DH’s conversational style

[HebburnPokemon]

Whenever I have a conversation (big or small) with DH, he does something that upsets me every time. I’m autistic so I could be totally overreacting here, but no one else seems to do it to this degree.

When I make a point, he will reply to my point with a different perspective, even if it is not a perspective he holds personally. What is this called? I feel my comments are never accepted on face value, and it makes me feel sad and tired because it’s multiple times a day.

He says it’s how normal people have conversations.

Willing to accept I’m out of order here.

He gets easily frustrated (ADHD trait!). When I met him he was an alcoholic which masked all these traits (I didn't know he was an alcoholic till later). That's a whole different topic!

But when he became sober (a few years now) his personality changed dramatically and he has got to the point where his default setting is chronically discontent, frustrated, defensive and stressed. Ashamed to say I preferred the alcoholic. I feel guilty for feeling this way as he's worked so hard to remain sober - it's an immense achievement. But when he was self-medicating with alcohol he was way more carefree, caring, and picked his battles.

What if you tried asking him just to listen once, zero argument , with examples, to how his behaviour makes you feel, and asking him to modify it? And maybe initiate conversations on subjects that interest him, the news, his day, whatever, rather than having to always expand upon something inconsequential you've said as subject matter?

Maybe if he listens, you could agree on a good humoured signal when he is questioning tiresomely and needs to change the subject. My DSis is lovely but a monologuer (not a showoff, our parents are just a bit odd and didn't model good conversation. I get mine out on here). Her DP has a discreet hand signal for when she needs to wrap up a story in public.

If he isn't receptive, I would be reconsidering the relationship. A toddler going 'why, why, why' or countering everything isn't good adult conversation and sounds like it is quickly becoming very boring especially if he can't take feedback on the chin himself.

I worked with a woman like this. Always offering alternatives or a contra position. I respected her experience hugely but I'd very often thought of her suggestions or objections first. It was belittling and tedious having to always run her gauntlet for decisions that weren't even her side of the house.

@Frogandfish Bless your sister. She sounds autistic?

Always offering alternatives or a contra position.

What do you think were this lady's motivations?

So what if he has ADHD? It’s not a good reason for that bullshit.
Please reflect on whether you want to waste your precious life with this man.

Does he do it to other people? Specifically other men? How he interacts with others gives you a clue whether this is something he can control.

I asked him if he does it to his (male) boss. He said he does.

Why over analyse it? Just leave him if it annoys you that much.

When you're married and living with kids, just binning your husband isn't that easy.

Is it a male ADHD thing? Because I have ADHD and I absolutely despise when people "play devil's advocate" during a discussion. It's disingenuous and pointless - why argue a point you don't even believe in yourself? Waste of time. I put a lot of thought into why I think what I think, and I just feel conned when the other party takes the piss by making up a meaningless view.

Why does the "devil" need advocating for anyway - I like to ask someone who admits to this "which devil are you actually advocating for right now, and why?" Because it's usually not a good one when they think about it that way.

Your husband sounds very condescending and controlling imo, in that lunch conversation. It's perfectly normal to order your favourite food when you go out. It's like he's just picking on you to make you feel small.

Yeah, I'd find that draining. Turning every conversation into a debate - no thanks. It's not you OP

‘Says he does’ yeah ok he’s a bully

why argue a point you don't even believe in yourself?

I know right 😭This seems like a great deal of effort.

He says "That's how normal people have a conversation." When I responded, "But my work colleagues don't do it". He replied, "Only because they are being polite."

See, in his eyes, he knows best. Always.

Bear in mind OP that you don't have to justify anything to him in these "conversations ".

It takes practice, but if you can get to the point when you acknowledge he has said something contradictory, but don't try to convince him of your view, then he might well get bored of this tactic. Even if he doesn't stop, I think you'll feel less disempowered by it.

Like, "I understand you don't agree/I'm aware of how you feel. Nevertheless I'll enjoy eating my favourite food today."

