realising male friends are garbage

[sadmillenial]

This is a rant, i know, so bear with me

Im 41 and fairly recently single, and since putting myself on dating apps i have had advances from almost all my single male friends. Even those i have known for years and considered proper mates.

This is not a humble brag to show how awesome i am, lol. These guys are very open about the fact they dont want a relationship with me but are open to "respectful sex that has mutually agreed boundaries" They are also almost exclusively in their 30s.

Do i just have terrible taste in friends, or are all men opportunistic arseholes??

Go online on a dating site and state you are up for some "Fun" see how many offers you will get , plus as a woman you could walk into a pub tonight and get sex if that's what you wanted .

Doesn't surprise me.

There are often threads on here by women whose husbands have suddenly become friends with a new woman at work or at the gym etc. The women are invariably younger than them and invariably attractive and the men desperately trying to convince their wives it's just friendship. Funny how they never make friends with 60 year old Maureen who works in payroll.

Again, no.

Say you only want fun, cool, but you still have to vet the guy to see that he's safe. You also have to fancy him.

I have 700 matches on bumble atm, I'm pretty much looking for fun as I won't be in this location more than a month. It says 'fun company'. I messaged maybe 15 of them last week, 2 replied
...one was creepy and the second one was a love bomber and felt fake af. So yesterday I messaged 4 more. One replied and he wasn't, it turned out, actually in my city.

I've never pulled in a pub. They're not really 'pulling' environments are they?
I've pulled in nightclubs plenty but I feel at 34 I'm a bit old for them now. Plus you have to consider thar you usually need a group of mates to go to these places with. Often women fund their friends start having kids etc and won't go out anymore much.

Also, even if ypu snog someone in a club, as a woman you might not feel safe taking them home or going to there's.

If you think it's easier to get sex, you're wrong.

The only constraint on a man is that the girl fancies him (and he doesn't come accross as a creep or weirdo and scare her off). Sometimes that's a hard line to meet though tbf.

That's just not true, if they're open to 'all' women then yes the vast majority of them will be able to get sex.
Look at the Jeremy Kyle types, they have no issue getting many sexual partners.

In the days when I played video games online, the moment it became known you're female my goodness men boys/men changed. Suddenly inundated in attention, gifts, anything. It was irritating, not least because having been sent unwanted gifts, you'd end up with some getting aggro because you weren't interested in them. Then I figured out how to prevent it happening - I said straight off I was a 60yo grandmother. Solved the problem straight away :D

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress @kkloo

It's self-evident that your issue isn't with men making a move on women that are friends.

Your issue is with these types of men:

"most of us have dealt with the 'nice guys', the entitled ones, the pushy ones etc, the ones who assault us"
"The vast majority of women on this thread have had extensive experience of men who can't keep the boundaries. Which is why a lot of us loose all faith in most men's ability to exercise some self control, be considerate of women"

@Pinkbonbon But they couldn't easily have sex.

As I said, if you lower your standards and are prepared to have sex with less attractive people, then you will find sex very easily. That doesn't work for men.

If anything men could get sex easier because they don't have to worry about saftey.

Of course they do. Why on earth would men not have to worry about safety? Men are made of the same flesh and blood that women are made of. That was a strange comment to make and I'm not entirely sure what was meant by it.

I know exactly what my issue is with what sort of men. You really aren't listening at all.

@kkloo That's just not true, if they're open to 'all' women then yes the vast majority of them will be able to get sex.

The data shows that simply is not true. There was a graph floating around on the internet which showed that 1/3 of men have not had sex within the past year. I am sure a substantial number of those men are actively looking.

Look at the Jeremy Kyle types, they have no issue getting many sexual partners.

That's as much a mystery to me as it is to you.

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress In the days when I played video games online, the moment it became known you're female my goodness men boys/men changed.

This was a problem in the earlier days of household internet, but its uncommon now. The overwhelming majority of internet users and online gamers in the early 2000s were teenagers and young men. Back then, their minds were blown at the idea of a woman playing video games. The internet and gaming became more mainstream from about 2010 onwards, so nowadays, no one cares when women play games.

That's the difference though. Most men would sleep with most women given the opportunity. It doesn't work the other way.

Nope, I have an issue with more than that.

As I said, if you lower your standards and are prepared to have sex with less attractive people, then you will find sex very easily.

What do you think that that sex is like for women? I wouldn't call it 'sex' myself because it's likely to be unpleasant, give them no pleasure and possibly even be traumatic. What you're really saying is that we can find men willing to stick their dicks in us very easily, that's not the same as being able to get 'sex' if you want to at least assume that 'sex' is something that you get at least some pleasure from.

That doesn't work for men

Yes it does!

