Propose myself or wait?

[HannahLouD]

Hello! :)

I'm (F 30) and I've been with my partner (M 35) for 4 years. It's our "anniversary" on 26th July and I'm seriously contemplating proposing to him (is that mad!?)

We have been living together, in a house that we bought together, for 2 years and we have an 8mo son together, as well as a 6yo daughter from a previous relationship of mine.

My partner was married before (separated when we met, and divorced for 3 years now). I've never been married. We spoke about marriage when we first started dating and we both said it was something we would like in the future, despite his past.
I have bought it up a couple of times since, but it's never got much further than him saying "maybe one day". I know obviously he has been through divorce and hurt before, and that he took 6/7 years to propose to his ex, but, I would really like to be engaged and eventually married to him.
I've always seen myself as being married and having a family and I know I am extremely lucky to have a family and to be living with my partner, but I would love the "whole package". Me and my daughter have one surname, and my partner and my son have a different surname - I'd love us to all have the same surname! (My daughter would like to take his if/when we did ever get married).

I know it probably sounds ridiculous, because we are in a stable, committed relationship, and perhaps I shouldn't want/need more, but, it's just something I have always wanted and I just don't think it's going to happen anytime soon if I don't propose myself. I am and have always been, the romantic/thoughtful one in the relationship and I genuinely wouldn't have a problem being the one to ask him. But, I know that's probably quite controversial! I also don't really know what he would say - I know he obviously wants to be with me, but I'm not sure if he would want to be the one to eventually ask... but when?!
I also understand 4 years isn't that long to be with someone, but literally everyone around me is engaged/married, including people who have been in relationships for much shorter amounts of time. Again, I know I shouldn't compare, but here we are, I am doing just that! haha.

Would you, as a woman, ever propose to your male partner? Or wait an indefinite amount of time for it to maybe one day happen? I don't want to keep on hinting to him that it's something I would like him to do, as I know if he wanted to do it, he would. But, is there really any harm in me being the one to ask him?

Thanks everyone! Honest (but not too cruel) opinions very much welcome :)

I would start the process to change your baby’s name to your own.
He shouldn’t mind
“It’s just a bit of paper”.

She can't change baby's name without his agreement.

Yes I know. That’s why I said he shouldn’t mind if it’s all just a bit of paper.

Because of the incredible amounts of risk and personal sacrifice involved in being the female in a heterosexual relationship where you want children, I think the man needs to put in the romantic effort for the proposal.

That being said I think suggesting or telling him it's what you want and in what timeframe is logical and reasonable otherwise he probably thinks you're ok with waiting 7 years like his ex.

Tell him you're not.

Then let him propose.

But he needs to be given a timeframe (such as this needs to happen in next six months) as clearly his does not match yours at the moment.

If he wanted to, he would.

@itsmabeline @YouZirName thank you, I have actually since provided an update

Oh, OP, I’m really sorry.

We were a bit like (younger though - 30's)
Both been through 'crap' divorces after short marriages.
He'd have married straight away but I wanted - well 'calmness' is as good a word as any.
Been together 4 years when we married- right decision - right time frame - still going strong many years later.

Ah, OP, that's so tough.

I'm sorry. I imagine now you've had this conversation it will take time to sink in for both of you. He may well start to consider it too.

It feels sad. I wonder if he is picturing a big white wedding?

It's very hard when both partners want different things 😔😔😔

His reasons for not marrying you are pathetic.

Marriage is not just a piece of paper even though so many people try and pretend it is. Also I don't think a house and a baby are a bigger commitment than marriage.

A warning to other women who want the protection of marriage to not have a child beforehand.

He knows what it means to you and for the 2 of you to just go to a register office would be quick, simple and pretty cheap.

Just seen your update.
So sorry op.
But you did the right thing having the conversation.
Like pp have said if it's just a bit of paper- and he loves you then what's the problem?
I think a bit of space may help him think a bit more clearly.
If you're good enough to live with you're good enough to marry.
And my close friend went off one weekend- told no one and married her partner of 10 years (their parents and kids only)
So you can have a low key / invisible wedding.
So I'd definitely be withdrawing a bit....

Really sorry op. That sucks. Take time to think through what you want and be kind to yourself.

I’m sorry Op. I know the pain.

At least you only wasted four years. I wasted 20, but I did go and sleep with a bloke for revenge. I know that’s shallow of me, but to put your heart, soul and time into a relationship to be lied to was too much for me to bare. Don’t stay longer in the hope that he will change his mind, or you run the risk of becoming like me. Doing something out of character like me, I don’t recognise myself, I don’t even know who I am, and the worst part, I don’t even regret sleeping with that guy, I hope it hurt, I hope he feels disgusted and betrayed, just like how he made me feel. I’m bitter and can’t get away from it. Stay knowing he won’t marry you if you want, but don’t stay in hope he changes his mind.

