Confused- sex when one person doesn’t want to

[noitsachicken]

I’m married with children. Things haven't been great, DH can be up and down with his moods and easily become cross at times. But most of the time things are ok, he does he fair share around the house and lots with the children.
Recently I haven’t always been in the mood for sex, I am perimenopausal and when he has been cross with me or the kids I just don’t want to.
I tend to avoid it by going to bed early, but sometimes I can’t and just say no, but this often leads to sulking, and can affect his mood.
A few times recently he has tried to start something, I’ve sometimes been asleep, sometimes I’ve said no, and not reciprocated but he has carried on. I just kind of froze and let it happen.
I’m not sure if I’ve not been clear enough, I feel like my body language is clear, one time my legs were crossed and he pushed them apart.
But maybe I need to just say No and deal with the moodiness.

The most recent time I was led there and he was touching me, I hadn’t said anything and he was carrying on. He was being a little more rough than usual, eventually I said ‘you’re hurting me’ he stopped and apologised.

I don’t feel like he has forced me into sex, but feel like it’s clear I don’t want to but he has carried on.

I’ve lost sight of what is ok.

You say you don’t want sex but don’t ever articulate the word ‘no’ and you seem confused by this. But it seems to me as an outsider, that there’s a very good reason why you don’t. You’ve said it yourself - you are afraid of the consequences. You’d rather not have him mean or moody or be walking on eggshells, so you grit your teeth and hope it will be over quickly.

No one should be put in a position where they do not allow their voice to be heard for fear of repercussions. I’m pretty damn sure your H knows you don’t want sex but he just doesn’t care. He wants to have the power and be in control.

we can see this in other examples you have given, too. He frightens your DC by throwing a shoe. He doesn’t want you working. You have changed your behaviour and that of your children to try and avoid making him angry. Can you see how wrong this is? Can you see that you are teaching your children that it’s ok for the man to get angry and it’s ok for the women and children to change their behaviour so they avoid dad getting mad?

I know it’s hard for you to hear all this but one of this is good, none of this is how a healthy relationship should be.

@noitsachicken I hope you are ok. I’ve been thinking of your situation a great deal. I know what posters on this thread is alot to take in but you will get there. The truth can sometimes be the most painful to accept but your husband is not your safe person. Please take care and think at least of reaching out to speak to someone in real life. It doesn’t have to be someone you know, women’s aid or the Samaritans will listen x

I have friends who know some of the situation.
But I can’t imagine talking about this with anyone in real life. I try to think how I would react it someone told me this.
I could never give all the details, but the basics of ‘I didn’t want to have sex but still did’ are open to so much interpretation.

You could just say 'all you need to know is he's a very bad man'. It's open to interpretation but bad=bad. No need to elaborate.

Or you could say he's a rapist. Because he is.

Or you could just say the marriage doesn't work anymore so it's over.

You don't need to talk about it woth anyone you don't want to.

@noitsachicken I think the most important thing right now is not what people think or if you feel you can tell them.
You need to stop the abuse that’s happening to yourself. And also your dc.
My ex was abusive to me and pretty hard on our oldest dc. My oldest dc told me she remembered a Sunday morning when I was with both my dc and we were playing and just having fun. They would have been ages 3 and 8 if I am correct. Oldest dc said that when I heard their dads footsteps my mood just changed, I was tense and left them playing to get up and do housework although I worked full time as I knew he would be angry at the sight of me doing “nothing”. I don’t specifically remember that day but my oldest dc does. It stays with them. I really regret staying in that marriage for so long. I feel so free now. I have my own house, new job to pay for it and a really lovely dp who is the kindest and most gentle person.

I deserved better op and so do you. I’ve been where you are where I am just functioning but inside there is so much unbearable turmoil and fear.

I really want you to think about the practical ways we can help you in this thread. We can listen and advise but please tell us what else you need. Keep coming back to the thread as everyone wants to support you at your own pace. Take care x

Empathy and support are not just “word salad”. Sometimes you need to be blunt and sometimes people need a hand hold to come to terms with what is happening and what needs to be done. It doesn’t hurt to have a balance of both types of reply.

This is begging the question, because I was not talking about empathy and support.
I agree that both are needed.