Men are made of the same flesh and blood that women are made of. That was a strange comment to make and I'm not entirely sure what was meant by it.

Don't be so ridiculous.

Silly to bring 'data' into it and then refer to just a graph that was 'floating around' and expect that to prove anything about what you're saying, this little graph on the internet doesn't even help your argument because some of those people some could be in sexless relationships, some could be happy to be celibate, some could have sexual dysfunction, some might not have bothered looking for sex, there's loads of reasons...

@kkloo What you're really saying is that we can find men willing to stick their dicks in us very easily, that's not the same as being able to get 'sex' if you want to at least assume that 'sex' is something that you get at least some pleasure from.

Then it's up to you to be upfront about the kind of sex you want to have, and unless it's something extremely strange, again, that will be extremely easy to find.

Yes it does!

Again, this is contradicted by the data. Match rate for men on Tinder is 0.6%. That means for 140 swipes, men receive one match. And that's only a match- the match could not to reply, block, not agree to a date, agree to a date but not agree to follow up dates, agree to multiple dates but not a relationship.

Silly to bring 'data' into it and then refer to just a graph that was 'floating around'

It's extremely easy to find.

some of those people some could be in sexless relationships, some could be happy to be celibate, some could have sexual dysfunction, some might not have bothered looking for sex,

All of these reasons account for a small minority of men. So how do you explain the data?

Dating sites didn't exist in my 20s. I did sometimes go to pubs on my own (occasionally still do,) and I did not have men approaching me. I recently saw some photos of me in my uni years, and I don't think I was at all repulsive, but mostly men just didn't seem to notice me.

It's different now I'm in my 50s and with OLD - I could more than one every night, if I really wanted (though I don't have time for that many, as I have a busy life anyway.) I have a handful of FWBs, some I knew first IRL, a couple I met online. I have other male friends where it won't ever happen. If they're friends because they hope one day I might, they have to keep waiting. They've never mentioned it, and as I'm available and non-monogamous, and wouldn't be offended if they asked (they might be offended if I said no, I don't know,) they haven't much to lose by asking - obviously many others here would be upset by it. To keep asking would be unwelcome. But as long as they carry on with the friendship side of things, be it talking about history or art or landscape or whatever, I don't care of they're thinking about it. I think about all sorts of things I wouldn't necessarily voice (nor even post here.)

If it was so easy for men to get sex , if women were so keen to jump in the sack without any dating , willing to participate in threesomes , group sex with no inhibitions any time , any place there would not be the amount of porn sites and knocking shops .

Women are the gatekeepers of sex and men resent it massively. Men have to work hard to get sex as very few women just lay on straight on a plate for any man . You only have to read some posts on here from men to see that sex is not easy to come by and that if they are in a real relationship they have to initiate sex .

If anything men could get sex easier because they don't have to worry about saftey.
Of course they do. Why on earth would men not have to worry about safety? Men are made of the same flesh and blood that women are made of. That was a strange comment to make and I'm not entirely sure what was meant by it.

I think men's worries are different. They don't have to worry about getting pregnant (though they should worry about getting women pregnant.) They should worry about STIs, but very few will mention condoms if you don't bring it up, IME. The average man is stronger than the average women, so that's less of a concern for them - less, not no.

The 'type of sex' that most women want is sex with someone they like and are attracted to. Not just physical acts. I'm sure I could find many men who are willing to do whatever I want in bed, but that is no good for me at all if I don't like the man, fancy him or have any sexual chemistry with him.

A small amount of men???
Sexless relationships and dead bedrooms are on the rise. Sexual dysfunction is on the rise and at a lower age, apparently people are also choosing to be celibate for many reasons....
So the data from that chart that was 'floating around' is explained by those things. Surely that floating chart was accompanied by some possible explanations and backed by more robust 'data' which you should have been able to read or did you just see the chart and assign your own meaning to it and then call that 'data?

@EBearhug I think men's worries are different. They don't have to worry about getting pregnant (though they should worry about getting women pregnant.) They should worry about STIs, but very few will mention condoms if you don't bring it up, IME. The average man is stronger than the average women, so that's less of a concern for them - less, not no.

And what if I go to a woman's house and there is a man waiting there, or multiple men?

@kkloo The 'type of sex' that most women want is sex with someone they like and are attracted to. Not just physical acts. I'm sure I could find many men who are willing to do whatever I want in bed, but that is no good for me at all if I don't like the man, fancy him or have any sexual chemistry with him.

Well yes, that was our point. Any woman could easily find sex, and any kind of sex, that they want, but women are choosing not to. Again, the same is not true of men.

Surely that floating chart was accompanied by some possible explanations and backed by more robust 'data' which you should have been able to read or did you just see the chart and assign your own meaning to it and then call that 'data?

