"I stopped chasing the Hollywood vision of female friendship – and embraced the person I am"

[babymamalove]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/13/why-i-quit-hollywood-female-friendship

New article on the Guardian about female friendships. This is something I've been struggling with loads recently (trying and failing to form more female friendships), and wow. I completely relate to this article.

I'm also trying to get the point of accepting it because it is so soul destroying putting yourself out there and not getting much in return time and time again, and always being on the outskirts of group things and thinking its something like my personality e.g. I am boring or too 'nice'?

Does anyone else relate?

I don't think this is always the case. A woman who finds herself in a string of abusive relationships, for example, is often a result of being drawn to particular relationship dynamics, low self esteem and having poor boundaries. The same can be true for friendships. I'm a good listener and like to be helpful and supportive. I've had a few 'friends' throughout my life who have dumped on me, used me as their therapist during a difficult period in their life and then fucked off never to be heard from again.

There are other reasons, like shyness and awkwardness, introversion, health issues that mean you have to cancel a lot, or having parents who never socialised so not knowing how to do it for example. Just because you struggle to make or keep friends doesn't necessarily mean you're unlikeable or that you're fundamentally flawed in some way.

It's such a shame, especially considering ND people make up a large proportion of the population. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD after struggling my whole life, feeling like a total fuck up, incompetent, worthless, different, incapable of functioning like a 'normal human being'. And I still feel alone, and unable to tell anyone, because of the horrible attitudes around it.

I like the article because I think it reinforces a de-stigmatization of diversity, of 'weirdness',* which is long overdue. Too many people live small, constricted lives because they fear the judgement meted out to people whose vibe is somehow solitary or different. I always used to laugh at my DM for regularly wailing "Whatever will the neighbours think?!" in horror at any tiny scintilla of individuality that I may have inadvertently showed, but I think most of us still live our lives by similar precepts, even if we don't go around talking like Hyacinth Bucket. What would you do and who would you be, if you weren't seeking in-group approval on some subconscious level?

• Obviously, Hipster Coffee Arthouse Lady in the article isn't "weird" in any reasonable sense of the word, and I think some of the hostile reactions on here unfortunately stem from that. Her interests do tend to be shorthand for a kind of off the peg, zero risk generic faux-individuality that the rest of us rightly roll our eyes at. It goes without saying that people who are genuinely intellectual/alternative/connoisseurs of some niche thing (or whatever the hell hipsters want us to think they are) don't go around congratulating themselves on being better than people who watch Love Island. That stuff just isn't on their radar as a status marker, and they don't care what people in general think of them.

I've struggled all my life with female friendships and much prefer the company of men. I'm awkward, useless at small talk, don't have a conventional life ( no marriage, chikdren, family) to act as ' social glue' and can come off as standoffish due to excruciating anxiety. Women will judge, exclude, and put me in the weird pile due to these characteristics, whereas men will overlook these things and are happy to form a friendship based on our mutual likes - travel, live music, books, film etc.... I adore women and crave their friendship but I'm ' othered ' so I don't stand a chance really. it's took me many decades to accept it, but I really don't fit in.

To be clear- I was commenting only on the article- but I do think there is an edge of 'ooh look I'm so different and quirky compared to people who like Big Brother' when the interests that she is citing are actually fairly bog standard ones- foreign cinema, architecture

I think it comes across slightly superior

I have lots of friends but only do one-to-ones. Very occasionally, groups of three.
Group dynamics are kill-joys, and groups kill any prospect of interesting conversations too.

I used to think I had a good circle of friends who liked me for me and we were mutually supportive.

Then DH came out as trans and blew the family apart. Suddenly those people I thought were close friends dropped me like a hot brick. Full on crossing the street to avoid me, blocking me from WhatsApp groups.

DH of course was feted by everyone. Gained a whole new circle of fawning gal pals. Meanwhile I don't even have anyone to share a coffee with. So I have to get used to doing everything alone.

There are a couple of honourable exceptions, true friends who have stuck by me. But they live at the other end of the country and we can only meet occasionally. So day to day I do everything solo.

At this point I don't think I will gain any new friendships. I just don't trust people anymore.

Jesus @WifeOfTiresias, what an awful shock that must have been. And what shitty ‘friends’ you had. I’d do everything I could to support a friend in that situation. I’m sorry you’ve been let down.

Thanks @ThePrecipitationPigeon. It was certainly a bombshell. Never expected the awful reaction I got. Suddenly I was kryptonite, as if I was at fault for what happened in some way. Everyone fell over themselves to support DH but I became a sort of embarrassment and was completely excluded. They just wanted me to go away.

On the upside I have learned to just get on and do everything I want to do alone. I don't need to factor in anyone else's preferences and can just please myself.

to me she comes over as feeling like everything is a bit beneath her

i think this a self defence mechanism - you justify to yourself why you didn’t fit in. You aren’t going to say I’m selfish/ lazy or I deserve to be disliked by these people, they’re too pretty or nice to have rubbish me in their gang. Too depressing.

