Anyone else trying not not to contact a guy part 2??

[YouAreAllMySymmetry]

Hey loves @namechangeforthis5 @Frith2013 and whoever else I can think of.

How we all doing?

I'm having a weird night; I've been drinking and guess what skill it reminded me I've developed: crying out of one eye. It means that people generally don't notice, in the car, or lying on the couch or in bed.

That's sad, isn't it.

The peace thing is big.

I just woke up and my first thought was 'fuck sake, another day of having you in my head'.

And yet - it won't stop. It's like my brain is just stuck on an endless loop and I've no idea how to stop it.

@AlwaysKindaKnewYoudBeTheDeathOfMe here’s the thing: you can’t stop the thoughts coming into your head. If I said ‘Don’t think of a pink elephant.” I can guarantee you can see one in your head. You can’t stop thoughts.
You have to learn how to deal with them when they come and the secret is allow the thoughts but DO NOT ENGAGE. Notice them, label them as “thoughts” and turn your focus to something else. It takes a lot of practice and a lot of failures. It’s like a form of OCD, (not saying it is of course) it operates in a similar way. Your brain actually gets physically rewired by repetitive thinking. Part of its day to day job is to protect you and keep you in equilibrium. How does it know what you like and what you need protection from? Adrenaline and dopamine and stuff like that.
Scared of something? Adrenaline triggered, brain gathers information from your 5 senses in that moment and sticks a red flag on that image/sound/ the general circumstances, to remind it to get you ready to run from it or fight it, if it crops up again. It creates a library of things you’re afraid of in order to give you the tools you need to keep you safe from things you’ve reacted negatively to. Similarly with pleasurable experiences, hence we seek those out. It decides that whatever this topic is must be really important because it either triggers dread/ flight or flight feelings or pleasurable feelings or sometimes both, so it adds flags and reinforces the neural pathways to those things.
Why revise for an exam? Because if you keep going over and over the same things in your head, your brain thinks they’re important, so it creates physical pathways to allow better recall and access to that information. Like the grooves on a vinyl record, it prefers to slip into the well-trodden and reinforced path than veer off elsewhere.
So, because you’ve obsessed so long, and you get/ used to get a pleasure signal into the reward centre of your brain from interaction with him, your brain has helpfully given you strong neural pathways to help you seek out the pleasurable event.
Hopeless then? No. Your brain has what they call ‘plasticity’ and you can reverse this and retrain it back to equilibrium, but it takes as much work as the amount of energy that went into the obsession that created the problem.
Don’t try to stop the thoughts, your brain isn’t listening and if the thoughts trigger “Oh no!!! Doom!” Your brain adds another flag.
Notice the thoughts and try not to react, maybe react “Oh. There’s that thought again. Meh. I’m not going to engage with it and go down the spiral again. I’m going to read that book/ think about that tv show/ think about my friend’s problems etc etc. Whilst you divert yourself initially your brain will be confused, and for a while it will jump up and down going “Oy!!! What about this then?” and keep giving you the same pesky thoughts . Let it. Just notice, disengage and divert to something else. The key is to keep doing it and not give up. It’s hard, you’ll fail many times before success takes over, your brain will actively cut pathways to things we don’t think about often, hence we forget stuff we used to know like the back of our hand. I knew the history of the Second World War backwards in 1980 when I did my O levels but can just about tell you the basics now. I did an entire essay question on the Weimar Republic but it could be a tiny island in the pacific for all I can remember about it. My brain gave me string pathways to the facts at the time of repetitive revising, then after the exam I never read anything about it again so my brain cut the pathways and strengthened the ones that resurfaced, like my enormous crush on the head boy at the time probably.
Notice, allow, calmly disengage. Rinse and repeat all day. You can honestly change your brain. Very hard exhausting work but worth it. I know because I did it. I beat fully diagnosed OCD. It saved my life.

Yeah I do get all of that; I have a thing I do where I slightly shake my head when he comes to mind, like to physically say 'hope, not right now'.

One of the biggest problems is just now I have a very long and boring commute; that leaves me a lot of time for my mind to just wander.

I'm looking for another job which should cut that time way down (not because of that but just because the commute sucks).

The less time I have to ruminate over old songs we share a love of, the better.

@Thewookiemustgo a lot of that resonates with me. If I felt stressed about something I would text him to distract myself. I would keep craving the dopamine and the excitement. Then I started seeing this negative pattern and broke out of it.

