Is people pleasing manipulative?

[Lookatthesun83]

I’m just wondering. I have a family member who literally lives by trying to please everyone. Going out of their way to appear perfect and nice and overly accommodating.

That’s the thing when you talk in person she is extremely judgmental about others. For example the reason she ended up leaving another job and on anti anxiety meds was because people didn’t like her despite her being absolutely amazing lovely and perfect in her eyes. She can’t understand why people don’t like her, she says they all toxic. Not everyone will like a sickly sweet person, some people like some character and some differing opinions and identities. She wants to like her way into relationships by being really nice and going out of her way and saying what you want to hear. It has worked with family but she has no friends.

I think perhaps the poster who said it’s a trauma response maybe right. If I’m nice then people will like me and I need to be liked. Surely that’s manipulating because you need people to feel a certain way.

@ElspethofEcclefechan yes, this is the point I was trying to make. I don't see what she is doing as people pleasing.

Most us people pleasers are not dark characters. Instead, many of us have been victims of those dark manipulative types our entire lives - hence becoming people pleasers. I don't feel that our pleasing comes from a dark place, unlike say the manipulative behaviours of narcissists.

SIL sounds a wrongun. I'd keep her at arms length.

My colleague is like this. Lovely to everyone and comes across a people pleaser but she’s sly and tried to pick on me and eventually get me into trouble. I’m a people pleaser full stop.

I still don't think you've given examples of her being a people pleaser. Saying "nice things" about people is NOT people pleasing. People pleasers would be rushing to agree to have 10 people over for a meat fest buffet when they a) hate cooking b) are a vegetarian c) have been sick for 3 weeks.

the more you post the more it sounds like she might be a covert narcissist. So they want people to like them and think they're great, and might do the odd performative big gesture (volunteer at an event or ostentatiously donate loads of money to a good cause or express endless sympathy for NDN after an accident for example) but day to day, they're actually extraordinarily selfish and 100% cannot and will not take responsibility for anything. As they get older, they do find it harder and harder to hold down jobs and relationships (family, friends, partner). I'm not sure why but I think in part it's because the victim mentality becomes never ending and people start to see through it and also possibly because as they get older the victim mentality is so entrenched they can't even hide it enough for a short time. Eg I know one who managed to somehow old onto the same job for a long time, but having left that job, has been fired repeatedly from new jobs. The most egregious one being when, during his probation/training period, he was not doing the basic things he had been asked to do and, when challenged, aggressively told his new boss it was because he didn't agree with having to do it and he had more experience so he wasn't going to do it. He was escorted from the building shortly thereafter.

@Pantaloons99 how do you behave when your attempts don’t work? This person goes straight to the get rid of the toxic person quotes. If I’m honest I feel like she attracts people who like/need people pleasers.

Ok maybe you are right here. She does get very defensive when her attempts don’t work. It’s not her it’s everyone else. Most of the world to be honest as she is perfect. Perhaps I’m using the wrong term. Her partner my BIL has to have the best of everything, the biggest house, the biggest this and that, the most expensive clothes. He also has no friends, they are too perfect and the rest of us are toxic apparently.

Yup, more and more like a covert narcisist. Or just a plain old controlling, abusive wanker personality.

Do they have DC?

I think it's a good start to know what you're dealing with - which you're doing here. @IdLikeToBeAFraser has given excellent examples of what people pleasers do - it's allowing others to crap all over us and having a real fear of asserting boundaries due to the repurcussions.

I have grown up with and know covert narcissists. This behaviour you describe is what they can do.
You feel uncomfortable around her so there's something you need to be cautious about.
You can keep these people at arms length emotionally even if you have to be around them.
You just see them for what they are and don't get dragged into the drama. Tell them nothing personal and don't expect anything from them without an ulterior motive. That's very hard to accept I know.

Yes two and they are perfect also. They have no friends because the mum has to approve and no one is good and kind enough for them so she keeps them at home with her baking cakes and doing house stuff.

I feel uncomfortable because you can’t read who they are as a person. You can’t laugh and joke about life. Everything revolves around the perfect things they do. You can’t get in to see who they are, it’s like a fake smile mask all the time without fail. I’ve felt it from the very start but thought I was just being unkind but many of my partners family are nice and open people. I need to trust my feelings really.

"I honestly think she needs to have people thank her and think she is amazing."

That sounds more like attention seeking. It could be seen as manipulative if she does things in order to get people to thank her and tell her she's amazing rather than because she wants to do them.

If that's the case, its quite a narcissistic trait.

