realising male friends are garbage

[sadmillenial]

This is a rant, i know, so bear with me

Im 41 and fairly recently single, and since putting myself on dating apps i have had advances from almost all my single male friends. Even those i have known for years and considered proper mates.

This is not a humble brag to show how awesome i am, lol. These guys are very open about the fact they dont want a relationship with me but are open to "respectful sex that has mutually agreed boundaries" They are also almost exclusively in their 30s.

Do i just have terrible taste in friends, or are all men opportunistic arseholes??

The point is, him trying it on changes the dynamic completely - he makes the whole situation awkward. How are you not getting this?

I'm pretty sure shuggles is male, which is why he's defending this crap.

@HornyHornersPinkyWinky I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse just to wind people up or not...

Definitely not. I've been utterly confused reading what people have been saying.

Of course it's a bad thing, it means they never really saw you as a friend at all;

Sorry, are friendship and sexual attraction mutually exclusive now? What?
So if two people are in a relationship, they can't be friends and they have to hate each other?
Why can't person A have a sexual attraction to person B and be person B's friend at the same time?

Most men would have sex with most women. Statistically, this means friendships between men and women with no sexual attraction (or at least, no desire to act on a sexual attraction) are rare. The only way to avoid that is to have no male friends.

(or you could be my friend, because my sex drive is so low and I feel so tired these days that I wouldn't make a move on any woman).

You can have sexual attraction to whoever you like, but don't try and act on it just because your friend happens to be single for 5 minutes...

No. I have some close male friends who I have known for 40 years or more. They are good decent people- not all men are wrong uns!

@HornyHornersPinkyWinky You can have sexual attraction to whoever you like, but don't try and act on it just because your friend happens to be single for 5 minutes...

I can see why that would be an issue because acting on it when your friend is upset that a relationship ended 5 minutes ago would be bad timing.

But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is, more generally, about the idea that it's wrong for men to have sex with women friends in general.

@Sooka Ding ding we have a winner! We agree most men are out for all they can get and only friend women who they either fancy or think they have a chance of shagging one day. And Im sorry but I'm not down for that sort of friendship.

Why not? Don't shag them.

You are a women, they know you, you are in the market. They are testing the waters. If they got the price, oh well! They are not going to complain, are they. They are chancing, tell them to fuck off, as a mate, they will understand.

Did you not read the OP? That's exactly what it's about - she was hit on by male friends after recently coming out of a relationship.

@HornyHornersPinkyWinky OK, so immediately out of a relationship is bad timing. But why is it a bad thing in principle? And why is it still bad after the dust has settled from the previous relationship?

You're beyond ... naive ... at the very best interpretation.

When you come out of a relationship, it's very often not one male friend who'll come on. You're upset, you're sad, then the texts angling to help 'comfort' you come through and as soon as you've had a bit of a cry, the lips come down on yours. You might even fall for it the first time, when you're vulnerable.

Then you get the next friend texting to come over and 'comfort' you.

Then the next.

Then the next.

Then the next, who might well be married because if you really think that some married men don't try it on - well, you can't possibly be that stupid.

Then the next.

It's not at ALL what you want.

So you carry on being faux-naive and pushing your agenda, but frankly when you're in that situation you learn pretty damn quick that it's about 5% of men who will genuinely be there in the bad times, and the rest are buzzing like flies around the honey, and you realise that when you're looking for friendship and comfort, you can only look to your female friends. The men (mostly) need a fecking fly swat, and all you're left with is disillusionment and an awareness that almost no men will respect your sadness. All they're after is their comfort, and you're a convenient warm hole.

There, just in case you really did need it explaining. Which I don't believe for a moment.

@Newstarts1

I think women need to stop thinking that the opposite sex are basically animals

Well we are animals, and women don't think that in a vacuum.

Most develop this type of view after experiencing repeated behaviour that reduces them down mainly or solely to their reproduce function.

It feels like a betrayal if a long standing platonic friend suddenly when you become single ( from her pov ) expresses that they want to change the relationship to a sexual one.
You are left feeling like this friendship has been developed under false pretences and then they usually kick off emotionally or stop being so friendly when rebuffed which means they never just wanted to be your friend, they had alterior motives.

It's disgusting and repellent.

If you are sexually attracted to someone ask them out, let them know ASAP but don't hang around pretending to be someone you're not in the hopes you get to fuck her at some point.