I’m not ignoring what people are saying.
It’s just hard to listen to, and hard to equate to my situation.
When things are settled/ok it’s alright.
The children are happy, deciding to throw a bomb in the family is a big deal.

I know the things I have talked about are wrong, but it’s easy to block it out outside of the moment.

I do appreciate everyone’s comments and I am reading them all.

They're happy - but their normal is having shoes thrown at them?

It is rape @noitsachicken but depending on your ages he may not be aware he is assaulting you. I don’t think consent used to be as clear cut - agreeing reluctantly or ‘going along with it’ to keep the peace was depressingly normal.

Thank God as women that has changed. My most generous interpretation is that the news hasn’t reached him yet.

If there is no other physical, emotional or financial abuse, and you are genuinely happy in all the other areas of your relationship ship, try and talk to him about consent. Agree what needs to happen between the two of you for you to give consent. And tell him want not consenting looks like e.g needing to prise your legs open.

He either listens and learns or he doesn’t. And if he doesn’t you need to strongly consider getting your ducks in a row.

I just wanted to share my story in case it gave you a new perspective. I am married and I haven't had sex since our engagement 2 and a half years ago. I just have zero libido, on antidepressants which suppress the urge, and in the past even gentle sex used to be sometimes painful so it put me off.

Not once has my husband forced me to have sex or got stroppy when I've said no. We still cuddle, spoon, kiss, hold hands, and spend plenty of time together. We've talked about it and he is OK with the no sex because of all my health issues. And even if I didn't have health issues he wouldn't be disregarding my feelings about it!

I used to go along with sex when I was in 20s with ex boyfriends. God knows why, I just felt pressured and men do such a good job of acting as if their dick will fall off if you don't shag them!! One ex used to coerce me even when tears were streaming down my face from the pain. It's not a way to live OP.

What would happen if you said no to your husband for a week or more? His reaction should tell you everything you need to know about the stability of your marriage.

I really do hope you get advice from women's aid / rape crisis. They really will be able to help you in your situation. ♥️

Are you a man? You write like a man.

There is plenty of abuse here. Read all the ops replies. It’s not ok. Ok is peri so her H must be 40’s and knows what consent looks like.

It’s not you throwing the bomb @noitsachicken , it really isn’t. I know what it’s like when things are “great” but also feeling on edge about when the H mood will change.
I think you need time to process this for sure as the responses are overwhelming.
Please feel free to reach out privately if you want to talk x

I guess the thing is, what happens if I want to leave?
Aside from the practicalities, which are huge (he’s a high earner, I’m part-time, low wage). It’s not like I will be ‘protecting’ the children from him, he would still see them and likely without me, so that’s worse surely? I wouldn't be there to mitigate.
Yes I wouldn’t have to put up with his moods etc but they still would.

But you'd give them a safe place and an alternative version of a home-life rather than one that normalises their dad's behaviour.

If they grow up never knowing any different, what sort of relationships will they tolerate in future? Will they blame you as much as him for the dysfunction they're growing up in?

Currently they're in this emotionally unsafe environment 100% of the time, 24/7/365, where dad's mood rules. You might try to run interference, but the shoes are still flying.

Yes it's a common thing people say regarding leaving abuse. That if thry stay they can maybe mitigate. But this ends up doing so much more harm.

1. They may feel that, perhaps, deep down, their mother doesn't love them, because otherwise, why would they stay with a man who hurts them?

1. They may start to feel in turn:

'Am I bad? Do I deserve abuse?'

1. They grow up unable to form healthy relationships because their model for them was their parents. And because they either have no self esteem and gravitate towards abusers or, they become abusers themselves.

1. They have to witness their mother abused, and they can't protect you. Remember, they want to protect you too. But I'm staying you're putting them in an awful position where they can't.

1. They may become abusive to you also because they think being the right hand of the devil will keep them safe from him.

1. They may imitate their abuser in school, causing harm to others because they think its normal.

1. There is no safe place to get away from abuse. And no one telling them 'it's not normal and we don't have to tolerate it'.

1. They constantly therefore are worn down by abuse and internalise messages like 'I'm worthless', 'I can't do anything right', 'I must be bad', 'I deserve to suffer', 'mother chooses a man who hurts me and her, over me', 'this is just what life is like'.

1. The overwhelming guilt of not being able to protect your mum. Or growing up worried that she stayed 'for you'. When in adulthood looking back, you wish to goodnesd she had left.

