Propose myself or wait?

[HannahLouD]

Hello! :)

I'm (F 30) and I've been with my partner (M 35) for 4 years. It's our "anniversary" on 26th July and I'm seriously contemplating proposing to him (is that mad!?)

We have been living together, in a house that we bought together, for 2 years and we have an 8mo son together, as well as a 6yo daughter from a previous relationship of mine.

My partner was married before (separated when we met, and divorced for 3 years now). I've never been married. We spoke about marriage when we first started dating and we both said it was something we would like in the future, despite his past.
I have bought it up a couple of times since, but it's never got much further than him saying "maybe one day". I know obviously he has been through divorce and hurt before, and that he took 6/7 years to propose to his ex, but, I would really like to be engaged and eventually married to him.
I've always seen myself as being married and having a family and I know I am extremely lucky to have a family and to be living with my partner, but I would love the "whole package". Me and my daughter have one surname, and my partner and my son have a different surname - I'd love us to all have the same surname! (My daughter would like to take his if/when we did ever get married).

I know it probably sounds ridiculous, because we are in a stable, committed relationship, and perhaps I shouldn't want/need more, but, it's just something I have always wanted and I just don't think it's going to happen anytime soon if I don't propose myself. I am and have always been, the romantic/thoughtful one in the relationship and I genuinely wouldn't have a problem being the one to ask him. But, I know that's probably quite controversial! I also don't really know what he would say - I know he obviously wants to be with me, but I'm not sure if he would want to be the one to eventually ask... but when?!
I also understand 4 years isn't that long to be with someone, but literally everyone around me is engaged/married, including people who have been in relationships for much shorter amounts of time. Again, I know I shouldn't compare, but here we are, I am doing just that! haha.

Would you, as a woman, ever propose to your male partner? Or wait an indefinite amount of time for it to maybe one day happen? I don't want to keep on hinting to him that it's something I would like him to do, as I know if he wanted to do it, he would. But, is there really any harm in me being the one to ask him?

Thanks everyone! Honest (but not too cruel) opinions very much welcome :)

beneficiaries on each others life insurance and pension -just be aware that they can be changed unilaterally.

Yep.

Someone else listing you as a beneficiary in their will, life insurance or pension isn't the same security as marriage/CP, because those things can be changed without you knowing.

Some people see that as a positive, of course. You might view protection as being more about your right to do what you want with your assets. But marriage absolutely offers more than being a beneficiary of a will, pension and life insurance if you want security in relation to your partner's assets.

Wow, tell me you have trust issues without telling me you have trust issues.

Errr, what? This is simply practical advice.

You stated that marriage offered very little additional security. But the life insurance and the pension benefits only kick in for the beneficiary if the “holder” dies. In the event of a break up, only marriage (or CP) gives lovers a claim over each other’s assets - such as a larger pension built up by the guy whilst the woman was working part time or SAHM.

I am simply stating the fact.

There's nothing stopping the person you 'trust' from moving on from you and demand the house to be sold if you cannot afford to buy him out(thereby leaving you homeless), remove your name from his pension and will without a second thought.

As I mentioned in the other thread, without being legally married/civil partnership, you are at best housemate in the eye of the law.

It has happened more than zero times, however much some people like to put their fingers in their ears.

Just have a chat like grown ups about getting married, book a date at registry office and get it done.

There's no way I would be waiting all that time! I was married after two and a half years of meeting DH. Don't see the point of hanging about.

I haven’t read everyone’s replies but have followed all of yours OP. Some of the others were getting under my skin.

I’m sorry that your OH has upset you. I was once in your position, my now husband was dead set against marriage, which I always knew, not exactly what I had hoped for but so loved him.

i decided my desire to be a mum outweighed my desire to be his wife, I asked myself, would I rather have him in my life as we are now or push for a marriage and then we end up separating, we had our first son 2 and a bit years after buying our first house together, my answer to my question was Id rather have him in my life like it is than not at all.

it took my husband almost 8 years to propose, it wasn’t romantic at all but was very fitting for us. We’ve now been married 9 years and have 2 kids together.

There is nothing wrong with having children out of wedlock, please don’t allow people to make you feel bad for this decision, your children are a blessing.

I told my husband that I was going to change my name by deed poll as wanted the same name as our son especially since he was at school, after he proposed and he said yeah that’s something you’d do 😂.

i suppose what I’m saying is you need to ask yourself if it’s worth pushing the marriage thing and potentially losing him or live life as you are but make sure he has a will etc and that you’re protected should anything happen to him.

be kind to yourself xx

Also an “I don’t know” isn’t an outright no, so you still have some hope he’ll change his mind.

