Wife no longer interested since kids - advice

[Swimmingtosurvive]

Really would appreciate another perspective in this situation from somebody who may have been in a similar boat.

Me and wife have been together for 19 years, married for 12 and now have two kids (8 and 5). Since kids have been born our relationship has nose dived. We have maybe 1 date night a year but even that is stopping. We haven't been intimate since second child was born. It just feels like there's nothing left.

I feel like I've tried to make an effort. Quite a few times I've tried to arrange for us to go out or have a date night at home, but it's been refused. I try to go out of my way to be there and help her. Yet it isn't reciprocal.

I'm fully aware that the situation will be down to both of us and that I will have made mistakes that contribute to this. I have tried to speak to my wife about it. She has just said that since having the kids she has no interest in spending time with me but that I've done nothing wrong. The kids are here focus.

My worry is that if we don't look after our relationship, it is ultimately going to affect the kids and when they leave home we'll be left with nothing. That hurt really badly and I've been having some counselling since. She would not agree to couples therapy when I suggested it.

Would really appreciate some advice. Maybe there's something I've missed or someone has had similar feelings to me/wife. Any thing will help.

What will be will be but I would give caution to op about opening up their marriage to others to comment upon, in real life and this forum.

Not many men would do this, it hints of controlling behaviour and being in charge of the narrative. Op has already said he has discussed leaving, financials and new accomodation with friends and now with us, I think a pp suggested the same with his interest only being about himself, is it not better to concentrate on the children, why have we not been subjected to pages of how he is to be co parenting.

Looks like he's made his mind up but this is just a reminder to be kind to his family on the way out.

If that's what you think then why would you be encouraging him to stay with his wife....surely you would think she'd be better off without a man who tries to control the narrative in that way?

@FiveZoo you sound weirdly invested in the wife's point of view, and rather ghastly as well

I do not think you are coming across in anyway and I think you have every right to come and express this. Maybe your wife has had depression after the last child? It sounds like you are doing all you can and as much as you need to be there for your children, your own happiness counts too.

We don't actually know if his career has benefited in the slightest. He might have progressed just as much if the OP had been working and the children had been in childcare. Many people do.

And the OP hasn't had someone "supporting him" because his wife is not supportive. You can choose not to believe what he has said, but you have no evidence to support the idea that he doesn't do 50% of the housework - it sounds like you are projecting from your own experience rather than reading the actual thread. From what he says he actually does, it actually sounds to me like he does more than half of the housework tbh, which is ridiculous given that the children are in school and the wife has very little else to do. He has acknowledged that his wife does a bit more childcare, but again, he is clearly very hands on with the children when he is at home, and the kids are in school most of the day, so it isn't as if she is contributing loads here either.

Saving the cost of nursery... well, maybe, if she has few skills/such low earning potential that her earnings would have been been lower than the cost of childcare, but we don't know. And in any case, I'm not talking about the set-up a few years ago when the children were little, I'm talking about the situation now when the children are in school, when she clearly isn't contributing very much at all. And that's absolutely fine if they're in a relationship and the OP is happy to support that, but in this case, the wife has totally checked out of the relationship. She is taking the piss by letting the OP carry on funding her lifestyle while she swans around going to the gym and meeting her friends while openly telling him that she has no interest in him.

It is true that the OP gets to see his kids every day under the current arrangement, and so does his wife, whereas they will each probably see them only 50/50 if they split up. That is the one benefit of the current set-up for the OP. But if that alone was enough to persuade the OP that it was worth staying in a cold, loveless marriage with someone who contributes so little, then I guess he wouldn't be thinking of leaving now, would he?

Those posters demanding to know the other side of the story ... wondering how often you do this on other threads where sex of the poster is reversed?

Or are these demands reserved for male posters?

This is a big decision.
Twenty years and two children and op really has no idea as to why his wife has disconnected.

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She has told him this is how she feels and will not explore it further. She has helpfully suggested that he hang around 10-15 years while kids grow up and maybe, maybe she will at that point figure her shit out and let him know if she wants to stay together.

This is not the way you treat a friend never mind your life partner and father to your kids. And it sets a shit example to your children of what a healthy relationship looks like.

This is what gets ow into so much trouble, believing the lies men spew out to get their own way.

Does anybody not think this may be a smear campaign.

This man has been presented as literally a perfect man, yet his wife of 20 years is unresponsive and will not give him any reasons, even through couples councelling, I just don't believe there isn't another side.

And I don't think it's possible that he has done 50% of the childcare, it's not possible when he works. For the people who believe that, they must work full time and think their child's carers do jack shit. I think he's got a cheek actually to state that he's been the equal caregiver, that's where my disbelieve is concerning this man's character.

