Husband told me that there's a rumour in work...

[Shkbop91]

Will try to keep as brief as possible.....
Husband and I been together for 11 years, married for 5 two DC, youngest 11 weeks.
He went for coffee today with one of his female work friends (she's on maternity and they meet up every few weeks or so). He told me this:
She asked him what was going on with him and another female co-worker (lets call her Mary). She had heard that they were hooking up from a mutual colleague.
He tells me this in front of the children (in our garden for some reason) about 3 hours after he comes home from meeting his friend.
He says he wanted to tell me because he's angry that the mutual coworker had started rumours that yes having an affair with Mary and he didn't want to seem off and of course I should know about these rumours. He told me that when he went out to walk the dog earlier (a while after he came back) he rang Mary and told her there had been rumours.

I find it all a bit strange. I hold my hands up, I have in the past found issue with his friendships with his female colleagues. My father had an affair behind my mums back when I was a teen and I stumbled on it. That's my issue and insecurity which I have previously visited on my relationship but I've worked hard on the insecurities. The issue is that my husband has lied, has been caught out in his lies before and I'm really muddled up because I find it weird that he's telling me about this "rumour"

He's name dropped Mary quite a few times in the last few months. He's been going on walks with her on their lunch break. We are ironically going to her house tomorrow to go and pick up a secondhand thing. They play chess against each other on an app. They WhatsApp fairly frequently.
The biggest thing I am struggling with though is that a few days ago he kissed me on the cheek and he stunk of cigarettes. I told him that and he was like "wow that's weird" (we are both ex smokers). His work coat stunk of smoke too. I called him on it and asked if he had been smoking (I made it so clear to him that I didn't mind if he was cannot stress that enough) he said not. I saw a message from him to Mary saying thanks for that earlier but I had to blag a lighter as I was leaving work.
So he's lying about smoking. I asked him again today and he says not.
I'm so confused as to wtf is going on. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I do?
He did ask me if I believed him about it being a rumour regarding Mary which I thought was weird but might have been because I was a bit skeptical and had come across as suspicious.....
He's going on a work night out while I will have the youngest visiting family and our eldest will be staying with his grandparents overnight so husband can go out drinking. Mary will be there and now I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable!

This is it, exactly.

He's merely laying the groundwork, so that when you inevitably find out about his lies - which you have in the past - you'll doubt them, and yourself.

He’s quite an accomplished liar. No wonder you don’t know which way is up when you’re around him.

I can relate to the experience of visiting your childhood experiences of your father on your marriage and it really does confuse and muddy the waters. But it’s also hard to heal and build trust when one person cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

I wonder if you should just start with the part you do have proof of. He lied about smoking, you smelt it on him and you saw a message on his open chat. That's enough to start a conversation. That's not you being paranoid or controlling.

Off the back of that I would be asking him how he expects you to trust him over the bigger things, when he is lying to you about things like that. The trust has to work on all levels and he has broken it even with just this initial lie.

So sorry you are going through this.

Where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire.

This is my experience too. Male colleague and I started similar time, similar age so we had lunch together most days as we're in different offices. Got on really well, had a laugh, everyone assumed .... But honestly it couldn't have been further from the truth.

I'd go with him to collect the item, suss out how they are together, keep you're eyes and ears open but it isn't the done deal, ltb situation that some of here want it to be

He's so suss. The most efficient thing to do is check his messages which I'm sure will be revealing. I don't know any trustworthy husband who talks to another woman about his cock.

Some people find checking phones a moral boundary but it's the fastest way for you to get proof. If you want it & you know how you're going to proceed. I'd LTB, with an 11 week baby I wouldn't be delighted about fb going out on the piss often

So he's not allowed to hang out with any men at lunch time, he's not allowed any texting with anybody and he's banned from playing on his phone. Does that apply to op too? Because that's all that's happening. He isn't coming home from work two hours late or booking last minute weekends away to be "alone".

I'm sorry but if there was such a 'remour' it would be laughed off amongst the people it concerned and nipped in the bud. It wouldn't leave the workplace.
There would be no logical reason for someone to ernestly start breaking down the situation to their wife and kids?
So he's obviously up to something. And she's giving him fags and he's smoking them and lying about that too.
I'd be telling him to fuck right off.

I don’t like the way he is saying “ because of your insecurities”
it feels as if he is setting it up so that you feel as if you are in the wrong
he shouldn’t be doing stuff that makes you feel insecure- I think he’s done too much of that stuff in the past which now means that you can’t trust your own judgment on it

Agree - people saying work wife/husband mars me shudder. They think it sound cute but it’s a massive cringe.

Its saying ‘we’re such special friends’ and I agree that it’s about blurring boundaries and usually it’s a borderline EA.

Have you actually read OPs posts about
his behaviour?
Have you not taken on board he has 2 young children including an 11 week old baby?

The smoking - don’t you think it might be someone else smoking around him
Who?
People who occasionally or secretly smoke do it out of doors - coats don’t smell. I’d say he’s been in a car with someone who smokes.

Same here. Mary sounds like a diversion tactic.

That's awful, OP, sorry.

I would sit down with him and say you're not comfortable with the situation with Mary, could you have a look at his phone please to set your mind at rest.

