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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12

1000 replies

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2024 18:05

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 11 | Mumsnet

New thread. This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thr...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5081532-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasd-support-thread-11?page=1

OP posts:
Bunnyhair · 12/08/2024 17:15

I don’t think anyone is saying autistic people are rubbish partners. I think some of us have partners whose cognitive & executive function difficulties are severe, in a way that is very hard for people to understand if this is not an issue for them personally. Plenty of autistic people (such as Busty’’s partner) are fine with executive functioning, and the differences that can complicate relationships are in other areas (rigidity, perspective taking, etc).

There was an autistic poster a few pages back talking eloquently about her difficulty in remembering to get cutlery for her partner as well as herself at mealtimes - and this did not strike me as an example of entitlement or complacency or weaponised incompetence, but a difference in cognitive field of vision somehow, and a difficulty in ‘manually overriding’ an inbuilt system of operating in the world.

It makes sense to me in terms of my own DH, who is time blind and spatially chaotic and can’t adhere to systems or routines or structures or habits that did not originate in his own mind.

No, he really can’t remember to feed our child (particularly if lunchtime falls at a time when he himself is not hungry - because he can’t cognitively accept that anyone could possibly be hungry if he is not). He also genuinely can’t work out how to feed our child if anything has changed, like what our child (who has ARFID) is willing/able to eat, or if we are in a different environment, or the oven is different etc. He cannot operate a microwave he’s not used to without first reading the entire instruction manual and feeling satisfied that the machine has been constructed and laid out in a way that makes sense to him. I have seen him lose his shit to a terrifying extent over a new microwave.

Laundry is just not in his cognitive field of vision, and I don’t think he would notice or care if nobody ever washed his clothes 🤢

I think if you don’t have these sorts of difficulties yourself, or haven’t observed them in a loved one at close hand for a long time, it’s hard to believe the resulting behaviours are not just a massive fuck you in one way or another. And this is the difficulty.

I often feel that the tragedy with my DH is that he intents to be kind, he doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them feel bad, but he is not cognitively able to consider others’ wants / needs / interests, or to think about things that aren’t of direct relevance to his immediate goals, or generally to direct interest and attention towards other people, because his mind is completely taken up by his own interests and preoccupations and routines. And this is not something he can change or is in control of. He always feels misunderstood because in his mind he is a good person with good intentions - but he doesn’t have cognitive or emotional bandwidth to participate in friendships or relationships in a way that makes others feel they matter to him at all.

And, frankly, the way other people ‘matter’ to my DH is very different from the way in which people ‘matter’ to me. My sense is that what he mainly wants from a relationship is someone to be physically around, and never disagree with him, and hear him talk about whatever he wants to talk about. Bonus points if you know lots of facts about whatever project he’s immersed in at the moment. None of this makes him a ‘bad person’, but it does make him not much of a partner in the conventional sense - and quite a difficult colleague.

BustyLaRoux · 12/08/2024 20:37

MetooOP · 12/08/2024 16:40

I'm pissed off with him so have bought a ticket for tonight. I can directly track my daily and weekly distress levels through spend on tickets. 🙄

Me too…. 😕

SpecialMangeTout · 12/08/2024 21:24

I often feel that the tragedy with my DH is that he intents to be kind, he doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them feel bad, but he is not cognitively able to consider others’ wants / needs / interests, or to think about things that aren’t of direct relevance to his immediate goals, or generally to direct interest and attention towards other people

That’s my dh too @Bunnyhair
And I also agree with you that he feels he is a good ierson with good intentions - which is true - but he doesn’t get why people around him then don’t see that.

I think it’s all very sad tbh. For all involved.

LittleSwede · 13/08/2024 06:43

@MetooOP I hear you, that sounds just like my H too. It's so hard to not know if and when you can rely on a DH/DP to be able to take over caring for kids etc when you aren't able too. This is definitely the main reason I've stayed for so long.

As an autistic spouse I think I'm quite good at it, probably a bit too good as put my own needs after my current H's and exH's but in everyday life I'm not too hard to be around. I've had better relationships in the past where I've not been taken advantaged of or where I've not had to practically be a carer for a spouse as well as my child. I'm quite affectionate and love to 'look after' people (until overwhelmed) so struggle when H just seems unable to at times.