And I am perfectly entitled to my opinion.
Something doesn't add up.

He hasn't actually claimed to do 50% of the childcare. He says they split it equally when he is not at work. He does do 50% of the housework.

There is no ow in this situation and the OP is not having an affair. Why project that on to it when it clearly isn't relevant?

I'm sure that the OP isn't perfect. None of us are, but it's curious that you're so eager to exonerate the wife and find fault with the OP, not on the basis of the facts that are presented here but rather on the basis of what you imagine must be true, based on...who knows what. Of course, the wife's account of events might be very different from the OP's story, but it's interesting how often that is pointed out on threads started by men and how rarely it is flagged up on threads started by women. Presumably you are aware that it is possible for a woman to sometimes be the one responsible for the failure of a relationship?

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But others are entitled to theirs, too. And mine is that you are massively projecting and that this is clouding your judgement.

Women do start threads on here where they are married to a good man, no money issues, no child issues. BUT they've fallen out of love, over time the ambivilance turns to irritation, depression and despair. They can't stand to have sex, avoid him as much as possible until a time arrives where you crack.

It's no-ones fault.

Mumsnetters generally advise to separate and perhaps divorce.

@FiveZoo
A smear campaign? Against who? An anonymous poster & their DP on MN?
The fact is the OP hasn't been given any advice that's different from if they'd been a DW asking for help - and lets face it we get plenty of similar posts from women asking for advice. Is this post unacceptable because he's a man? No it is not. @Swimmingtosurvive was honest from the off that he's a man and that he heard about MN from colleagues and that he came on here to see if he could get some insight into his relationship.
Now I do believe that relationship can survive and even flourish without sex etc but it needs to be based on respect and friendship but also by mutual agreement by both parties. The OP would probably happily accept this but for the fact that his 'D'W has no intention of being friends or show any respect for him.
The fact remains that we have not advised the OP any differently and even if he is misrepresenting the facts, the advice given will be valuable to someone else would it not? Nothing the OP has said so far indicates that he's a troll and he has been consistent with his narrative all along. Yes, it would be great to hear Mrs Swimming's side but we never will but do we ever ask to hear a man's side when a woman comes on here asking for help? No, we don't. Are you castigating the OP because he's a man or because you can't possibly believe that a woman would act in this way?

Absolutely.

It certainly isn't the OP's wife's fault if she is no longer attracted to her husband for whatever reason. People's feelings can and do change over time, and she might have her reasons for not being willing to work on the marriage. No criticism there.

But the decent thing to do in that scenario is to end it. Or at a bare minimum, to ensure that you're contributing equally to the household rather than using a man that you no longer love for his money.

You sound very anti men here, "the lies men spew out to get their own way", if a man had said that about women the pitchforks would be sharpened and the torches lit.
As for childcare, yes he works full time but the children are all in school so what's your point?

@FiveZoo

And I don't think it's possible that he has done 50% of the childcare, it's not possible when he works. For the people who believe that, they must work full time and think their child's carers do jack shit. I think he's got a cheek actually to state that he's been the equal caregiver, that's where my disbelieve is concerning this man's character.

If that's where your disbelief lies than maybe you should read his posts again properly? He clearly, explicitly said, that the exception to them equally providing childcare to their school aged children is the time he's at work...

He literally pointed that out proactively. I'm unsure as to why you've therefore accused him of saying something he simply hasn't?

Here's what he actually said:

I feel that I have always pulled my weight around house and kids. The only exception is when I am at work she takes more responsibility for the kids. When I am at home I spend as much time as possible with them including sorting meal times, doing the bath and bed routines and taking to clubs where possible.

Exactly. Funny how people twist the facts or gloss over stuff to suit their own agendas.

As for childcare, yes he works full time but the children are all in school so what's your point?

Christ the youngest is five, give her a chance to get back into the workforce, plus she's been subjected to her h discussing the ending of their marriage for a while now.

I wouldn't want sex with someone who is engineering the end of their union, which he is, he's got one foot out of the door, he's not interested in salvaging this.

Spot on.

@FiveZoo

You're stigmatising divorced parents hugely on this thread. Describing separated fathers as 'departed dads' is insulting and doesn't represent all of the dads I know who are no longer in a relationship with the mother of their children, but coparent amicably.

How dismissive you are of parents who make the difficult and often painful decision to end the relationship.

Plenty of people who grew up in homes where their parents were unhappy, unaffectionate with each other even if loving to the kids etc will tell you that staying together 'for the kids' isn't always the best thing for those kids. It shows them an unhealthy relationship dynamic and tells them it is normal and what they should expect. Rather than showing them two happy, healthy parents who don't live together but coparent the children amicably and with their best interests first.