@AlwaysKindaKnewYoudBeTheDeathOfMe thats a tough one when you’re trapped in a vehicle, songs are a killer too, I love music and one of my kids once said “Mum, how come you know every song on the radio?” I told him not only do I know them, I can tell you when they were in the charts and what I was doing with my life at the time. I used music and the radio to get made up and dressed to, to commute with, do housework with….no idea what I’d do without it, the upside is fun and loads of great memories, but the downside is that some songs remind me of people and situations that hurt me and can be triggers to feel that hurt decades later. Price worth paying though, I know I couldn’t live without music.
Maybe plan for the commute? If you’re driving stick to radio or make mental to do lists or do a more ‘mindful’ drive, where you notice everything you do in the car, every gear change or indicator on/off etc and and internally commentate on it. We drive so automatically that we don’t know how good we are (hopefully 😂) at noticing hazards and don’t have to actively think about it. Pretend you’re taking a learner with you and explain internally what you’re doing and why. It’s a meditation technique which gets infiltrated by pesky thoughts, but you just notice them, let them go and return your brain to concentrating on whatever it is you’ve chosen to concentrate on. That has been proved to work and mindfulness cognitive behaviour therapy is absolutely brilliant for getting to grips with your thinking. Any kind if cognitive behaviour therapy is good, but the mindfulness one was excellent if you really commit to ot and do the work, they teach you a technique, so the session itself isn’t the ‘cure’, applying what you learn and practising it is. I did it on the NHS years ago, hopefully it’s still available, although mental health waiting lists can be huge.
If you commute by train then find some podcasts to listen to (mindfulness ones are available) or audiobooks, so soothing to get a decent novel read to you by a good actor. You could do this in the car also, but I’m hesitant to recommend it as it encourages fiddling with phones which is obviously not allowed while driving.
Plan some enjoyable or educational stuff to listen to, anything about cognitive behavioural therapy will probably resonate with you. Having nothing to do to distract yourself with because if a commute is a danger zone and can be an hour of thinking if nothing else, therefore reinforcing it for the rest of your day.
Have a think about what you’d like to hear in your head instead and plan it out. Good luck, I honestly know it’s very tough but I also know it works. This isn’t hopeless, no matter how long you’ve done it for.

It would clearly help my typing if o and i weren’t next door to each other on my phone, sorry! 🙄

I have got back into podcasts in the last few months; I actually stopped listening to them when this began, it was like he wiped out everything else in my life.

Glimmers of hope...

I keep coming back to this thread and thinking ‘what am I doing?!?’
I’m kind of glad there are other people going through the same thing and it makes me feel better knowing it’s not just me.
I don’t like saying ‘mine’ either, he’s not mine, like someone said upthread ‘friendship gone wrong’ sounds about right.

When I think about it I should probably categorise it as an EA, I don’t know what he thinks though. My issue is we work together, and I really don’t want to loose his friendship. I’ve not seen him for a few weeks (summer hols) but we have been chatting on and off, something happened between us before the holidays and I can’t shake it off. I know I need to distance myself but ugh.
I was convinced men and women could be good friends with no consequences, but that’s clearly not true.

Well done to those of you standing strong, but I do worry how long it will take for me to ‘get over’ him, and I’m honestly not sure I want to.

Hey.... not read all of this thread, just a few random pages.

I've had an online 'thing' for a few years now. And yes, as you can guess, he's married. Yes, I know, it's shitty. It started out as a bit of sexting and gradually it become more about the everyday stuff. It was largely anonymous from my side, he often sent me pics of him/his day. I heard all the usual - sexless marriage, barely speak, trapped by her, leaving when the kids are old enough - and I know it's mostly nonsense. Although when you read some of the threads here, you can see it does happen.

I know that it was only an online thing, I knew it was never anything more (did I even want it to be?) but I became quite emotionally invested it. We would message all day and all evening when he had done all the family stuff. He told me he loved me, that I was the only woman for him etc.

I would react quite badly (emotionally) at things he would tell me at times and I'd go off on one. TBF, he put up with a fair bit from me. Anyway, it was slowly becoming more worse times than good times and after a bad reaction to something I decided I had to end it. Apart from the fact it was wrong to even start it, I was so invested in something that wasn't even real. I suspect I have undiagnosed ADHD - emotional disregulation and RSD feature heavily for me.