Our holiday is going slightly better, H and DD decided we should go away for a night so currently sitting in an old citadel turned B&B in the Stockholm Archipelago! If it weren't for the fact that I developed a temperature in the night (hoping it's DDs cold I've caught and not the another tooth infection!!) it's quite nice to get away and also give DM a break from us!

Georgeismydog · 13/08/2024 09:13

my DH is not diagnosed with ASD or ADHD but our daughter has been diagnosed. The more i learn about ASD, the more i am convinced he is. It feels so good to share it on here and a way forward for me to cope

He doesn't do anything socially, he doesn't like people. He has an obsession (work)

Any friends we had are ones that i have made and he has just tagged along. My couple friends are now dwindling as they all have their own lives with partners that want to do things, go places etc

I am 53 with 3 "children" all adults in their 20s living at home

I am getting round the situation by doing more and more on my own

ANiceLittleHouseByTheSea · 13/08/2024 14:09

Bunnyhair · 12/08/2024 17:15

I don’t think anyone is saying autistic people are rubbish partners. I think some of us have partners whose cognitive & executive function difficulties are severe, in a way that is very hard for people to understand if this is not an issue for them personally. Plenty of autistic people (such as Busty’’s partner) are fine with executive functioning, and the differences that can complicate relationships are in other areas (rigidity, perspective taking, etc).

There was an autistic poster a few pages back talking eloquently about her difficulty in remembering to get cutlery for her partner as well as herself at mealtimes - and this did not strike me as an example of entitlement or complacency or weaponised incompetence, but a difference in cognitive field of vision somehow, and a difficulty in ‘manually overriding’ an inbuilt system of operating in the world.

It makes sense to me in terms of my own DH, who is time blind and spatially chaotic and can’t adhere to systems or routines or structures or habits that did not originate in his own mind.

No, he really can’t remember to feed our child (particularly if lunchtime falls at a time when he himself is not hungry - because he can’t cognitively accept that anyone could possibly be hungry if he is not). He also genuinely can’t work out how to feed our child if anything has changed, like what our child (who has ARFID) is willing/able to eat, or if we are in a different environment, or the oven is different etc. He cannot operate a microwave he’s not used to without first reading the entire instruction manual and feeling satisfied that the machine has been constructed and laid out in a way that makes sense to him. I have seen him lose his shit to a terrifying extent over a new microwave.

Laundry is just not in his cognitive field of vision, and I don’t think he would notice or care if nobody ever washed his clothes 🤢

I think if you don’t have these sorts of difficulties yourself, or haven’t observed them in a loved one at close hand for a long time, it’s hard to believe the resulting behaviours are not just a massive fuck you in one way or another. And this is the difficulty.

I often feel that the tragedy with my DH is that he intents to be kind, he doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them feel bad, but he is not cognitively able to consider others’ wants / needs / interests, or to think about things that aren’t of direct relevance to his immediate goals, or generally to direct interest and attention towards other people, because his mind is completely taken up by his own interests and preoccupations and routines. And this is not something he can change or is in control of. He always feels misunderstood because in his mind he is a good person with good intentions - but he doesn’t have cognitive or emotional bandwidth to participate in friendships or relationships in a way that makes others feel they matter to him at all.

And, frankly, the way other people ‘matter’ to my DH is very different from the way in which people ‘matter’ to me. My sense is that what he mainly wants from a relationship is someone to be physically around, and never disagree with him, and hear him talk about whatever he wants to talk about. Bonus points if you know lots of facts about whatever project he’s immersed in at the moment. None of this makes him a ‘bad person’, but it does make him not much of a partner in the conventional sense - and quite a difficult colleague.

Exactly this @Bunnyhair. No malice or unkindness but so disconnected emotionally.

LoveFoolMe · 13/08/2024 14:34

@LittleSwede I like the sound of that BnB and hope you feel better soon

MetooOP · 13/08/2024 14:40

I often feel that the tragedy with my DH is that he intents to be kind, he doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them feel bad, but he is not cognitively able to consider others’ wants / needs / interests, or to think about things that aren’t of direct relevance to his immediate goals, or generally to direct interest and attention towards other people, because his mind is completely taken up by his own interests and preoccupations and routines. And this is not something he can change or is in control of. He always feels misunderstood because in his mind he is a good person with good intentions

I largely agree with this. I know you hear a lot ' autistic people can be abusive too and you are describing an abusive man not an autistic one'. but I disagree. With my H, and often when this is said of other ND partners, the behaviour described is as a result of autism. With my H, I firmly believe it is the autism that stops him from being a good man and good father and good husband. He wants to be a good H and good father and he believes he is. But he's not. The autism stops him from having the empathy, mindsight and attunement that would make him good at this. It stops him from being able to accept feedback and criticism and growing and learning as a result. It stops him from being able to stay calm and in control. it stops him from being able to prioritise anyone else. It stops him from understanding the impact of his behaviour on others.