It fucks children up perminantly.

Alternatively: you leave him and by the time the child is preteen or teen, they've probably realised 'hey, actually, my dad's just a bit of a cunt'. And that's so freeing because you realise the things he says that are mean, it's because of that - not anything wrong with you. And the fact your mum left helps validate you. And the fact you have one safe place to live away from him, means he can't wreck your head 24/7.

Free yourself and free your kids.

Edit: sorry the bullet points won't let me edit without deleting for some reason.

OP, I don't know if this fits with how you feel but I wonder if you don't say no through fear, not fear of him hurting you but fear that he will ignore you and won't stop, and then it all becomes more real to you, 'real' rape? It's a form of protecting yourself.

OP, you don't have to - and shouldn't - have sex when it's not what you want.

He sounds awful.

"when he has been cross with me or the kids I just don’t want to."

Of course you don't. Why would you find that attractive?

Just to be really clear - if you never wanted to have sex with him again, it is your right not to. Then you deal with the fall out of that. Being married or in a relationship does not mean you're obliged to let him inside you as he wishes.

If he doesn't like that, tell him he can:

1. improve his attitude and behaviour to see if that helps how you feel towards him or
2. fuck off and let you live a happier life without him.

@noitsachicken but you would be protecting them by leaving. As others have said they are currently living in an unhappy home with a tense atmosphere, never knowing what action or word is going to set dad off. That leads to internalising emotions, shutting down and possibly replicating his behaviour to protect themselves from it. Taking them away from that gives them a home which is calm and safe, they would still see their father but only some of the time, possibly dictated by his work commitments but as they get older this will also be determined by their own preferences. Having a home in which you feel 100% safe and secure even half the week is better than full time living in a constant state of being on edge, not knowing when things will kick off again.

You might think you are protecting your children currently but ultimately they are still seeing his awful behaviour, are still hearing what he says and no matter how much you try to mitigate or deflect they are witnessing and will be affected by it. If you are free from your husband you will be stronger emotionally for your children and will be better equipped to support them in navigating their contact with him. Staying for the children is never the answer, it usually is more harmful than ending the relationship in the long run.

I’m trying to decide if there is someone in real life I can talk to.
I have a friend who knows some of the things that have been going on. Just in terms of the shouting and things with the kids. Someone I trust and would feel safe talking to, but, I just have no idea how to explain this. I feel like I need to share this in real life, but it’s so personal. And although I know they will believe me, I worry about the ambiguity of consent and needing to explain. I don’t think I would be comfortable giving all the details; but I can’t say ‘I was raped’ as I don’t feel comfortable with that either.

@noitsachicken i think you are taking a positive step considering talking to a friend. You are so lucky there is someone in real life that will give you a handhold,
I think you don’t have to use the word “rape” to explain what is happening to you.
I think you will find a lot of women in one time in their lives wanted to say no but somehow let the sex happen.
So from your update I am guessing he has not relented at all as this has become a “normalised” thing to keep having sex with you when you don’t want it, I would say as I know you doubting whether you are giving consent …sex usually comes with reciprocation verbally or physically. And in terms of that I don’t mean moving yourself into position to get it over with. You H must see the difference with how it was with you like 5 years so when you would likely kiss and touch and do all the other things showing you are willing. His behaviour out of the bedroom is what keeps you frozen. And the repercussions of saying no which is coercion.
I think you will get a lot stronger once you can talk to someone. Take care x

I just thought of this - your friend knows you and she is aware of your H’s behaviour so I really think in a way she won’t be suprised that his behaviour affects all aspects of your marriage. Big hugs x

@noitsachicken i don’t think your friend will see the ambiguity of consent that you do. She will likely take the view we all have that this is against your will and you are being assaulted. As long as you explain clearly and don’t try to excuse what he does she will understand that this is a non/consensual act. From an outside perspective there isn’t ambiguity because you are telling us you are giving no signs of consent. However if you are unclear when speaking about this she may try to minimise because she may not want to outright accuse your husband of rape, not knowing how you would respond to that or she may feel overwhelmed by your disclosure as it’s obviously very shocking.

Be brave, be clear, have faith in your friend, you are stronger than you know.

Could you write it down? Some people find journaling helps them process things.
So long as you can be sure he won't read it.