Possible explanations were suggested by the researchers who generated the graph, but they were only hypotheses.

I also told you that the match rate for men was 0.6% (1 match for every 140 right swipes). What are your thoughts on that?

No, it's not that they 'choose' not to. It's not a choice to not be attracted to someone and to not have chemistry with them. If I'm not attracted to the 100 men in the pub who want to have sex with me then I don't have any option to choose to have the sex I want with any of those men do I? seeing as the criteria is that I actually fancy them and have chemistry with them.

Aw so the actual researchers only came up with hypotheses, yet you know the exact answer 😂and that it's that men simply can't find women willing to have sex with them. You've also decided that sexual dysfunction, dead bedrooms etc only apply to a minority. Again presumably you reached that conclusion from the 'data' you made up in your head.

My thoughts on the tinder stat are that for the men who are genuinely seeing sex many will like everyone because they're not fussy because they know that they will at least get something out of the sex, such as pleasure. But that women know that they won't hence why they're not going to swipe right on every man they see.

Also that tinder matches mean fuck all in the grand scheme of things, because many women say that the men they match with don't even message them or they unmatch them...so it seems that in many cases Tinder users are not even trying to have sex with the people they swipe on. So all it means is that men have a low match rate, and the 'data' doesn't show anything beyond that that.

Some people just match on Tinder for someone to talk to and maybe flirt with for a while because they're bored and want an ego boost and that's that..and then they move onto the next..or delete the app.

The stat isn't actually measuring their willingness to have sex, versus their ability to actually get it.

Then you'd be in trouble, wouldn't you? But that's not the point at issue is it? The point was that men don't take safety into account as women do. Mainly because the risk is far far smaller as stats and male behaviour patterns evidence. But also because..."I'm not going back to have sex with you because I'm scared you'll have a load of men waiting there to attack me" said no man offered sex ever. Honestly, they broke the mould with you Shuggles. Most men that wouldn't even cross their mind.

Exactly this is the point..

Women have standards and criteria, but if we dropped that then any of us get sex within the day.
That poster is talking about how difficult it is, but then goes to mention having standards.

The same can't be true of all men, who regularly do lose all standards when they desperately want a shag but still can't get anyone.

Incel culture is built entirely around the fact that some men want to have sex with women and can't, and they then build a whole edifice about the problem with women, feminism, lookism, and so on, but the plain fact is no women want to sleep with them and they are very angry as a result.

It's entirely justified by the way, that the women want nothing to do with them, but they are very cross that women basically would either rather go without or wait til a better offer comes along than sleep with some of them.

I hung around in a mostly male group in my twenties and realised then how much most men would bend the rules of being nice guys to get sex. There is no whole sex industry built around women paying for sex, is there?

I do still believe that men and women can be friends, but pretending no-one ever had a fleeting thought 'would I shag X?' is a bit naive. My male friends have proved trustworthy over time, or have strong reasons not to stray, or I've known them for over 30 years and we worked it all out a long time ago. I'm not interested in transforming the friendship into a relationship and they know that. I don't care what they think in their heads though, who knows what goes through mine in an idle moment?

And if we dropped the standards the sex would be likely to be unpleasant and we'd get no pleasure from it and I wouldn't really call that sex tbh.

The men who desperately want a shag will get something from it, pleasure and a release. So it's different.

Would those men be so desperate to have a shag if it was deeply unpleasant and they didn't get any sexual pleasure? No, no they wouldn't.

They'd be doing what most women do which is to avoid having sex with people unless they specifically like them and want them.

@kkloo Also that tinder matches mean fuck all in the grand scheme of things, because many women say that the men they match with don't even message them or they unmatch them...so it seems that in many cases Tinder users are not even trying to have sex with the people they swipe on. So all it means is that men have a low match rate, and the 'data' doesn't show anything beyond that that.

That's because men on Tinder have such a low match rate that some of them just swipe right on every single profile just to see what happens.

If men had a higher match rate, then they wouldn't do that.

@5128gap The point was that men don't take safety into account as women do.

No it wasn't. Read the original post. It said that men don't have to think about safety.

Safety is also an issue for men, but clearly many men take risks and I don't dispute that.

@Decaffeinatedplease Incel culture is built entirely around the fact that some men want to have sex with women and can't, and they then build a whole edifice about the problem with women, feminism, lookism, and so on, but the plain fact is no women want to sleep with them and they are very angry as a result.

Pointing out that there are many men that no women want to have sex with, and the fact that attractive people do have a major advantage in life, well, these are very clear and obvious facts. But stating that is not "incel culture." The anger, hatred, and violence are the defining aspects of incel culture.