Me again-8 husband shaming me for history continued

[Wafflepies]

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5120486-husband-being-nasty-about-my-past?page=14&reply=136908235 www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5120486-husband-being-nasty-about-my-past?page=14&reply=136908235

It's me again with another new thread and new username. Have linked previous thread above.

I doubt he'd google my username but still felt I couldn't carry on speaking incase.

He isn't angry with me for starting the thread
But extremely defensive about the comments.

It's not surprising t all that he 'talks you round' when you discuss things, OP - that's what abusive men do! It just CANNOT be his fault!

Deep down, even though you love him/he used to be lovely/you have kids with him, you know you're not happy and you know you don't want to raise your kids with a 'man' who thinks/acts that way.

Take back some control, OP. It's up to YOU what you will/will not put up with. Not us and certainly not him!

I was referring to the poster who you thought was entitled to an apology for people misinterpreting her (wide open) post.

The problem is you've been mentally abused so much to the point that even though youre aware his behaviour is wrong, and cruel. You believe he loves you, this is not love. It's control.

You don't have to do anything you don't want to it's your life but most people would tell you to leave this relationship. It's toxic, harmful and your children to think of too.

In no way am I blaming you at all. But unless you do something this will be your life. I understand how clever these type of men are I've been there, I was younger, and thankfully I got away. Even though I had months of threats so I do understand and I thought he loved me at the time.

You have to ask yourself is this the life I want. I know you love him but it's not the current him that you love. It's the one he pretended to be.

You are in a controlling abusive relationship op. Unfortunately instead of being sorry he's doubling down.

He won't change. You just need to figure out what you want and how to leave him....

You have done nothing wrong. Nothing.

I would put it to him that he is obviously very unhappy, he feels he's married to a slut, he feels he's married to a woman who was more attracted to/in love with an ex (because she sent him a tame photo he badgered her for).

He's raising this regularly; resulting in conflict, tension, stress ... it's bleeding out into family life with children witnessing their Mum in distress.

He's not happy, at all. He feels he's made a mistake in terms of his choice of wife etc.

So what does he want to do? I would ask him that repeatedly, over and over, what does he want to do?

His wife can never be a virgin on marriage for him. His wife cannot unsend a tame photo to her ex while in a relationship with that ex, his wife cannot undo not voluntarily sending him a similar photo during their relationship.
She cannot undo dating him, having sex with him before marriage (which he wanted), accepting his proposal or getting pregnant with the children he impregnated her with.
There is no time machine.
So what does he want?

Does he want to end the marriage, and make co parenting arrangements?

If he wants to stay in this masochistic (and sadistic) hamster wheel, going over and over this (nonsense) for the foreseeable future, he must do that alone.
Because he has no right to force you (and by proxy your kids) to be in there with him.

Ok then why reply to me? I'm not following anymore so I think I'd best just leave it

If nothing else made me dump him and run the fact you have a DD would do it. I'm not a DM but if I was I wouldn't let any man, father or not, tell me his DD was supposed to grow up to be some man's possession, someone whose only value lay in her virginity. Please Op, do your DD a big favour, take her away

I think when someone is domineering & abusive the stress can cause some sort of trauma bond, some sort of automatic unconscious reaction makes you surrender yourself. A kind of calculation is made (outside of conscious awareness) that, because he is physically able to overpower you, your best bet is to comply/placate & obey him.
I think that's part of it.

He was very annoyed about being called controlling

I dated a guy who stated "no, I'm not controlling".

He, from three months in, didn't want us to ever socialise separately.
Since I wouldn't agree to no separate socialising, he wanted me to tell him in advance if I was going to socialise.
If I didn't tell him beforehand that I was going to socialise (which I also didn't agree to) he would accuse me of being deceitful and tell me the trust was broken & the relationship was over (but not actually end it).
He made comments on my clothing - actually what I said I'd worn (because he wasn't there to see it). For example me saying that I must have put on some weight - because my usual long witch costume dress was now too tight - became "aye and you wore a short, tight dress!".
He told he I was acting like a single girl if I socialised separately.
If I mentioned speaking to a male ex colleague I bumped into in the street, he would criticise me for it afterward.
If I spoke to a married man I was vaguely acquainted with, while both of us standing beside him, he would criticise me for it afterwards.
When I said I used to visit a gay male friend abroad occasionally, he informed me that "that wouldn't be happening with me!".
On the two occasions I left my phone behind accidentally at his home, he went through every message with a fine tooth comb, even opening phone company standard bleugh messages because I hadn't bothered opening them and he just saw them as new messages.

He told me he had no problems whatsoever with his exes socialising separately, but then let it slip several times that he most definitely had. For example, while carried away recounting the end of a previous relationship, he said "and I told her "I don't go out with women who hang out at pick up joints like (bar in our town)".
He was intensely uncomfortable with any sexual contact I'd had outside marriage or an LTR leading to marriage.... In spite of the fact he'd had that himself. I felt like I was continually being asked to explain and justify why I'd had it. Something he didn't feel the need to do about his own experiences.

This is all off the top of my head, there's plenty more;

My point is that he sat with a straight face and earnest, convinced manner claiming "I'm not controlling!".