His reaction to that will probably tell you all you need to know. Either he'll hand it over willingly, because he wants you to be reassured. Or he'll get angry, annoyed, accuse you of not trusting him etc etc.

From the sounds of it, he's not remotely trustworthy and he is, in fact, a gaslighting piece of shit. But if I'm right about that, OP, you already know that in your heart and no amount of 'proof' one way or another is going to shift what you know to be true: that you can't trust him; that even if this thing with Mary with innocent, it'll be someone else next time; that he lies to your face so much it makes you feel crazy and like you don't know what's real.

If that's how it is, then I would be ending the relationship, because you'll never be able to trust him and you'll never have peace.

Surely it's obvious. Work night out with his bit on the side. Needs an empty house for shagging in.

Honestly you have no other option here, you need to do some sleuthing e.g. checking his phone and maybe following him to see what he gets up to if you can pull it off discreetly. alternatively you can get a PI to do that if you can afford it.

Sorry for silence. Just to clarify, I am spending a planned week away. Taking the youngest but leaving the eldest here for nursery. The works night out hasn't happened yet.

For anyone invested:

Yesterday was awful. He wanted to talk Saturday night and I said I did want to talk about it yet (I'd had less then 4 hours sleep). I thought about it all overnight and figured that I would try and talk to him about it after we had been to Mary's house - turns out she lives with her parents so confronting the both of them felt completely wrong.
Didn't really sense anything between them but it was super awkward as my children and her parents were there and she was friendly to me.

I decided to ask him questions about it all once we got home. Such as why he decided to speak to Mary before telling me of the rumour (he apparently hadnt decided to tell me yet at that point). I decided I would try again getting him to admit about the smoking. It didn't go well. Things escalated, he continued lying to my face about the smoking and getting annoyed that I wouldn't say I believed him about it being a rumour.
I admit that I lost it. I told him I knew that he was lying about smoking told him I knew he was taking codeine over Christmas. Told him I didn't trust him or believe him about anything he said. He then admitted smoking, with Mary and that he didn't tell me because he knew I would like it. I told him I didn't give a s*t about the smoking and had made it clear to him, yet he kept on lying.

Not really sure where we are at after all of it. I told him I didn't want to be with him anymore. That being in a relationship where i wasn't happy wasn't going to make me a good mum or him a good dad. He got upset, professed his love. Said he didn't want to lose me or the children. Said he was telling the truth about everything else but did lie about the smoking. Said he was sorry and can see why I don't trust him. Said he wasn't going to stop being friends with Mary over nothing but a rumour. Lots more was said but too much to post on here.

I've slept on it and I still don't know where the f**k I am with this so I'm going to do as people have suggested and start getting a plan in place in the background.

Sorry OP that's really horrible. He's shown you multiple times he can lie to your face. He can't be trusted.

I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if someone has said this but a friend of mines husband was having an affair and they used to play "online chess" but actually didn't play much chess but used it as a way of messaging out of sight.

If I were you I'd start getting ducks in a row financially in the background and if you can stomach it pretend you believe him and play happy families for a while. Hopefully he will let his guard down and you can find some actual evidence.

Good luck xxx

Sorry it’s been tough, OP.

He seems intent on lying.

But it’s more striking that he refuses to break off his friendship with ‘Mary’. If he was genuinely trying to save your relationship he wouldn’t be thinking twice about nonsense like this. Yet here he is defending something inconsequential rather than doubling down on his commitment to your marriage and family. Not good. Take your time, do what’s best for you and your children.

So, up until recently, he's been able to control you by lying, then getting angry when you don't believe him. Now he's been confronted and he's turned on the waterworks - and yet he still refuses to do the bare minimum that any decent person would have done straightaway, which is to stop being friends with Mary and quash the rumours.

I agree with pp: take your time. Not because you need more evidence, but so that you can come out of the situation with the best deal possible for you and DC.

The trouble with lying is you never know what is true after that. He's admitting to the smoking because he couldn't feasibly deny it. He can deny Mary as you have no proof.

That said, the fact he's refusing to stop seeing Mary is very telling, in his shoes I'd be bending over backwards to make amends for the lying and would do anything to make you feel more secure. Is he putting his friend with Mary over his relationship with you?

He is prioritising this supposed platonic friendship over you, even though he knows it's causing issues. Says it all.

Said he wasn't going to stop being friends with Mary over nothing but a rumour.

He's prioritising his "friendship" over his marriage, his work (it makes him look unprofessional) and his reputation.

Yep. Agree with PP’s - he’s prioritising her over you. That tells you all you need to know

FWIW, I used to work in a very close-knit team. It was great, we were like best friends and, since our work entailed a lot of socialising, were together most of the time. Things sometimes did get a bit close to the border but never tipped over into sex. I've seen all the men's dicks (literal willy-waving stupidity) but never snogged any of them, although we hugged a lot.

One of the men's fiancées saw a photo of him dancing with me at an awards party. She felt we looked suspiciously close. She asked him to stop staying to the end of our nights out, to block me on social media and to avoid physical contact with me. He did. We could both see why she felt that way and, being friends, agreed that protecting his relationship was more important than enjoying ourselves acting like affectionate toddlers.

This is what your husband is NOT doing, OP. There's a reason ...