H has also accused me of ignoring his intentions. But I no longer care about that. Its the impact he has that I care about.

I understand why he is like this but still can't forgive him for it as the impact on us all is so great. I guess that is contradictory, but there we go. I'm worn down and worn out and Its how I feel.

Rainbow03 · 13/08/2024 15:14

MetooOP · 13/08/2024 14:40

I often feel that the tragedy with my DH is that he intents to be kind, he doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them feel bad, but he is not cognitively able to consider others’ wants / needs / interests, or to think about things that aren’t of direct relevance to his immediate goals, or generally to direct interest and attention towards other people, because his mind is completely taken up by his own interests and preoccupations and routines. And this is not something he can change or is in control of. He always feels misunderstood because in his mind he is a good person with good intentions

I largely agree with this. I know you hear a lot ' autistic people can be abusive too and you are describing an abusive man not an autistic one'. but I disagree. With my H, and often when this is said of other ND partners, the behaviour described is as a result of autism. With my H, I firmly believe it is the autism that stops him from being a good man and good father and good husband. He wants to be a good H and good father and he believes he is. But he's not. The autism stops him from having the empathy, mindsight and attunement that would make him good at this. It stops him from being able to accept feedback and criticism and growing and learning as a result. It stops him from being able to stay calm and in control. it stops him from being able to prioritise anyone else. It stops him from understanding the impact of his behaviour on others.

H has also accused me of ignoring his intentions. But I no longer care about that. Its the impact he has that I care about.

I understand why he is like this but still can't forgive him for it as the impact on us all is so great. I guess that is contradictory, but there we go. I'm worn down and worn out and Its how I feel.

I’m really sorry you feel like this. You don’t have to forgive anybody only accept that they can’t be any different and act accordingly. My first husband (said he thinks he has ADHD and he could well be true) I ended up having to leave because it was un liveable for me. I don’t even look at it through the eyes of forgiveness because he has nothing to forgive. He was acting true to himself, I was not. The person who needed forgiveness was myself and I’m pretty sure you also. I accepted less than I deserved because of my empathy.

Apex3 · 13/08/2024 18:36

Georgeismydog · 13/08/2024 09:13

my DH is not diagnosed with ASD or ADHD but our daughter has been diagnosed. The more i learn about ASD, the more i am convinced he is. It feels so good to share it on here and a way forward for me to cope

He doesn't do anything socially, he doesn't like people. He has an obsession (work)

Any friends we had are ones that i have made and he has just tagged along. My couple friends are now dwindling as they all have their own lives with partners that want to do things, go places etc

I am 53 with 3 "children" all adults in their 20s living at home

I am getting round the situation by doing more and more on my own

Unfortunately doing more and more on your own is not a recipe for happiness, I’ve been doing this for years and it gets you down after a while. You get sick and tired of doing stuff on your own. Luckily my kids are now at an age where I can do stuff with them, which I love, but it’s by no means the same as having an adult female partner to do stuff with 👎

Bunnyhair · 13/08/2024 20:03

@MetooOP I hear you.

Understanding why things are the way they are doesn’t make the lived reality any easier to bear, when it will all always be up to you to accommodate and facilitate and scaffold and support and suck it up and be the bigger person and squelch any needs or desires of your own, for as long as you both shall live (or the duration of the relationship).

Rainbow03 · 13/08/2024 20:28

Bunnyhair · 13/08/2024 20:03

@MetooOP I hear you.

Understanding why things are the way they are doesn’t make the lived reality any easier to bear, when it will all always be up to you to accommodate and facilitate and scaffold and support and suck it up and be the bigger person and squelch any needs or desires of your own, for as long as you both shall live (or the duration of the relationship).