But it's also a chronic anxiety trait too - do these things so people like her and think she's a nice, helpful, kind person. Having said that, telling other people how amazing and wonderful she is (bigging herself up) is not something a shy anxious person would do unless saying in joke/fishing for compliments/validation.

Only you will know if she's doing it with malicious intent.

I think she sounds very insecure. In my experience, insecure people need to control everything around them and she has found that her ‘Miss Perfect’ act accomplishes this. It’s fake, evidenced by her causing trouble between you and your MIL.

Nonsense that she ‘can’t’ work because she worries that colleagues won’t like her, this experience is pretty commonplace in many peoples working lives. They just crack on with it because, well… bills!

Yes, she is manipulating everyone around her to give her the lifestyle that she wants. I think you see right through her and I expect others do, too.

This is very sad. A lot of narcissistic woman land up taking out their behaviours on their children. So to the outside world, they'll be all about how amazing and perfect their children are etc. But at home, those children are probably constantly the butt of endless criticism, guilt trips etc.

"People who find people pleasing manipulative, rather than just trying to be a decent person, are likely to be nice to someone only when they want something. They are the manipulative ones."

@HughsMermaid I disagree with you here. People pleasing has nothing to do with trying to be a decent person, but rather, trying to make sure that the person in front of you "likes" you and has no cause to be upset by you. What happens, as the OP has pointed out, when the person opposite you is being an arse? Or sexist or racist etc.? I know many people pleasers who would never call out that behaviour or even walk away from it just in case the instigator turns on them or starts to dislike them.

I dislike people pleasers because I feel like I never get to know them. I never know if they're genuine in their interactions with me. I can never tell if they enjoy my company or would rather not be around me. It's very tiresome. The opposite of people pleasers are not narcissists who are only nice to get what they want, but rather, people who are able to say no to things they don't want to do, and able to be honest about how they feel and what they think.

Fundamentally I think people pleasing is dishonest.

In my experience, people pleasers end up pleading no one and annoying others. Because they never assert themselves or say no, this can lead to complicated circumstances. I find the behaviour bizarre and actually a little bit selfish as if they can't bear for anyone to think badly of them and you never know what they're really thinking.

I don’t think so. The kids are perfect in her eyes, she tells them, she doesn’t criticise them at all. They are sweet girls but they are a lot like the mum, little people pleasers who don’t trust people because the mum has taught them that she is all they need. She says they will live at home forever.

People pleasing isn't just being kind or thoughtful or selfless. It's not sharing your thoughts or opinions so that other people will be perceive you in the way you want them to. That is inherently manipulative, but it doesn't mean the person doing it is bad or duplicitous. It IS an unhealthy behaviour though, and lying by omission is still lying.

People pleasers can often become resentful because they feel they are giving a lot more to relationships (and that may be true) but relationships shouldn't be transactional.

It can be especially problematic in romantic relationships. If you aren't being your true self you are robbing the other person of being able to make an informed decision about whether the relationship is right for them. For example "I want a relationship, so I will pretend to be the person he wants so that I can have a relationship". Meanwhile, the other person is completely unaware that their new partner doesn't actually like half of the dates he plans.

@Lookatthesun83 try growing up in that! It's really horrible I understand. You have to grieve the hope of having a nice relationship there because you absolutely won't.

Covert narcissistic people are incredibly insecure. Shame and insecurity are their core so everything they do is a reflection of that. You just have to find a way to accept it. She sounds awful. I wouldn't want to be around that or engage with that much so it's no great loss hopefully for you.

Just be a decent genuine person and others around you will see the truth. It's best to keep any bitching to online here than doing it to anyone else at all in the family. They're very good at playing victims and will lie endlessly about everything.

All of this!

People-pleasing is a subconscious reaction to having been manipulated into it by others for a very long time.

I think you're being taken in by this narcissist's behaviour. of course she doesn't criticise them to you. That's the point. These children get massively fucked up because in public, they are perfect, and amazing. But at home.... not so much. And they are taught that they can only be with her and must do only what she wants and that will fuck up their lives when they are older.

Thanks for understanding and not just thinking I’m some bitchy SIL. I’ve just often felt something was off. Over the years I’ve invited them over numerous times, we’ve been in the park next to them and asked if the kids wanted to come out and play but always an excuse. To be honest Id have no idea how to talk to her but I still invited.

You certainly can change. I hit 50 and my people pleasing days were mostly over. I used to do “experiments” where I would consciously decide not to offer help or change my plans, just said “No, can’t do it” A few raised eyebrows but no one died.

Hmmmmm well she was 17 when pregnant and I don’t want to sound like a terrible person but I’m sure my MIL is a covert narcissist like people have described. Their son was older and got her pregnant and she has been raised with their views.