"I stopped chasing the Hollywood vision of female friendship – and embraced the person I am"

[babymamalove]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/13/why-i-quit-hollywood-female-friendship

New article on the Guardian about female friendships. This is something I've been struggling with loads recently (trying and failing to form more female friendships), and wow. I completely relate to this article.

I'm also trying to get the point of accepting it because it is so soul destroying putting yourself out there and not getting much in return time and time again, and always being on the outskirts of group things and thinking its something like my personality e.g. I am boring or too 'nice'?

Does anyone else relate?

I think Hollywood has a lot to answer for. The likes of Friends, Thelma and Louise, Beaches, Sex and the City, etc give such a saccharine view of friendship as an adult. They show you living in each other's pockets when reality is so different. You meet a partner, start a family and friendships change, you may be the single one in the group or the child free one but friendships don't stay how they were. But because it's not portrayed like that on TV or film you think there's something wrong with you. Same with the portrayal of families, I don't know any family that lives cheek to jowl like they do in the soaps.

The portrayal of teenage friendships are so much more realistic, I'm going to show my age here but I always found the likes My So Called Life and Buffy (minus vampires obviously) showed friendships much more how they were, a group of misfits who bond over something.

I find people who struggle with friendship expect a lot from me to ease the relationship as I’m fairly easy going. As I get older I haven’t got the time or energy to coax out of someone their inner loveliness and hold their hand as they attempt to learn how to interact. That goes for people who are a bit awkward but also people who outwardly fit in but cannot get past small talk. Also I’m not making friends at work unless you’re an absolute gem of a human being as I’ve been bitten far too hard in the past.

I feel as I get older I really piss people off because I won’t bend myself and give my time to be their friend, as I think they would quite like me to be their friend. But expectations of me are too high and I’ve spent too much of my life pouring myself into people who can’t or won’t give anything back. So it is harder to make friends as you get older as I guess people like me get more selective on where they will put their effort in. Feel free to make snidey comments that I can’t be all that as you wish 😁

And people wonder why those, like myself, who are ND find it so hard to make friends…..there is an awful lot of stuff going on underneath and a lot of people not making anyone allowances…lovely.

I think even in the best case scenario to make new friends as an adult you have to put in more than you will get back. When you're younger and in proximity with peers things can just "come together" without obvious conscious effort, I've not found that in adulthood. People must have different limits for how much effort they're prepared to put in.

I mean she doesn't look the most approachable in the column photo.
Seems to me she's just an introvert & at 40 has realised that's ok.
The article isn't really saying anything more to me than that.
Oh she has a dig at people who like using emojis.
Meh. Whatever love.

Agreed. The typical MN reverse snobbery manifesting again on this thread.

to me she comes over as feeling like everything is a bit beneath her - a good rule of thumb is to work out if you are the common denominator

So every group of women ever have isolated her for one reason or another? hmmm not sure

So now women have to 'look approachable' or accept we won't have any friends? Lovely.

Would you judge a man according to whether he looked 'approachable', out of interest? I suspect not. The idea of women needing to look 'approachable' is just another case of women being told they must always be smiling, albeit worded differently.

@GrumpyPanda some people are so judgmental it seems. It’s complicated enough being ND. There is so much at play that simply goes over my head, it’s no wonder I struggle really.

Everyone I ever meet says I’m a little weird. It’s not a word I like, I’m ND but that’s not a word I like either. I am me, most of my friends are “weird, ND”. I find that they are the least judgmental, kind, open and accepting people you will ever meet, very few mind games at play.

Thanks, Wryly, you’ve expressed exactly what I feel, with DH and relatives as well as with friends.

I’m sorry people say hurtful things to you, Rainbow. Maybe they’re just rather boring individuals who think anyone with a spark of difference is weird. I’m glad you have friends who sound like much more interesting people!

I know someone like that. Says every group of female friends she’s had have always isolated her because they’re jealous.

We invited her out a few time with our circle and it became quite clear what the issue was and it’s not jealousy - she just thinks she’s superior to everyone else, was rude and unpleasant to several of the women and was as tight as a badgers arse - taking drinks and leaving before it was her round.

And we’ve now heard very similar stories from other women she was briefly friends with.

Thanks @Ofcourseshecan. I’m happy in my own shoes now finally but it’s been hard growing up and never quite fitting in and not
knowing why, I only found out I was ND at 40. I now garden in my bare feet happily because I’m not keen on shoes lol!

I think the article writer does indeed sound like hard work, but not because of her interests which aren’t really that obscure at all! I also have zero interest in watching or discussing BGT or Big Brother, but haven’t had any issues finding friends (and tbh I have no idea if they watch those programs - we talk about other things).