It sounds so bleak but so true. For me it was the inability to empathise that was the end point. If you get to adulthood and it’s just not developed then there’s little hope of anything other than masking which is inauthentic. That and the inability to see beyond self and see people as separate identities with pasts and experiences that set us apart from each other. People are good at masking for a time but it eventually shows. I think some people are only really compatible with others who are similar. For example my in laws. My MIL is clearly ND, my FIL has little empathy and so they get on, although the motives are different and I think he is more “malicious” in his ways and she is isn’t. Neither of them really care about their kids only their own interests. If you share the same interests then you fine, if not they aren’t interested.

SpecialMangeTout · 14/08/2024 18:08

If you share the same interests then you fine, if not they aren’t interested.

Thats dh.
Only, I stopped having similar interests to him due to my health. And now there is nothing to connect about.

Rainbow03 · 14/08/2024 20:06

SpecialMangeTout · 14/08/2024 18:08

If you share the same interests then you fine, if not they aren’t interested.

Thats dh.
Only, I stopped having similar interests to him due to my health. And now there is nothing to connect about.

Its sad. In my in-laws experience one child copies everything the parents do to get attention it feels and the other my DP doesn’t so we get ignored. Not a great way to raise children. They think they parents love is conditional based on if they imitate them, which is odd.

SpecialMangeTout · 15/08/2024 09:48

I engineered the situation where DH and the dcs could discover a hobby together when the dcs were little (I was pretty sure they would all enjoy it).

The only reason why DH and dc1 havé some relationship is because they share that hobby (even though nowadays DH isn’t as keen on it).
Otherwise they’d have nothing to talk about.

Same with dc2 - two hobbies that dh is keen enough on. And dc2 is becoming an engineer like dh so that helps too.

dh never asks questions about anything else. Then grumbles why the dcs never tell him anything. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Rainbow03 · 15/08/2024 10:22

SpecialMangeTout · 15/08/2024 09:48

I engineered the situation where DH and the dcs could discover a hobby together when the dcs were little (I was pretty sure they would all enjoy it).

The only reason why DH and dc1 havé some relationship is because they share that hobby (even though nowadays DH isn’t as keen on it).
Otherwise they’d have nothing to talk about.

Same with dc2 - two hobbies that dh is keen enough on. And dc2 is becoming an engineer like dh so that helps too.

dh never asks questions about anything else. Then grumbles why the dcs never tell him anything. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Edited

Yeah my partners relationship and his brothers is extremely superficial and based solely about the shared interests. Unfortunately they don’t appear to like me as we don’t have things in common (apart from their son and grandchildren but that’s clearly not enough to have a relationship over 🤷‍♀️). They see me as emotional and I shouldn’t be and I need to be more robot like. Unfortunately I can’t be any different.

Ohdostopwafflinggeremy · 15/08/2024 10:34

Sadly our family dynamics is pretty much the same. Dh never asks dc's anything , not interested enough in their lives I presume. Never asks me anything either, not interested enough in my life, I presume. He seems happy as a clam in his 'doomscrolling' existence, only rousing occasionally to show me something terribly exciting about one of his 'doomscrolling' finds. 😔

Ohdostopwafflinggeremy · 15/08/2024 11:12

It took me a really long time to realise how much I 'covered' for dh without even realising it regarding his lack of interest in the dc's.
When they were small and asked why dad didn't do parent/teacher meetings, why he didn't ask them about sports days, swimming lessons, dance class, parkour class, sleepovers, parties......basically anything they did. I would excuse his behaviour by saying "Oh, but he is interested, he just forgot""Oh, he is interested, he's just really busy" or something to convince them he was really interested.
I'd do the same with love. I have always told my kids I love them, daily, I hug, I kiss, they hug and kiss me, they tell me they love me.
I used to say " You've know your dad loves you, right?" He never said it to them.
Last year during a conversation my dc's asked me to stop 'covering' for dad. I didn't even realise I did it until then.
That's when I realised that dh and never really conversed, I just used to tell him things, what the kids were doing, about friends and family, everything from where we go on vacation to what we have for dinner.
Me: I think we should go to Disneyland next year for our vacation/get a new car/redecorate the den.
Him: That sounds good.
Me: I think we'll have chicken/fish/burgers for dinner.
Him: That sounds good.
Pretty much how most of our 'conversations' go.
I mentioned before on here that I just stopped talking to dh, I just stopped telling him stuff, he never asks about stuff, so we just don't talk. Honestly don't think he's noticed 😕 😪

Rainbow03 · 15/08/2024 11:20

Why does this happen? Is it because they can’t see the world outside of their interest so you don’t exist? Do they really love you even if they don’t ask?

