Propose myself or wait?

[HannahLouD]

Hello! :)

I'm (F 30) and I've been with my partner (M 35) for 4 years. It's our "anniversary" on 26th July and I'm seriously contemplating proposing to him (is that mad!?)

We have been living together, in a house that we bought together, for 2 years and we have an 8mo son together, as well as a 6yo daughter from a previous relationship of mine.

My partner was married before (separated when we met, and divorced for 3 years now). I've never been married. We spoke about marriage when we first started dating and we both said it was something we would like in the future, despite his past.
I have bought it up a couple of times since, but it's never got much further than him saying "maybe one day". I know obviously he has been through divorce and hurt before, and that he took 6/7 years to propose to his ex, but, I would really like to be engaged and eventually married to him.
I've always seen myself as being married and having a family and I know I am extremely lucky to have a family and to be living with my partner, but I would love the "whole package". Me and my daughter have one surname, and my partner and my son have a different surname - I'd love us to all have the same surname! (My daughter would like to take his if/when we did ever get married).

I know it probably sounds ridiculous, because we are in a stable, committed relationship, and perhaps I shouldn't want/need more, but, it's just something I have always wanted and I just don't think it's going to happen anytime soon if I don't propose myself. I am and have always been, the romantic/thoughtful one in the relationship and I genuinely wouldn't have a problem being the one to ask him. But, I know that's probably quite controversial! I also don't really know what he would say - I know he obviously wants to be with me, but I'm not sure if he would want to be the one to eventually ask... but when?!
I also understand 4 years isn't that long to be with someone, but literally everyone around me is engaged/married, including people who have been in relationships for much shorter amounts of time. Again, I know I shouldn't compare, but here we are, I am doing just that! haha.

Would you, as a woman, ever propose to your male partner? Or wait an indefinite amount of time for it to maybe one day happen? I don't want to keep on hinting to him that it's something I would like him to do, as I know if he wanted to do it, he would. But, is there really any harm in me being the one to ask him?

Thanks everyone! Honest (but not too cruel) opinions very much welcome :)

Maybe not, but OP is where she is now. It's unhelpful to criticise her for past decisions. She is feeling badly enough and now has to focus on what she can do in the future.

OP that was brave of you to push this conversation with him, instead of trundle on for another 10 years, not knowing where you stand.

Start making plans that will protect your financial position, in the event of break up.

Also your actions have to match your intentions. Stop doing couple-y stuff with your soon to be ex - show him that you mean business and he doesn't get to decide your life. If he doesn't want to get marry he doesn't deserve to be part of your life, starting from now.

show him that you mean business and he doesn't get to decide your life. If he doesn't want to get marry he doesn't deserve to be part of your life, starting from now.

OP has absolutely not said she wants this. She may end up there, but I suspect there is a lot more talking and thinking to do first.

I'm sorry OP, it does sound like you are being sort of held hostage to his past bad marriage experience. The thing is, he did say at the start of your relationship that he would be open to marrying again - which means he misled you. If he had been upfront about it, you probably wouldn't have moved in or had a baby with him, knowing it would never lead to marriage.

He is basically telling you that he doesn't want the same future that you want. And if he does relent, it will be under duress, not exactly what you want for your future is it?
He just wants things to stay the same because it's comfortable for him - he has all the trappings and benefits of marriage without having to actually commit. Whereas you are more at risk of losing out financially etc. if the relationship breaks down (not to mention you will likely be the one left holding the baby). Plus it is nice to have someone commit to you as a person rather than just the things you do together (house, baby). Obviously for some people marriage isn't important, but it's ok to admit that you want that.

Maybe take some time and think about where you want to go from here. You said a few times marriage doesn't really matter to you...but I think you starting this thread means on some level it does matter, and the fact that he doesn't want it hurts somewhat.

It is clearly important to you to be with him, or you would not be wanting marriage.
For various reasons his vision of the future is not the same as yours, but you do share the common aims of sharing your lives and bringing up your chidlren together. And, by all accounts, you do both love each other - he says he does and I am assuming it is the same for you.

Can that be enough for you? Might you be able to discuss some legal safeguards and signed agreements that could be put in place that you would feel were sufficient to secure your future?
It is all distinctly unromantic I know - but all avenues need to be explored before you part company - you have a child to consider.
I am sorry that you find yourself at odds over this and hope very much that you can find a way forward.

Lol, we want equality except [list]...

I don't see why not.

He doesn't want to get married. I would therefore assume it's not going to happen, and proceed accordingly.

Start with double barreling your child's name. Him permitting that would, for me, be a condition of remaining in the relationship. If he doesn't, you can apply for a court order anyway. Men often to attach a lot of importance to children's surnames, so it's a good way to signify to him that some things are spouse privileges and there are consequences to choices.

You mentioned full time work, and said you're protected in some ways but not others. What are the others, and is there anything you can do to mitigate that? What's the situation with wills, beneficiaries on pensions? These things aren't the same as being married, because they can be unilaterally changed, but they need to be considered.

I would also not have any more DC with him.