I said I needed space and it may be permanent. He hopes I come back but we said goodbye regardless. Its been a few days and the tears have been flowing. I think about him sitting at home wondering if I'm coming back and I think about him missing me. What if he really is lonely in his marriage? And whilst there are a lot of things that drove me crazy, I do miss having that person to talk to everyday. Part of me feels like throwing up when I think of never having contact with him again. I know he is someone's husband, I know it's wrong. I would be beyond devastated if it was my husband.

I just don't know how to navigate it all without crying so much.

My ex situationship got back in touch a couple of weeks ago, (I'm pleased to say I haven't replied although the urge to reply is getting stronger as time goes on) I was doing fine until he texted me, before that it had been literally 4 months since I heard from him.
Now he's taking up all my mental energy, do I text back or not.
This guy was not avoidant, he treated his last girlfriend with so much respect and bent over backwards for her but with me, he just saw me as a back up option and tried to fit me around his work schedule and never made proper plans with me.
My ego and my heart are in battle right now, luckily my ego is winning currently but I don't know how much longer for.
My ego is saying, how can you let this guy come back and use you for sex and disrespect you again for the 3rd time. Come on!
My heart is saying, I'm so glad to hear from you, I just want to see you again.
It's awful, this internal conflict. When he reached out , it was literally just a 4 word text to test the waters, he just asked how I was.

@Thewookiemustgo I'm sorry you've had to deal with infidelity twice, you seem like a really good decent person, you definitely didn't deserve that.
I like those phrases you used, another one that helps me is, we teach people how to treat us.

Right now, I'm trying to teach him a lesson and show that there are consequences to treating me the way he did.

There’s a recent thread written by a poster who is an OW. One of the posters on the thread confessed to an emotional affair and mentioned that her friends said she became a much smaller, duller version of herself whilst in the height of this EA/addiction/limerance. In the same way as if you were an alcoholic/gambling or drug addict etc the addiction takes over and consumes your thoughts.

I’m really pleased that you are finding your sense of self and inner peace again!

One of the recurring themes I’ve seen in this thread is the need to cling onto these men for “friendship” or because of loneliness. Perhaps these situationships started out as friendships but then a line was crossed at some point when it tipped over into EA territory.

Whilst you are pouring energy and attention into these emotionally unavailable men, it is taking time and attention away from your loved ones, and/or developing new friendships. Even if your families don’t know about these “friendships”, the headspace you are giving these guys diverts energy away from them. If you need company, there are ways and means to develop healthy friendships either irl (hobby/community groups etc) or even online- find a game or something you like with an online community, or even post here!

I do sympathise with how hard it is to let go, and putting that distance there will feel horrible at first, but once you’ve broken free from the dopamine addiction caused by these situations you’ll be able to look back in relief.

I would also recommend reading around trauma bonding and intermittent reinforcement to help you understand why you feel so attached when they only contact you sporadically.

@TheMagicDeckchair that was me!

I've name changed.

I remember the thread well. There were some unnecessary cruel posts on there, when you were looking for support. I understand that it’s so hard to get out of these situations, and well done for reaching out and trying to break free from the situation.

BTW I’m not judging anybody on this thread, just trying to offer support because I understand how difficult it can be to break free and how your brain chemistry tricks you into believing you need these people to stay in your lives. I’m glad that there’s a safe space for us all to post, these situations can happen to the best of us and it isn’t something you can really discuss irl.

Yeah I'm the OP of this wee chain of threads, and I've found it useful (and unusual!) to be able to discuss this topic without people piling on.

I do think there's some glitch in the brain chemistry; rationally I know he's just a guy I used to be friends with. We have no reason to be in contact: we have few mutual friends, and live and work in different towns.

I could let him go as easily as clicking my fingers, and in fact we rarely talk now, but my brain - my fucking brain - just can't stop the endless loop. It's so weird, I can't seem to insert a circuit breaker.

@guiltyassin one of the reasons I stopped is because I too would be devastated if someone was doing that with my husband and my husband would be the same

Update from me. My dh looked at my phone when I was asleep (&drunk!) , I have no message chain from OM but I've spoken to my best friend about him a lot. He saw everything I've said, done.
So I've been honest, I've told him about EA 13 years ago, told him about messaging him, everything. He's devastated but he still loves me, I love him deeply and hate that I've broken his heart. He text OM but he's not read/replied (he won't I don't think).
My dh is forgiving me, it will take time for him to forget. I've cried a lot. I've realised I'm stupid, to give up dh for this drop out of a man (om), I'd be crazy, seriously mad.
I'm so thankful my dh thinks we can get past this. I do not want OM anymore. I love my dh. I'm lucky he's a good man.
That was a rough night/morning but we are hopefully going to get past it.