I fancy quite a few of my male friends. I don't make passes at them or try to sleep with them, but I don't find them sexually repellant, we have just come to a mutual understanding that's not happening, ever, in decades. I do have one or two I don't fancy at all and would never go there, but I don't only have male friends I don't fancy at all, it's just a fact of life that sometimes for me, some of my male friends are reasonably attractive. I'm not interested in them for relationships as most of them would make bad partners or are not single!

Because many of us don't like it and it changes the dynamic.

Often they can be shitty when they're turned down too which makes you think the whole friendship was fake.

And often the come ons are accompanied by declarations of feelings that they've apparently had for a long time....so either they're lying to get sex from someone who is supposed to be their friend in which case they're pricks OR they genuinely have had unrequited feelings for years, therefore it feels awkward to stay friends with them.

In the OPs case they're all asking for FWB situations which everyone knows can be extremely risky because often one person will develop feelings, so therefore they're risking the friendship for the sake of sex, therefore they don't seem like a real friend.

These guys are very open about the fact they dont want a relationship with me but are open to "respectful sex that has mutually agreed boundaries"

There isn't many women out there who is going to be flattered by a male friend saying something like that to them. It comes across like they think the woman is good enough for sex but that's it, the mutually agreed boundaries will no doubt be no cuddling afterwards and probably minimal contact "in case she develops feelings".

This. I do sleep with some of them. I enjoy sex, they're available, we like each other and trust each other. Don't see the problem. It doesn't suit everyone, but it's also fine ti say no.

its jolly decent off them...up front and honest .
be careful of..."iv never felt like this for anyone before"

I had this problem in my early 20s but now in my 30s and I'm not even acquainted with anyone I think would do this. The difference is that back then I had no self awareness. My best friend is a guy and the only one who hasn't pulled this in over 20 years.

No offence meant but most men will shag anything

Agree with this OP.

Nothing to do with sex, if you're someone who dates friends that's not what this is.

It is a really, really nasty, icky feeling - implies that if you're a single female you're desperate and at the bottom of a social hierarchy.

And once you're at the bottom of the social hierarchy, you can be kicked around and bullied socially, have no genuine support, be rejected, but be passed around every man going who shows an interest.

Obviously consenting adults can do what they like privately, no-one to be slut-shamed etc.

But we are social creatures, and if your modern tribe/community (people you call friends) are eroding your self-esteem and making it clear you are just a sexual and social resource rather than a human being, of course it feels incredibly threatening.

Its essentially Othering single women and implying they aren't really worthy, proper human beings.

Friendship or companionship or feeling part of a regular safe space or community is so important for mental wellbeing.

It's basically a passive-aggressive way of saying to a woman "you're not REALLY wanted or welcomed" .

Definitely more a power/status thing than an attraction thing.

Feels very competitive and manipulative and calculated, rather than spontaneous authentic attraction.

Often the guys who do this shit seem to feel threatened or competitive so try to set up women by making out they're trying to steal them from their partners. Get them a reputation in a workplace or network or a friendship group.

And unfortunately other women often won't support another woman if some blokes in the group start seeing her this way.

It's essentially social assassination and trying to get a woman isolated and losing her network ..,,, "she had Robert round at hers, and then Mark.. can't have her round for parties!".

Or implying they "could" have women if they wanted and all these women are begging them for commitment they wouldn't even want them if they were single.

I do agree there are OK groups and men, but predators like this try to basically stop women from trusting ok new people.

I agree it is horrific, but to any women going through this, please don't shut yourself off from new support networks as a result.

Be wary and cautious, and maybe cut back on 1-1 interactions. But there are OK people as well as toxic people.

It's so depressing how many women here understand this feeling. So much wisdom here. I'm another who would have argued these people must just have bad friends till I experienced it myself. Absolutely not all men are like that. But they are out there in such numbers that most of us will probably feel this at some point in their life if we haven't already experienced it

Yeah this.

I tend to banter a lot with male friends. So if any tried it on would humiliate them via banter.

Tbh I see no problem with this.

Everyone is single and they did tell you straightforward what they are up for. They respected your relationship but are now letting you know.

You can be friends with someone and find them attractive. I mean, unless you on purpuse befriend just ugly people.
Tbh it is deluded to think male friends and colleagues would not shag you if they had a chance.