I wouldn’t propose in the sense of getting down on one knee. As pps have pointed out, despite this being 2024, I think men feel emasculated by this and women feel resentful. ( it’s insane and I don’t agree but that’s the reality!

however, I’d be having a discussion that makes it very clear that you expect a proposal very soon. See what he says.

OP has had the discussion with her partner and he has clearly indicated that he has no intention of getting married in the near future.

This is completely at odds with the impression he gave OP at the beginning of the relationship. Or I suspect he might be too comfortable with the status quo now, why change if is not to his benefits?

To me he has either lied (less likely) or change his mind. However, at this stage there's no point trying to ascertain why. He is a grown man - he will do what he wants to. There's nothing less attractive than to coerce a man into a marriage.

OP is still young. She has demonstrated that instead of letting this man renege on his promises, she is able to have an adult conversation to ensure both parties are on the same page, albeit the outcome is not what she's hoping for. She need to act on this instead of repeating the same conversation months/years down the line.

Buying a house together is not the same as showing commitment to each other. Marriage is.

I'm sorry to hear that. But at least you know what he thinks.

Your husband told you that after six or seven years he still had to be "pressured" into marrying his first wife. So he had six years years to tell her straight out that he didn't want to get married (or at least not to her) but he never did. Then finally he agreed, she was unfaithful, and the marriage broke down anyway. So what use was him dithering around for so many years? It didn't create a stable first marriage for him.

You are not wrong to want marriage. It's not just about you as a couple, it's also about making a stable family. By the sound of things your DP is the only father that your DD known and wanting the same name sounds as if you want some deeper commitment from him to make a family for DD as well as for you.

Good post @AmaryllisNightAndDay

So sorry to hear the result of your discussions OP @HannahLouD - I did think that was likely to be the outcome. As others have said please look to even up the areas that mean you are less protected than marriage would offer. Things to consider life insurance policies, wills, nominations on pensions, splitting working weeks to cover childcare, splitting bills etc 50:50 or proportional to salaries. If name is important to your daughter could you all double barrel names by deed poll so they are all the same? (apologies as not sure if that is even possible for children) I think most importantly of all if you should die who would you want to be looking after your daughter, would he be willing to keep her with her younger brother?

You have literally said that if he wanted to propose, he would.
You also say he was pushed into his last marriage and it didn’t last long.

I just don’t see how you proposing is going to end well, sorry.

Maybe read OP updates, or a couple of other recent posts, before you give out of date advice?

I was exactly in this situation many decades ago. But we were technically ' Engaged ' ongoing five years. ...with occaisional half hearted discussions about venues etc.etc etc.. his heart did not seem in it and I was wary of persuing' I must have got a bit tired of it and developed outside interests where I started spending evenings without him doing it independent things. All of a sudden he became passionate about officially tying the knot and so we did. It wasnt perfect after that but thats what happened. ( We eventually split and he quickly remarried but he messed up)

Just have a conversation with him! Nobody needs to actually propose these days (unless one of you really wants to!)

Dear god, please read more of the thread than just the OP

Sorry OP. Shit reasons he's got.

Can you change you and Dd surname to his by deed poll, so you all have the same surname? If that is something you still want, that is.
As someone said, have you mentioned a civil partnership to him? Would you be OK with that?

We eloped for ours 21 years ago. Told no one, went to Scotland, just paid for train fare, hotel, rings, registrar fee. Strangers for witnesses. Can be as low fuss and affordable as possible, just going down to your local registry office on a random afternoon.

Sorry op but absolutely not. I think it’s really emasculating when women do it. Also think men mainly say “yes” out of not wanting to hurt the women and I personally wouldn’t want someone to agree to marry me out of pitty. But I also wouldn’t have had a child with someone before I got married if that was what I wanted because they usually don’t have any intention of actually getting married. Sorry maybe best to have a sit down discussion and see if you’re actually on the same page about it.

It cant be emasculating for a woman. A woman isn’t a man.

No. It’s emasculating for the man being proposed to.

I proposed to my now husband when our daughter was 9mo we celebrate our 23rd anniversary in August, We are very happy and have had another 4 kids. He admitted he probably would never have proposed because he wouldn’t know what to say or do haha

Maybe best to read a few posts and find out that she had the discussion a couple of days back?

OP, I am so, so sorry that your discussion turned out this way. Regardless of the children before or after marriage debate, you genuinely believed you would be married one day, and I can’t imagine how hurt you are feeling. Clearly not everyone on the thread prioritises marriage, which is absolutely their prerogative, but I am one of those for who it is the be all and end all, so I really sympathise. If my partner didn’t want to marry me, I wouldn’t be with him, and unfortunately that’s just the way it is. Perhaps you should take some time to think - is this relationship truly fulfilling me? Do I want to be with someone who doesn’t understand how important this is to me? Are there underlying reasons he doesn’t want to get married? To me, a committed partner would have no problem getting married, so I’d have to investigate further. Again, I’m so sorry you’re going through this and I send all of my love. It’ll get better ❤️‍🩹

You don’t need to be married to protect yourself. If you’re on the deeds, have your own income and savings and are beneficiaries on each others life insurance and pension, marriage offers very little additional security.