The closest he came to admitting it was - when I said the relationship would end if he didn't stop the behaviour - and he said it was "hard" (to stop thinking and acting like that).

Apparently too hard, because he was still doing it when I ended the relationship.

The day an abuser says "I'm abusive"; I'll presume they're being given a million quid for doing it.

You can't change values.

You can't change someone being dumb either.

Please password protect your phone

I also think that when someone - especially someone you're close to, have feelings for, believed was a good person, appears reasonable (appears being the pertinent word) asserts something so convincingly (probably because they believe it themselves), it can be hard to think "no, you're totally wrong, that's unreasonable" etc.

I think.you can't believe they would either lie or be so unreasonable.

People, women, are also too empathetic and try to see the other person's point of view and give it weight.

This is op's husband and life partner, she's used to seeing what he says as valid & supposedly reasonable.
She's not used to dismissing what he says as totally invalid.

Sometimes when people are so convinced themselves, you think they must have a point
But it's a fallacy

OP's husband, just in case you're reading this, you're an immature, insecure, controlling wanker.

How are you even comfortable letting him touch you when he thinks that stuff?
I'd feel disgusted by him and that he was touching me even though he was thinking that stuff about me 🤮

I know and I understand.
So when he says things like that, I immediately feel I hate him, I want to leave,i know I dont deserve it ect.

Then after a few days he'll act lovely and be so sweet with me ect and because I love him I just want it all to be okay and think he'll not say things like that again ect

I don't know if there's something wrong with me. Maybe I should be stronger and the first time he said it I should have been gone.

I'm scared to be honest.
I love him still but he's been so nasty to me. I'm scared to leave the person I loved and thought he was. Scared of the unknown.

But I don't want to carry on this way

Only you can decide the way forward OP. The day a man tries to assert his authority over me (and I've had 3 exes whom have all exhibited this behaviour) is the day I lose my absolute shit having had more than enough of it to last a lifetime. Don't think the next guy who tries it on with me would know what hit him.

Ask yourself this op, would you want to live like this forever? This feeling I mean.

Because even if he had a full personality transplant and became a thoroughly decent man, you'd still remember the things he said and did. And worry every day that he might revert to it.

Cycle of abuse.

Also they know when they've gone "too far" ; and try to be nice and rug sweep because they know they're getting into the danger zone (of you considering leaving).

They'll still get back to the abusive behaviour though, when they feel safe again.

They import them from developing or poor, unstable countries. (And extremely patriarchal societies, where double standards are still fully accepted). These obviously overlap a lot.

These not "ruined" by western liberal culture, you see.

(Strangely these men are perfectly happy to cherry pick the parts of western liberal culture that suit them though; like sex outside marriage, contraception, women contributing financially, access to porn etc. etc.).

If I ever hear of these mail order brides divorcing them or cheating on them, I pmsl.

Anyway, op's h is clearly not at that point though. Which is why he keeps abusing her but still does the nice cycle when he thinks she might be becoming despairing or near the end of her tether.

Funny how you'd work so hard to hang on to a "slut" who loved an ex bf more than you ..... Given men leave women every day of the week.

It must be for the love of his kids eh, the ones in front of whom he's left their mother crying, due to his ongoing abuse about her sexual history.

Sexual history he knew about when he married her, knew about when he had kids with ..and he has equivalent history himself.

(And sexual history that is on the low side of ordinary for that matter).

@BouquetGarni224 I agree with you completely!

Exactly this.

He knows how to get round you.

Yet another way he is abusive to you.

My oh was like this…he sounds narcissistic, very. He will never be at fault. You will always be in the wrong. These guys mirror you at first, like what you like etc to draw you in then when they feel you’re hooked and stuck, the love bombing stops, the devalue stage starts…that’s criticising, dragging up the past etc. They will be nice occasionally, throw a few breadcrumbs so you stay , thinking it’s going to be ok, then devalue again. A peaks and troughs of it’s ok then despair till you’re exhausted walking on eggshells. Meanwhile they are feeding off your pain…emotional vampires. After devalue comes discard. Then they come back and hoover, They’ve changed, can’t live without you…except it’s a ploy to abuse again.

only thing you can do is leave.

Name changed for this, I have one of these. It's been 5 years. 3 kids and 20+ years together. I have no answers OP.

I feel for you. I divorced mine last year and he’s still sticking like treacle, trying hoovering, being abusive alternating. Fortunately it’s only email now. I’m going to move house then hopefully can lose him. If I ignore the emails completely, he’ll be banging on my door.

Having said that, the only thing to do is get out when you can. They smash your self esteem but when you start to see through them, it can lead to a plan…save up an escape fund, he had my money but one day he felt secure enough to pay it back and I had my chance…my sons were adult and helped me flit while he was out one evening. They arrived with a hire van , watched him leave from down the street and we were packed up my furniture and everything and out in an hour. I’d bought a house online. First time I saw it was the day I moved in.

You don’t love him.
You love the person he is pretending to be to keep you hooked.
That person does not exist. It’s a mask.
The real him is the nasty one.

Please please please Google narcissism. You seem to have a classic example. It’s a disorder, like psychopath, sociopath. Can’t be helped or cured, largely because they don’t think they can be in the wrong.

The only way is out. He will never change. It gets worse as they get older.

Think of your children. See a lawyer.