Very well said. Marriages, like any other relationship break down, yes but id always put marriage before babies.
And, no I’d never propose to a man as a woman. Was never meant to be that way.

That sounds rubbish op.

i know that i would get married no question with the right person, as I am 51 no new kids would be involved, but equally there are many women who do not want to get married either.

if i didn’t want to marry but knew my partner did, it would be a no brainer, i would do it if i loved them as it would not really change my life but make theirs better.

Hi OP. Sorry to hear the conversation didn’t go well. It would have been nice of him to tell you all this earlier. I don’t think you’re alone in this type of scenario, I hear it time and again. I’ve also seen it bite a lot of women on the arse. Particularly if he decides to go off with someone else or heaven forbid, dies. I really think you need to make a more detailed list of reasons to get married. It protects him as well as you, but obviously by not being married he is hoarding all his assets in the event of a break up and that’s just not being in a 50:50 partnership is it? It screams of him keeping the upper hand and his options open. Are you doing all the ‘wife work’? Compromising your career/ pension/ earning potential? Taking on more household and childcare responsibilities? If so, then stop. And absolutely change your son’s surname to yours. As previous posters said, if he thinks marriage is just a piece of paper, then so is a birth certificate. He can change his surname to yours in the future if he decides to commit to your family and you get married. Plus that marriage ship already sailed. Once you’ve done it with someone else, you’ve proved you believe in it as a concept. It’s difficult not to feel short changed in your position.

but I do also hate this waiting for men to propose bs. Have a conversation about it and make sure you’re on the same page, not waiting for hearts and flowers and ‘being chosen’.

Don't think of it as proposing. Just sit down with him and discuss it like 2 reasonable adults with responsibilities. Look at the pros and cons together, talk about the feelings you each have about the idea.

I am guessing the only reason you have not done this already is because you fear the outcome might not be what you want and this might sour your relationship in the future.

Only you can decide what is worth that risk.

It does not need to as dramatic as a full proposal.

You have kids and a house together so I would simply have a conversation with him to make it clear that you would now like the next step to be marriage and that you want to start making plans for it to happen.

Basically don't let him just evade the topic any longer and fob you off.

I am not fussed about marriage but I do think that when people have kids and property together it gives you more legal protection.

There are too many stories of women on this forum being left with nothing financially and to care for the children on their own and having little legal rights because they were not married to their partner.

Who exactly decided it "was never meant to be that way"?

I don't see anything wrong in a woman proposing (it's 2024 not 1924). Doesn't have to be a full on down on one knee proposal. I would assume if I had been with someone for 4 years and we had a house and a child that marriage would definitely be happening and sooner rather than later. I would not be sitting around waiting for him to propose

Sorry OP, what do you think you’ll do now?

I'm so sorry OP 😞 I was thinking about you all night! You must be gutted and rightly so.

Marriage is definitely not just a piece of paper! I have personal experience of what can happen when an unmarried long term partner dies. My mum was in that position and my step dad's family turned nasty out of the blue when they realised that they could profit from his death. They had been together for 30 years. It was horrendous and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

I know your dp has had his fingers burned by his ex wife, but you should not have to pay for her mistakes.

You must feel betrayed by his broken promises. Ask yourself, would you have had a baby with him if you had known then that he had no intentions of marrying you? That's on him!

Breathe, and take some time to think. He will probably be looking for some indication from you that everything is still rosey in the garden. Don't be surprised if he ups the charm over the weekend. Take care hun x

((Hugs)) OP

Give youself some time here. I get the sense some of the legal and financial aspects are hitting home alongside the disappointment.

His arguments are pretty weak but thats not really the problem. He's willing to do it for you but you want him to want to (understandably). Maybe you both need to take a little time to digest each others perspectives.

I'm sorry, OP. I thought that would be the answer he would give - it's sort of the 'if he wanted to, he would' line of reasoning.

It's not fair of people to beat you up for buying a house and having a child with him without being married. This is not an uncommon decision to make these days and I think a lot of people don't focus as much as they should on the legal and financial protections marriage provides.

Well done you for pushing the conversation so you could gain some clarity. It's hard but at least you know where you stand and you can decide where to take it from here.

Wishing you the best!

he wouldn't want to do it if his heart wasn't in it

This stood out to me. Why is his heart not in it? But he is willing to commit to a child and a house - just not YOU?

This was exactly the reason I wouldn’t have had children without being married (as well as the legal stuff) but I wanted to know my DH was committed to ME before the rest came, it would have felt a very shaky foundation otherwise.

The upshot is he doesn’t want to commit to you. Not a good place to be.

It may not be uncommon to buy a house and/or have a baby with someone without being married but, sadly far too often, it is not a very sensible choice to make.