"I stopped chasing the Hollywood vision of female friendship – and embraced the person I am"

[babymamalove]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/13/why-i-quit-hollywood-female-friendship

New article on the Guardian about female friendships. This is something I've been struggling with loads recently (trying and failing to form more female friendships), and wow. I completely relate to this article.

I'm also trying to get the point of accepting it because it is so soul destroying putting yourself out there and not getting much in return time and time again, and always being on the outskirts of group things and thinking its something like my personality e.g. I am boring or too 'nice'?

Does anyone else relate?

Just sounds like bog standard ‘I’m just not like other girls’ bullshit to me. Disliking other women and assuming your interests are unique in some way probably does make it hard to make friends, yes.

Agree. It blows my mind when people say they rely on work for a social life.

I wouldn't cry about a broken heart to colleagues, I wouldn't talk about my toxic childhood to colleagues and I wouldn't even want to party properly with colleagues. There's always a consciousness that you have to be somewhat professional. That's not friendship!

I found her on social media, and looked at Facebook, though she said she doesn't use it all that much nowadays. There are lots of great comments from people who I take to be friends, but I guess could be colleagues.

I just found her on Instagram. The camera reel she says looks so radically different to other people's looks pretty standard to me. 'Here I am taking a selfie in a lift', 'Here I am pregnant', 'Here I am with my partner', 'Here's my new dress', 'Here's some wine I was drinking'. She should see mine... it's 100% 'Here is my cat'

I never like The Guardian contributors anyway 😂 She would be in my list to avoid.

Wow, some people on this thread are really touchy about anyone who doesn't conform to the herd.

Why?

It's not about people who don't "conform to the herd", it's about people who make superior, misogynistic sweeping statements about other women and female friendships.

Fwiw, I've stood out like a sore thumb as a bit of a weirdo all my life, and didn't really find my tribe friendship wise until I was probably in my thirties. That doesn't mean I would ever assume that women who have tight female friendship circles are all airheaded bitches.

But some of the comments made in that article, and on that thread, aren't superior or misogynistic, but merely factual. Some people on this thread seem to want to pour scorn on others for merely saying their interests are different than most people's. And that does feel like herd mentality to me.

I just looked at her insta. She seems really nice and does interesting things.

She also has people commenting saying they'd like to catch up.

Looks like her child is quite young still and she's feeling a bit lonely. It's hard to make friends at baby groups. I didn't have much in common with the other Mums I met there. I was fortunate that a lot of my mates all got pregnant at the same time, so it was ready made (although not without It's problems at times!).

I think she was just having a vent, but her ire was misdirected.

I'm not scornful of anyone with niche interests - I and many others on here have pointed out that we don't have mainstream interests or hobbies, but that hasn't stopped us forming female friendships, because women aren't stereotypes. There are plenty of us out here who aren't interested in reality TV or shopping, or whatever.

It's women who go "oh, I can't be friends with women because I'm just too quirky and they're all so boring and mainstream" that make me cross. Which is exactly how this article, and some subsequent comments, read.

The point I'm trying to make is that many women are quirky, intelligent and interesting, and it's possible to be friends with those women. Rather than dismiss female friendship as something tedious and clichéd that only airheads could possibly enjoy or aspire too. You don't have to be friends with other women if you don't want to be, but to write female friendship off in this way just comes across as bitter and misogynistic.

Newspaper articles are meant to be a bit troll like/clickbaity/overdramatic to get readers to respond, or set the writer up with a controversial viewpoint!

I think the whole "enjoying people but reducing friendship expectations" thing has been around on social media (even Mumsnet) for a while now.

Many emotionally content and happy people do just focus on their partner and work and hopefully have some allies for practical goals and ad-hoc situations.

With the WFH revolution and home entertainment being super easy it's incredibly easy to do this.

Some people find their face fits easily, or have a personality or the bandwidth to enjoy the hurly-burly of keeping up with people and groups!

I personally don't like doing this, and I'm happy with how I've developed as a person but often get the vibe I'm a bit "tolerated rather than welcomed" in all-female groups.

Plus have had bad experiences with bullying or users or overly competitive types.

So I'm a bit warier of joining in, as no-one wants to end up being the group punchbag, or being manipulated into doing favours for others to overcompensate.

Like @meimei80 says often people are fairly transactional and judgemental - if people think I have something to offer they're interested, but not otherwise.

I'm single now and content.

Sadly, the difference between how I'm treated as a "lone, midrange, content non-white female" to when people have seen I have a "rich well-connected alpha male partner" is like night and day!

I am open to finding new networks and ways of self-care but agree it doesn't have to look a certain way, just take what comes easily.

Loneliness is a thing for all of us.

I think trying too hard to engage with people when you feel your face doesn't fit is a green light for predators and bullying behaviour.

Not to mention a waste of time and money - I'm glad of the journey, but I do wish I'd stuck a lot of socialising money into a Mumsnet low risk Index Tracker or crypto!

Just coming on to say that!
https://www.instagram.com/tarajudah/

@EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon There's no such thing as having interests different to 'most' people. Because well everyone likes different things! And supposedly contradictory interests are not mutually exclusive.

Take Big Brother for example... somewhat of a juxtaposition against arthouse films/human rights documentaries/books. Many people enjoy both - in fact if you Google 'why intelligent women like trash TV' there are plenty of articles. But she appears to put people into boxes.

The other big question is why, with all her erm 'interests' the writer had to resort to work/mum and baby groups. There are loads of meetup groups for every interest imaginable, and all the things she mentions are hardly male-dominated.