I agree, @Scintella, I think it is a defense mechanism.
But it's such a shame, and so unnecessary. There really doesn't need to be anything depressing about not fitting in.
Some people are group-bond formers, they meld into a small group collective, and that's a fine way to be and can lead to a good set of experiences.
Other people (I'd include myself here) are introverted, follow the beat of their own drum, loners - and that's also a fine way to be, and can lead to a set of different, but equally wonderful, experiences in life.
I think it's a shame that so often the intinct is to respond to differences by ranking them. Which is the better way of being? Nonsense! I think the article highlights an important difference between women but fails because she wants to look down on those unlike her.

My oath, that article reeks of Not like Other Girls. She's so special but can't figure out why women with whom she has little in common don't want to be her bestie?

It's not hard to make friends if one joins interest groups and keeps it light. I have friends I've made at a knitting group. We don't have a hell of a lot in common beyond that - they're grandmothers, I'm childfree and don't actually like children - but it's perfectly possible to have a general conversation about ordinary things, have a laugh, sympathise with problems, without getting on one's They're So Inane high horse, or expecting deep connections.

All my past friendships were reason or season - friends made through work or online - and as life moved on for all of us, we've lost contact. It happens.

I've never had a group of friends where competitiveness played a role. Competing over what?

Sister! 😸😸

I just found her on Instagram. The camera reel she says looks so radically different to other people's looks pretty standard to me. 'Here I am taking a selfie in a lift', 'Here I am pregnant', 'Here I am with my partner', 'Here's my new dress', 'Here's some wine I was drinking'. She should see mine... it's 100% 'Here is my cat'

I also looked and chuckled- her instagram is just like everyone else's, there is nothing art house about it or unique. I get what she's trying to say but the way its worded makes her sound like she's above the joyful simplicities of life.

The thing I most appreciate about my friends is the range of topics we can discuss. We can be very serious and philosophical about really deep topics and the next moment be laughing about something superficial and unimportant. Why cant you have both- balance is important and I think it shows emotional intelligence to be able to discuss a range of topics.

When I see family and friends post pictures of baby showers, hen parties and birthday celebrations, I wonder why my own camera reel looks so radically different. Scroll through my social media and you will find shots of speciality coffee, documentaries about human rights abuses and the auditoriums of old theatres

This statement here is a flat out lie- her instagram feed is full of pictures of herself pregnant, multiple selfies in different outfits, eating a doughnut, and the very mundane stuff she goes out of her way to criticise in her article. I find people that go on about how "different" they are from others to be quite obnoxious in real life and they are missing many key elements that connect us as humans. We all have some elements of shared experience and if you cannot find anything at all then I would suggest you arent really looking for it because it goes against your narrative that you are "different" and that your interests are somehow above others. If thats what you prefer to cling to then go for it but at least be aware that its you thats preventing connection with others and not that everyone else is somehow falling short of being worthy to be your friend.

I'm sure it's just clickbait, but... I just spent a weekend with a group of female friends that originated at university and we are very different these days, 35 years later... though I'm sure from the outside we look cookie-cutter identical. The dynamics are interesting, but not as simple as Queen Bee and others. I can see that the others have to put up with a lot to keep me in the group, and that's uncomfortable. It's not simple. And yet, we definitely are friends and have tried to support each other through a lot. Part of the trouble is that we do talk about politics and a range of things, and we don't agree politically any more. I noticed that we didn't bring up a couple of contemporary topics that could have caused a row - I consciously decided to avoid one of them myself. So that could be considered a compromise, but it seems very normal to me to choose topics a bit on order to enjoy these fine people's company. Maybe that makes me shallow.

Queen Bees aren't really friends. It is all about them and who can be their minions. I once worked in an office with a supervisor like this and it was embarrassing watching the rest of the team act like minions and kowtow to her so she 'liked' them. They'd pretend to like all the same music and TV shows she did. I hated them all. I just never said. She wasn't even a good person or someone you want as a friend. She would often say "I'm Queen" in the style of Miranda Richardson from Blackadder.

This wasn't a friendship situation, it was work, but I always felt 'other'. And thank goodness I did. It was a summer job (June-October) but it felt like much longer.

What do you mean, @PermanentTemporary, that the others 'have to put up with a lot to keep me in the group' -- are you so very difficult? Are they making more compromises than you are because your political views don't dovetail with theirs or something?

Oh no... just that, for example, I had a glitch halfway through the weekend and thought I would leave early, and not surprisingly one of my friends was pissed off because she is insanely busy and caring for her elderly dad, but still prioritised coming away with us. I always have 'want to leave early' moments, usually for no very good reason (this time I just missed dp, though I said it was work) and that's destabilising at any group event. Anyway, I ended up staying.

I dont like queen bees either prefer meetups one to one. Agree hobbies good. Met a girl through walking and we catch up soon. Find friends tricky at 50s as elderly parents and more demands everyone is tired.