for definite? As awful as it is to think about if you are in any doubt and as this is still quite recent (I think?) I would consider getting help and taking PrEP to eliminate the risk of HIV. I think you have to take it within 72 hours.

Not only did he not seek explicit consent for anal, he initiated sex while the OP was asleep and could not consent to ANY sexual activity.

I didn't even see that.

3rd time of sleeping with someone (and only 7-8 times of meeting) feels very soon for him to presume you would consent to that. Not that you ever should presume

This too.

Op, I've had sex with a couple of the most promiscuous, verging on scummy, womanisers you could ever meet (I obviously didn't fully realise when involved with them), they both suggested anal sex at some point.

And by suggested, I mean they verbally suggested/asked.

Even they - two guys I'd consider morally bankrupt and from countries with appallingly misogynist, unequal cultures - raised it and didn't just try to start anal sex with me while having vaginal sex.

If men do not understand that they do not have consent if they haven’t, ya know, made any effort to obtain consent, we need a MAJOR public education campaign. School, tv ads, posters in every workplace and men’s loo in the country.

Are there great swathes of men who have a reasonable belief that they can take an item from a shop without paying? Or drive at 120mph? Or snatch a granny’s handbag?

Did he ever ask if you were ok or if you liked it?

No, it wasn't spoken about at all. Which made me wonder if he even realised and if it could have been a mistake.

But of course that won’t happen. As I’ve said earlier in this thread, going by posts on here there would be women up in arms that their sons, partners, fathers were being held legally accountable for their actions. 10% of men would be convicted sex offenders. Maybe more. So of course we’ll never punish the men, we’ll just keep letting women suffer.

Are there any men here arguing that they could possibly have had a reasonable belief OP consented? It was so obviously a case where seeking active consent was required, regardless of women posting they would have been OK with it. So what if they would?

There have been some weird deviants posting on this thread doing their utmost to justify rape. We have a rape problem in the UK and they're evidence of it.

Just to be clear, are we saying that waking up to neck kissing constitutes sexual assault, or the beginning of it in this case?

You know this was wrong. Your feelings confirm this, and they are 100% valid. Do you think it might be worth having a chat with rape crisis?

Of course, if you feel it would help to report this, then by all means please do so. Ignore posters on here telling you otherwise. I don't think it would go anywhere personally, but it may be good in case he does it again to someone and at least it's then on record.

I am seriously thinking about putting together an online portal so women can report rapes anonymously, and give an account of their perpetrator, and what happened. It will be used as a type of screening service for any potential partner. I know this may sound like a wild idea but the cps, police and cjs are failing women in the most abhorant way. Also thinking of putting together information that dispell the myths and stereotypes of rape victims. Would welcome any thoughts and support in doing this.

I'm a tad confused by this if you're in a 2 month relationship, have had 7 or 8 dates, and this happened on the third date, how have you not spoken since? Perhaps you mean not spoken of it, rather than not spoken in a general sense?
Probably would of been better to have not seen him since. Best course is to dump, you don't need to talk about it and have it out. If you carry on as was with him it's likely to happen again as he will be under the impression that it's fine by you. If you don't want a repeat, just dump and get STI tested, he's a health risk, particularly as he bearbacks too.

I don't know for sure as I'm female but I think they know the difference. I think it feels different.

This is super personal but this exact situation actually happened to me too a long time ago. Even same position. But with a longer term partner. I reacted the exact same way as you. And I also wondered: is this an accident? Does he realise? But afterwards he said something like 'I've been wanting to do that for ages' 🙄So I think they do know.

A rape charity as others have suggested may be more able to talk through how likely it was that it was a genuine mistake.

The only other option would be to talk with him but I understand that's not likely to be very appealing. If you did, I'd suggest playing it very neutral so he doesn't feel attacked and immediately jump to 'I had no idea. It was a complete accident.' Saying something like 'You know yesterday morning, we'd never done that before..' is more likely to give you a truthful response about whether he intended it e.g. 'Yeah it was great' or 'What do you mean?' (because he actually has no idea you did anything different.)

You woke up to him kissing you and starting to do it? So he started while you were asleep and out for the count after taking a valium???

That is RAPE, while you were unconscious! Instead of Rohypnol, you were out of it an unconscious on valium. Not even those defending this as 'reasonable belief of consent' (paraphrasing) can any longer deny she was RAPED WHILE KNOCKED OUT ON VALIUM.

Please, a speak to a Rape Crisis Centre asap, and please press charges for rape.

I think she meant it was their 7 or 8th date but the 3rd time / date on which they'd had sex.