Society already loves putting women in boxes. Airhead. Beautiful. Smart. We're not seen as whole human beings, with diverse personalities. So many women internalise this into the sort of attitude, that the writer's talking about, and that's why it rubs me the wrong way.

Again, not to brag, but...
I love makeup, Selling Sunset and Love Island. I also love documentaries and literary classics (in their original languages... I speak/read 4). I've met lots of people like the writer who put me firmly in the airhead category... and are quite surprised, upon encountering me at some 'arthouse' event, to learn that I'm a regular.

no thanks, bye

As an aside @Capboe the writer did mention Thelma and Louise, hardly a 'group'. I managed a hen do, birthday parties etc without a 'group, unsure why this is such a problem.
I do agree that this is clickbait and the writer's just doing with writers do. But she comes across as a hypocrite/smug/superior.

You sound great @Capboe!

I have been guilty of putting people into boxes and mentally writing them off in the past, possibly as a defence mechanism because I assumed certain types of people wouldn't like me. It changed when I went to university as a mature student. I joined social groups and immediately thought, Christ I don't fit in here, and shamefully did think some of the people were a bit airheady. They are now some of my closest friends 😳 We may not like all the same things but they are lovely people with huge hearts and I'm ashamed of myself to think I mentally judged them in the beginning and almost wrote them off. It was a proper learning curve for me. Unfortunately most aren't local but I'm pretty content with WhatsApp catch ups, the occasional meet up and being at home with my cat.

Hollywood type intense friendships exist for plot and casting purposes only. In reality most people spend time with and talk to a) their immediate family who they live in the same house as 2) their workmates (8 hours a day you spend with your workmates) 3) extended family 4) people who do the same activities or hobbies as you 5) friends 6) neighbours and people in local shops. If you made a film that reflected a real person's life there would be about 100 people in the cast and most conversations would be the kind of small talk you have with acquaintances so nothing much would happen.

I think the only time people really have friendships approaching the Hollywood version is when you are a teenager or in your early 20s. Basically during formal education when you have a lot of spare time, and no commitments or responsibilities. I am an extrovert and really enjoy other people's company. But I have 3DC and work FT. I don't have the time to see my friends multiple times a week, we meet up a few times a year if we are lucky, less if they aren't local.

Do you find it difficult to make friends in the water fowl observation community, because you want to discuss the shoveler and the other girls just witter about mallards?

You’re guaranteed to get at least one airhead in the duck groups who come to discuss loons.

All I really want to talk about is the goosander I saw last week, but I'm scared of being labelled pretentious.

(It did have quite a hipster haircut. Kind of a bright red mullet).

The reason the writer made that comment is because that was the general consensus of these shows with female friend groups, there were quizzes in magazines to determine which type you was within a group of friends , it was a well known phrase. She was just quoting it.

Yes, but it's all utter bollocks and a trope.
Just like the Queen Bee nonsense.

@babymamalove You might want to read the thread I started a while ago about this topic -

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4999377-making-friends-where-are-all-the-women-in-their-30s

My theory is that as people get older and busier, you have to be a very shiny penny indeed for them to invest time in you. Either you are exceptional company for them, or you are useful in some way to them (networking, climbing the local social ladder, job opportunities).

If you are -

Generally nice or polite
Have a fairly normal job
Have a fairly normal, unremarkable past
Have interests that aren't out-there
Same cultural background or nationality as them

...then it's likely that the slot for this type of friend has already been filled for many people, by their existing friends.

Why would you want to chase the Hollywood vision of anything?

Almost everything in drama is an unrealistic portrayal of reality, especially aspirational American artifice. So, yeah, all the 'girl squad' who you can call upon at 3am, and the unbreakable bond with your perfect 'chosen family' - it's all essentially nonsense.

But of course I'd say that, because I'm a 'Miranda' and that's exactly the sort of thing she'd say...

I might get the mickey taken for this but growing up my parents didn't really socialise and for lack of a better example I completely bought into this TV based vision of friendship. The reality of a handful of crappy acquaintances or the odd separate friend here and there does nothing for me.

Luckily I've got a reasonable group of friends from baby groups now even if we don't quite have the Sex and The City lifestyle.

Groups are harder to manage. I'm very sociable, can muster a decent party group, but most of the time see people one on one or in small groups. Different friends from different life stages. Sisters from school, a uni housemate, a small group from my first big job, a couple of school mums. Some of them I discuss feminism and modern art with, some crafting, some toddler tantrums and petunia seedlings. I think that's normal - big groups are harder to navigate, difficult to organise around work and families and geographically less common. The reality is the Hollywood style groups are a writing tool and not much more.

That said, the article made me cringe. She sounds like she hasn't grown out of that student 'I'm so cool with my Sartre / Gauguin / whatevs obsession, I can't be watching Sunset Beach and working in Kwik Save like you lot' phase. I had a few friends like that in my 30's when I had DD. Had. Because I clearly bored them, or they didn't like me enough to make an effort with the things which were overwhelming me at that stage.

If I want to discuss art house and human rights, I can get that anywhere. It's not exactly rare! I want my friendships with human warmth though. I like the details of their lives, value their funny obsessions with acrylic nails or homemade baby food or whatever it is because otherwise conversation would be dull.

The thing I find easier with groups is the keeping in touch and up to date with each other. We tend to chat on WhatsApp and if some people are being a bit quiet others will be more active so it keeps going. That said we aren't that rigid, for example we wouldn't refuse to meet up unless every single person could make it for example.