I can’t see him coming round to the idea of marriage if he knows how much you want to do it and still won’t agree to it.

Who has more assets? I know you bought the house together but does one of you have a lot more savings / pension etc than the other?

My now husband didn’t propose to me until we’d been together 8 years, we’ve now been together over a decade. We’d talked about it, I wanted it, but it wasn’t forthcoming. It caused me a lot of tears and angst after a while. The worst was about 4 years in until about 6 years in.

we went on a beautiful holiday 6 years in and I honestly thought he’d propose. To the degree he shunned going out with others one day to go just us two alone. I was so upset he didn’t I cried the whole last night on holiday. I came home and went out with a really good friend, who spelt it out to me - I either had to give up on the marriage idea and be happy or I had to end the relationship as a proposal wasn’t going to happen.

I decided to stick. We had a house and a family and I loved him. A lot happened between years 6 and 8, but ultimately he decided then he did want marraige and proposed. We married 3 years later.

I very nearly walked away over it though. I think back to things “ruined” where I thought he’d propose or friends would put the idea in my head. I didn’t want to propose because I knew it was about him being ready (like your situation he’d been pressured into marraige before)

he knows how upset I was at the end of that holiday, he also knows I distanced myself for a while. He only found out a year or so ago how close I was to walking away. Stupid really when it’s “just a bit of paper” but for me it was really important.

ultimately you can’t marry unless you both say yes. So you need to decide if what you want outweighs what you have.

I think (general, not specifically you, ChocolateTea) we do language a disservice when we say it is “ just a piece of paper”. It is not. It is a set of rights and responsibilities.

I was on a thread recently (possibly a troll) where a guy who started his own business aged 18, married, had two kids and was with his wife for 11 years - to whom he paid a salary when she lost her other job - was incensed she had a claim over “his” assets. His arse was roundly handed to him as a “business man” for signing a contract (marriage certificate) without understanding the implications (or, more likely, pretending now that he didn’t).

I'm so sorry op that he has disappointed you so much, I think it's easy to assume that in a couple we are on the same page.

You have to decide how you feel about him, a lot of your energy has gone into what he feels and desires. Try to concentrate on your own happiness, maybe explain to him about your daughter's desire for a family mirrors your own. It's not just a piece of paper marriage, it's a commitment to each other.

Aww OP. I know I’m late to the party and I hope you’re feeling better now. I know it sucks.
he definitely knows he doesn’t want to get married. He was making it sound like it could be an option to keep you hanging around.
im sure other posters have said it all. Chin up 😘

And I think it’s a good thing you didn’t propose in the end cos if you did he would have said no and where would that leave your confidence etc? 🤗

Oh dear. Is she supposed to live her life with this man hoping he might change his mind about something he knows means a lot to her? How passive; how 19th century; how demeaning.
Better to either come to terms with his stance and live that life as a positive choice, or make the break. Living dangling in a string is not they way forward.
I am sorry you are in this situation OP and hope you can find the right decision for you. It is not easy I know.

Why doesn't he want to do something that would make you so happy. That would hurt if it were me.

All you can do now though is try to start coming to terms with it, making your peace with who he is in real terms in your relationship - is he a good partner, does he support you, does he do 50% of the relationship work/childcare, is he a great dad etc. A lot of women marry absolute arseholes.

So if someone doesn’t want to get married they should, just to make their partner happy?

That’s a fair point. If it was a woman who didn’t want to marry her partner, there would be a different attitude.

Only because men still hold the economic power in the main. If everything was equal the attitude wouldn’t be so different.

No, that's why I gave ways to feel better about the situation, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt.

OP has described a man who just doesn't really care about marriage, rather than someone who has a really good reason not to, so I would feel hurt. Feelings don't have to be rational!

If he isn’t proposing it means he doesn’t want to marry you. Stay a girlfriend or leave and possibly meet ur future husband. Prayers x

Sorry you have had that response op. You obviously have some decisions to make. His reasons are not great. It's not just a piece of paper. If he's uncomfortable with the idea of marriage will he go down to the solicitors and get something drawn up to protect you and the kids in the event the relationship won't work so you have the protections of marriage without the wedding bit? Obviously you may not want that but his reaction will be very telling. If he refuses then he knows damn well it's not just a piece of paper as he said and in fact he doesn't want to give you any protection and the reason for that is he doesn't see himself with you long term/ as committed. Actions speak louder than words.