You say OP isn't interested in salvaging the relationship. Did you not read his posts? He's asked her repeatedly what is wrong / what he can do better / how he can make this relationship work. He says "She says that she still wants to be with me but only for the kids. Said I am a great father and husband but just that she has no interest in spending time with me." how is that him having one foot out of the door and uninterested in fixing things?!

But the decent thing to do in that scenario is to end it. Or at a bare minimum, to ensure that you're contributing equally to the household rather than using a man that you no longer love for his money.

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This

Thank you to everyone for the comments as usual. I'm excited about the future given the advice I've got here and elsewhere. I totally understand some of the negative comments and feel I should respond so that some things become clearer.

I also want to say that the lack of sex is not a deal breaker. Sorry if I made it sou this way. I could quite happily stay in a sexless relationship if everything else was fine and there was some level of emotional connection. However, all is not fine and everything else is taking its toll on my wellbeing - this is why I came on here to get another perspective. I also get that I will have made mistakes and contributed to the situation.

@LakeSnake Yes the plan involves the children. I do not want to share details here as nothing is finalized and won't be for a while. My priority is to make sure I have the finances and means to put a roof over their heads. I'm getting some good advice from professionals and have started the process of switching work hours.

@FiveZoo I do understand your points and see why you have posted. To clarify a few things. Youngest child is 5 and about to turn 6 (June birthday), so has been in school for two years.

With regards to the 50/50 split. I will outline my usual duties in the house which I have alluded to here before. Every day I am up first the empty dishwasher, prepare packed lunches and other small chores like putting the bins out. Then wake up the kids, get breakfast and get them ready for school - with the exception of hair brushing for daughter because she likes the way mummy does it. After work I come home and either play with the kids or do some club runs depending on the day of the week, before preparing dinner often with kids helping. Then it is the bedtime routine of bath, teeth and bedtime story. Back downstairs to tidy the kitchen and load the dish washer. There's 2/3 dog walks as well to fit in. Weekends are a bit different as that's when the bulk of housework gets done e.g. bathroom cleaning, hoovering, gardening etc. On days when I am out in the evening, I add the kitchen tidying into my morning routine. So that may not be a complete 50/50 split in parenting due to work, but I do feel that I am pulling my weight.

Yes the plan involves the children. I do not want to share details here as nothing is finalized and won't be for a while. My priority is to make sure I have the finances and means to put a roof over their heads. I'm getting some good advice from professionals and have started the process of switching work hours.

Very good to hear @Swimmingtosurvive

My comment was in response to you saying he couldn't possibly be doing much if he was in work full time.
Subjected is certainly a negative term used in this context, from what he's said he's tried numerous times to find out why his wife is completely switched off from their marriage in everything but name.
As for one foot outta the door, he's clearly said he's been living like this for a long time, you surely cannot expect him to live in a loveless emotionless vacuum ad infinitum.
Again your comments come across as very misandist.

@Swimmingtosurvive
I would absolutely agree that you are doing more than enough.
I don't understand why household cleaning takes place on the weekend? I was a SAHP and always did all the cleaning during the week so that weekends were free for gardening, fun and going out. I don't understand what she's doing every day because I always made sure that cleaning was out of the way when DP wasn't at work. I nearly always cooked and DP would wash up and do the bins. I never expected DP to clean because I was at home and that was my job and we shared things like DIY and the garden. DP worked shifts so we split the school run and clubs and I still had time to see friends and be on the PTA. When I returned to work we split household stuff according to our work hours as I work part time so it's now about 60/40 and DP cooks on my work days as he now WFH.

So she doesn’t want to spend her time exclusively with your kids, she wants to spend as a 4. Has she said why?

She’s not saying she doesn’t want to spend time with you, just with the kids also at the same time. Is she trying to eke out as much time with them while they’re young, before they leave home? Is she trying to make loads of family memories while you are still a tight-knit 4? Maybe she feels your couple time will come when they’re older, I’m not agreeing with this sentiment, just trying to figure out hee motives. It may be worth reminding her tho that without maintaining your relationship as a couple, the 4some isn’t sustainable and will break apart.

Do you feel this might be the case OP, that she wants to focus on whole family time, or that she just wants you to be involved in the 4 to balance out the workload? If that’s the case, if you divorce, she will be doing a lot more of the work alone won’t she.

Maybe talk to her about this to get absolute clarity before making any permanent decisions. Why does she want to focus just on the kids when that jeopardises their family unit and will inevitably break it up and cause them disruption and heartbreak?

Out of interest, OP, what household tasks does your wife do?