Bunnyhair · 15/08/2024 12:36

Rainbow03 · 15/08/2024 11:20

Why does this happen? Is it because they can’t see the world outside of their interest so you don’t exist? Do they really love you even if they don’t ask?

There’s a thread at the moment about why someone feels more comfortable with men than with women, and a lot of autistic women are chiming in that men are easier company because you just do an activity together, and talk about the activity.

I think this is part of what it might be like for some of our partners. If you don’t have the activity together, what is there to talk about? The relationship only exists at the intersection of something you are doing. You are two separate people of no relevance to one another except through a joint activity or interest.

What your kids or partner get up to when you are not doing something together isn’t your concern. What they’re thinking or feeling has no bearing on your activities (unless it puts them in a mood which interferes with your peace - which is what I often think is what passes for ‘hyper empathy’ in ND circles - I.e. ‘you are having feelings and I am really fucking disturbed by it and want it to stop’).

I think love means different things to different people. My DH 100% loves our pets, but can’t remember to feed them or change their water, and can’t cope when they are ill and goes into denial & insists they don’t need veterinary care. It’s not a love that benefits the animals particularly, and it is more about him and his feelings than anything else. But I wouldn’t say he doesn’t love them.

I don’t really think it matters whether our partners love us or not if they make us feel like shit, tbh. Though I can see how it feels marginally better not to believe yourself to be unloved so much as unwittingly neglected.

Bunnyhair · 15/08/2024 12:52

Just to add to this, I think a lot about the advice to parents of ASD kids. That they can’t access our world, so we have to come to them in theirs in order to establish a relationship. I think there is something to this with our partners as well. If we want contact with them we have to immerse ourselves in cycling / video games / their work concerns.

It is very much like this with my PDA child - we get on best when he is telling me and showing me and teaching me things about his interests. If I try to tell / show / teach him anything, or ask him about any aspect of his experience that’s not his special interests, he hits me and tells me to shut up.

Rainbow03 · 15/08/2024 12:59

Bunnyhair · 15/08/2024 12:52

Just to add to this, I think a lot about the advice to parents of ASD kids. That they can’t access our world, so we have to come to them in theirs in order to establish a relationship. I think there is something to this with our partners as well. If we want contact with them we have to immerse ourselves in cycling / video games / their work concerns.

It is very much like this with my PDA child - we get on best when he is telling me and showing me and teaching me things about his interests. If I try to tell / show / teach him anything, or ask him about any aspect of his experience that’s not his special interests, he hits me and tells me to shut up.

Sounds like my MIL (apart from the hitting) but she has basically told me to shut up if she isn’t interested, which is practically everything I talk about. I don’t like crotchet and I don’t like collecting logs so not much else to talk about. I have tried crotchet but I just don’t like it. I really would like a relationship but I’m not sure how to meet her in her world as she thinks everything I do is pointless.

Bunnyhair · 15/08/2024 13:12

Rainbow03 · 15/08/2024 12:59

Sounds like my MIL (apart from the hitting) but she has basically told me to shut up if she isn’t interested, which is practically everything I talk about. I don’t like crotchet and I don’t like collecting logs so not much else to talk about. I have tried crotchet but I just don’t like it. I really would like a relationship but I’m not sure how to meet her in her world as she thinks everything I do is pointless.

Why do you want a relationship with her? Seems this might be hard to achieve if it’s contingent on crochet. 🧶

Rainbow03 · 15/08/2024 13:44

Bunnyhair · 15/08/2024 13:12

Why do you want a relationship with her? Seems this might be hard to achieve if it’s contingent on crochet. 🧶

I just thought it would be nice and she means a lot to my partner and his parents have so little relationship with our kids. They just never visit or show much interest unless you’re are stood directly in front of them .

Ohdostopwafflinggeremy · 15/08/2024 14:10

@Bunnyhair i do agree with a lot of what you say. I believe people do show love differently.
Someone on here, eons ago, said that their dh showed his love by being of service. I totally got that analogy. I know dh loves us because he would do anything for me and the kids, if asked.
The sadness I feel is that he cannot show emotional love.
Him doing stuff is him loving us. I believe 100% that he believes he is a wonderful father and husband because of what he can provide on a practical level.
Emotions make him uncomfortable, if I'm ever overly emotional, he has to suggest a practical solution, whereas all I need is a hug.

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