Or something like "Yes, that could be true. However this is what I'm going to do/how I'm going to do it."

Or "I know you think I'm wrong, but I don't. So I'm not going to debate it."

Remember: you don't have to attend every argument you're invited to.

Save your energy for the times when looking at different views and discussing them is actually helpful to you.

No, most people tend to only argue points they believe in. Not take positions merely to be contrarian and dismissive.

Conversation is more about finding common ground than having continual debate.

Does he tell you what is "normal" often? Because the interaction you describe there is not normal. It's the action of a man who wants to entertain himself and puff himself up by winding you up.

if you can get to the point when you acknowledge he has said something contradictory, but don't try to convince him of your view, then he might well get bored of this tactic

I hear you. And I will take this approach going forward.

I am coming to terms with the fact that if I stay in this marriage, there is a chance I will never experience a close relationship. I may never be able to be myself. And I may never feel emotionally safe. :( His aggressive and rejecting response to my raising the issue has made me feel hopeless. He was chastising me with comments like, "See, I can't even have a simple conversation with you, so I'll just stay quiet and agree with everything you say!" Like, I'm the only one with the problem. I have cried so much.

Does he tell you what is "normal" often?

Only when defending himself.

Instead of ruminating about whether it is part of his yet-to-be-disgnosed ADHD and whether therapy or medication is going to change him, I think it would be wiser to say "OK, this is who he is. He is not going to change much from who he is. Do I want a lifetime of this?" Because Mumsnet is full of women with husbands who have very draining personalities and it is as if they haven't chosen that man and then chosen to stay with him, and continue to make that choice every day.

You have made quite a few complaints about your DP and how he makes you feel. He is not going to change. So do you want to stay with him or not? Your choice.

Is it possible that he's an over thinker (possibly linked to ADHD traits) and he doesn't just have one opinion buzzing around in his head but has all the opinions (and all the counter arguments) all bubbling away and when you voice one option/ opinion and he responds, it gives him an outlet for some of the other things bubbling away in his brain?? So when he's given an opportunity to 'say what he thinks' instead of getting his actual opinion you are getting one of the multiple other opinions he's considered (that is different to the one you already voiced).

As an example, if I've already considered what's in the fridge/ cupboard, how much time we have and run through a number of possible meal choices and the pros and cons of each and then ask OH what's for dinner... if he says 'how about X'... I'm likely to point out what we have that needs using up that would be a better (in my opinion!) choice or explain why X will take too long and why Y could be better...

This, and not butting in when someone else is speaking because another idea has popped up, are hard impulses to control and a hard habit to break!

It isn't that.

Conversation shouldn't always be the other person taking a different stance, the contrary view every time.

It isn't meant to feel like the 6th Form debating society.

It becomes wearying, belittling and predictable when you just know they wont agree, ever, they'll say the opposite.

there's someone at work who does it - they're in a senior position and feel that their seniority means they must have the last word even when they don't know what they're talking about!

My husband does this. I sometimes respond directly and rudely.

”And why do you think I’m not aware of this?”

”Yes, I always order that dish and I have no intention of changing.”

”Sorry, did you say something?”

Can you train him in the 'yes, and...' school of improv?

It becomes wearying, belittling and predictable when you just know they wont agree, ever, they'll say the opposite.

This is how I feel. I worry we will end up like that elderly couple that sit in a restaurant in silence.

He’s a dry drunk.

He’s sober, he’s quit the booze, but he hasn’t dealt with the underlying issues that led to his addiction and self-medicating with alcohol. He needs to do some work on himself.

https://stepstogether.co.uk/characteristics-of-dry-drunk-syndrome/

Irrespective of what label you put on him, he is a liar who tricked you about who he is.
He may be a recovering alcoholic but he is not who you thought he was.
He is emotionally abusing you and bottom line is that you read as frustrated and ground down.
This is who he is.
Accept it and think about a future without such stress.
He is clearly impacting your mental health.
Your children need you well.
Look at your options for the future and start planning your exit.