She sounds hard work because she seems to have assumed a mould for female friendship based on a TV series which is both shallow and sexist.

Early stages of friendship can be a bit awkward as you don’t know each other well enough for conversation to flow easily, but pretending to be someone else is a surefire way to ensure it never progresses past small talk.

😂😂👏

I became a mum in my 40s and it was the first time I'd come into contact with female friendship groups since high school. But I don't agree with Tara Judah that they're superficial, or only for the herd-minded. The mums group I'm on the perifery of is lovely, they really look out for eachother and the things they support eachother through are real hardships and stuggles. Listening to their conversation recently I found out that they all run their holiday and birthday plans by eachother, to make sure noone's missing out, or there's no clash with planned surgery or such like. My immediate reaction was to think, My goodness they need to stop living in eachothers' pockets! But as I sit with the idea I think it's really sweet, and part of me is sad I'll never be included in that ritual. In truth I wouldn't tolerate it, it's so far from my normal, the idea of having to coordinate my plans with a whole host of people - yeesh! I'm introverted, I've been a loner for so many years, it's not for me. But I still think it's a good thing, and women should be proud to be part of friendship groups like this - not shamed for it.

@LilyBartsHatShop I also met some lovely ladies with my babies. I sometimes wish I could fit with them but I’m too all over the shop unfortunately. I can’t fit into the schedules because my brain doesn’t work like that. I don’t remember things, not on purpose but I fall out of the loop too much.

One of my good friends is ND, he is one of the kindest and loyal friends anyone could have. No one has a bad word to say about him.

I do the gardening in bare feet too. So much easier when kneeling down or sitting cross legged as I'm planting or weeding.

Harsh. If you leave a friendship group because you were being left out or ganged up on, it's probably just how that friendship group operates. Observe them from a distance a few weeks later and they will be doing the same thing to somebody else. It's only the left-out person's fault if they hang around vying for the queen bee's favour then participate enthusiastically in ganging up on the next victim.

Clearly, not all friendship groups are like this. But in secondary school this dynamic was more common than not, school SAHMs often behaved similarly, and my last workplace was unfortunately a prime example.

You can't really point the finger at someone who prefers to keep their distance, as if they were so toxic no friend group would ever have them. In reality it's the toxic people and their spineless hangers-on who are the ones pushing others out: the fun's in the bullying, and if there's no obvious newcomer/misfit around they will just turn on one of their own.

For me, SATC style female friendship is like Disney style true love: it probably happens for some people, but the odds are low because too many people are shallow, competitive over ridiculous things and fundamentally transactional. So you get on with your life as best you can, and if you happen across like-minded people, so much the better. It helps not to take rejections too personally and not to put off doing things that you've always wanted to do, but would feel like a saddo doing by yourself. Life is short - but it can seem painfully long when you're in the wrong company!

Well I'm also ND and I find that both ND and NT people are equally inflexible when it comes to 'making allowances'.
And it's their right. An unfortunate fact of adulthood. We're not in school anymore we have limited time, busy lives and choose who to mix with.

Most of my friends are ND but I've also had to drop people, both NT and ND (although I might never know of course unless they tell me) because we just don't suit each other.

@umami89 I remember someone telling me my baby was an orchid baby. There are dandelion babies and orchid babies. Dandelion ones are easy, will grow anywhere get on with anyone and Orchids need a little more care and suitable environment but they are beautiful when these needs are met. I look to myself as an orchid baby. I’m not for everyone but for the right ones in the right place I’m just right.

I have had groups when I was younger. Some were happy times and sometimes not.

But the elusive group does not have to be the only friendship goal to have.

I have 6 friends I see as mini groups or individually. I also have acquaintances and work friends. I am so much happier now than when I had lots of friends. I prefer smaller, genuine and more meaningful connections. I believe this is the way forward.

I’ve never been someone who is into big friendship groups. I have maybe 8 close friends who I do different things with. Sometimes as a small group or as part of a wider circle of acquaintances other times just 1-1. Some of them know each other, others have never met

I’ve always found having different friends for different purposes a healthier dynamic than one big girls group but it’s obviously what works for everyone is not the same.

It’s sad that we are nation of one size fits all. We all try to fit, either blaming each other or blaming ourselves for being different. It’s not other people’s fault if you don’t fit and it’s not yours for not being able to twist yourself in knots trying. I wish so much that we could teach diversity more and that’s it ok to be and like whatever you like. I’m forever telling my 8 year old that it’s absolutely fine who she is. She says other girls bully her because she is “different”. So already she thinks she is weird and other girls are telling her she is weird as her likes don’t 100% align. She will find her people when she stops looking in the wrong place and builds that self esteem.