I never had much faith in men, this has just cemented it.

Apologies, I haven't read the entire thread so not aware of your situation. I feel a bit daft, mine was only an online encounter. But it was a number of years and it was constant. I feel a bit lost TBH. It's strange because I always felt that the whole situation was about him, never about me. It was about what I could give him. I told him that on a number of occasions and I'm not sure he ever tried to deny it.

I feel sad though. I feel like I've taken something away from him. I know men handle things differently to us and generally don't care but I did try breaking up before and it was him who got in touch wanting to give it another go. So I do worry about him. And I miss the good times with him.

Also, I get weirdly sentimental about how 2 people can talk for that long and then just go their separate ways, never yo be heard of again. It just makes me sad.

@guiltyassin nit sure what you mean by cemented it. Maybe I didn’t word it properly. I meant my husband would be similarly devastated if he discovered it. I couldn’t do that to him

I started a thread a few days ago with mixed responses, perhaps this group will be a bit more understanding and helpful. For some reason the commenters on the thread thought Id made it up or was an AI robot. I'm not. I'm just hurt and confused and feel used, angry and disappointed in myself, and would love some help to get this monkey off my back.

Someone pursue me for ages and turned out he was in an up and down LT relationship. We were only seeing each other for a little while and after discovering this he admitted he didn't tell me as he knew Id stop seeing him (at this stage as in stop hanging out doing activities rather than anything romantic), even though there was chemistry and tension. He kept in touch and occasionally me met up to play a game pf tennis or something. I thought to myself no harm but after a while realised how compromised I felt (I was lonely after a marriage break up and esteem probably not the best) and also I felt terrible if he did have a GF that I was some other woman hanging around with her man. I told him this and for a few weeks it would be fine and then he'd get in touch again, ask me to do something and then I'd relent and say fine and then immediately after say let's just leave whatever our friendship was there as it mad me feel uncomfortable. Even though I adore his company. We were very comfortable with eachother just chatting etc.

Anyway this went on for a good few months, I know, my boundaries were crap but I have been in a funny place and it was easy going and thought to myself stop being dramatic. Anyway over the last few months he has been in touch and the last time he asked me to do something I said no he persisted and I relented, admittedly because I usually do these things alone and having the company is nice. So the last time he went all out and lit a fire on the beach one evening and we sat there for hours (in previous thread people suggested I made this up) I havent! That's why I am here! He went to such an effort and at the end of the evening kissed me. Given all my previous messages saying lets just leave it I thought this time, I'd just go to ground to sort of sniff him out. It was two weeks ago and he hasn't been in touch at all, I know he is expecting me to get in touch but I cant this time. Why would someone go to that sort of bother and then not have the basic courtesy to say, that was a nice evening though sorry in hindsight I shouldnt have asked you and shouldnt have kissed you.

I am not looking for people to tell me on he is into me (if he was I wouldn't feel so hurt) - what I do want is someone to help me deal with my anger with him. He persisted and persisted, set up this lovely evening, was clearly pretty happy with himself and then not even an acknowledgment. I should have said that evening when I saw the set up why aren't you here with your GF but I was just taken aback.

Sorry I know I come off as ridiculous but I have kept trying to back off and then he reels me in again and now after the last evening I just feel so hurt and stupid. I have had the crappest few years and just feel like he is a shit test the universe has sent me and I am failing miserably.

Honestly I want to text him and tell him he is an a**hole. But I know I shouldn't even though I really want to. I have to sit here passively and let him get away with toying with me.

Sounds like an asshole just looking for an ego boost and enjoys messing with you're emotions.. He wants to know if he can have you. He'll be back trust me but don't reply because he'll do the same thing again. Hope you start feeling better soon.

Thank you. I think I was trying to see the good in things so much, I didn't want to have to deal with more fall out from another shit scenario. He knows what I've been through, acts so thoughtful but all the whole is just cruel by getting in touch all the time.

Sorry, I was headed somewhere else with that. Nevermind it!

To you and anyone else - am I being totally OTT with my problem or feelings?!

I thought you were having a bit of a go lol. Never mind
No you’re not being OTT