Avoidant Attachment

[cookiesandoats]

Hi

My boyfriend of 2 years has an avoidant attachment. He fits every criteria. He often needs space and I'm an anxious attacher so I know we both need to work on ourselves.

I am trying to understand avoidants more. I have read up online so much stuff but it's so hard to comprehend because I am the complete opposite.

We've had an argument and I think this really is over, which I'm devastated about. But I would like to understand more, because I am really struggling. I am trying to move on, but feel like I need answers. Are there any avoidants reading this who can offer any insight please?

We were talking about our future, this ended in an argument, and he then told me that he was not in love with me anymore. This was despite telling me the day before he was. I asked which was the truth, was he in love with me and had fallen out over night, or just hadn't for a while. He said it was over night. He said we don't work. He's probably right given our attachment styles but I'm gutted as everything else was perfect, we just struggle to communicate.

I've sent him a few messages which I know I shouldn't, so I've stopped. He reads them but doesn't respond. Does he just need space and then he'll come round and talk, even if it's just to discuss what went wrong, because I've read they can come back?

Regardless, I know it's probably the end anyway as our attachments don't match, but I would like to work on it, especially for myself in future relationships.

Any advice from an avoidant as to what he might be feeling/advice from a partner of an avoidant would be gratefully received.

Do people who are avoidant block people rather than resolve conflict with someone? I ask because I used to do this a lot because I just didn't want to feel uncomfortable and would rather run away. I don't do it now because I'm aware it isn't normal behaviour and it's very hurtful.

I suppose I am ‘anxious’ and I had an avoidant once and I hate being made to feel I am too much. Never again.

Mine fell very in love, but each time intimacy would deepen he would shut down, it was horrendous. Each milestone feeling and he’d disappear for weeks, only to return again. It was like emotional snakes and ladders and I was a wreck at the end. I say ‘the end’ but of course he just ghosted me.

The final nail in the coffin was he said ‘I love you’ during sex. Never have I seen someone more frightened. Never saw him again.

And I did listen when he said he needs space, but I after a while— week or so?— would text him to say was he ever going to come back again. He’d say of course! I’m not sure how that’s me being anxious, more he being an utterly flaky leetttle baby of a man. No, I don’t miss him now.

I ultimately do not want to be going out with someone who shuts down like the Bank of England safe at any whiff of intimacy.

Really, don't waste your time trying to 'understand him'.

You'd be better off putting your energy into recovering and moving on.

How insightful. I think I just realised the guy I'm dating has an avoidant attachment style. After a few months of dating he became adamant he didn't want to date and just wanted to be friends, which I agreed to but in hindsight shouldn't have as I was still harbouring feelings for him.
Flip forward another month and I sent him a couple of flirtatious messages as friends, our contact has been several messages daily, to test the water and he really lost it with me over text, accusing me of pushing his boundaries , being spiteful, being disrespectful, demanding, you name it.
I was very shocked by his reaction considering the light-heartedness of my actions and had never experienced anything like this before.
I don't think I have any kind of attachment style, I am confident in myself and value my self worth, despite my momentary lack of judgement agreeing to be his friend but he is a charming man and we grew incredibly close.
He is also depressed, he admits this and I would offer him lots of words of comfort on his bad days as someone who has been through this I empathised.
When he became quite nasty with me recently for no valid reason, I considered this an overreaction on his part, and just remained assertive in how I dealt with him even though I was quite hurt. He blocked me, unblocked me within a day, now wants to talk things over with me.
Yes an absolute headfuck but my god I have learnt so much from this interaction with him that I will take into future relationships.

No, he doesn't have avoidant attachment style. Hes just abusive/fucking mental.

Explosive outbursts that ate spiteful and come from nowhere are often a sign of certain personality disorders such as borderline personality disorder, which seems like a likely candidate in your scenario (but potentially sociopathy or npd too).

Please do not equate this with attachment styles, which are at best, pop psychology( They were originly developed only to be applicable to toddlers!)

Please stay away from this man. He is dangerous. Learn how to spot narcissistic abuse. Only that will keep you safe moving forwards.

Ps,@Cherrypiepieces , block him and never interact with him again.

YouTube Doctor Ramini. She talks about narcissistic abuse and how to spit these people.

You should also Google "narcissist splitting". Which is when the narcissist (or similar , like borderlines) cannot see you as both good and someone they are mad at at the same time. They cannot hold those two things together at once. So they love or hate you and may bounce back between the two. Which may explain the sudden gruesome change in personality you witnessed I him.

Again, these people are dangerous. Stay away.

Please do not equate this with attachment styles, which are at best, pop psychology( They were originly developed only to be applicable to toddlers

Attachment styles are definitions of the style of attaching to people. It's not some gobbledegook. It's like saying 'Pasta is, at best, pop flour'. It's popular because it is flour, and that's not a gimmick to get you to buy into it. It just is. What attachment styles are not is a reason to stay with someone you're unhappy with. Just because you might be able to define a style, it doesn't mean you have to like it.

We all have an attachment style, @Cherrypiepieces , and the least problematic one is 'secure', so you may have that style. And your ex may have an avoidant style, which, although it might explain why he was shit to you, doesn't excuse him being shit to you, or signify that you should forgive him or stay with him.

Explosive outbursts that ate spiteful and come from nowhere are often a sign of certain personality disorders such as borderline personality disorder, which seems like a likely candidate in your scenario (but potentially sociopathy or npd too

Lots of armchair diagnosis here. I used to be explosive and pretty unpleasant, due to an anxious attachment style. Now that's sorted out (which I did for myself), it doesn't happen any more, because I choose to mix with people who don't trigger it in me. It doesn't have to mean a personality disorder, which is really quite a leap. People are arseholes for all sorts of reasons, and personality disorders are much less common. Best just to stay away from the explosives, rather than trying to figure them out. They're just 'not your people', and if they're exploding around you, you're not theirs either. The hallmark of a secure attachment style is to know that walking away is the answer, rather than trying to fix/mend the other person or yourself.

Is it not more likely you were reactive to abuse? Perfectly normal to be anxiously attached to bad people who are messing with your head, for example. Because they WANT you anxious.
It makes sense you are better now. Because those people are no longer part of your life.

Maybe you just had to work through some stuff too of course. Like recovering from past unhealthy relationships you hadn't yet worked through.

I guess it's a chicken or egg scenario.

But I certainly wouldn't think someone losing their shit at me out of nowhere, blocking me, unblocking me etc...was remotely mentally stable. And it is exactly the sort of thing cluster b personality disorders do. So I don't mean to armchair diagnose but...I certainly wouldn't normalise this man's behaviour as simply an attachment style.

Oh shit, yes, this has actually made me feel quite sick reading this back. It does actually feel quite abusive, we dated for a few months which obviously involved sex, because he can be quite generally negative in tone, I sent him a couple of these flirty messages probably just to lighten the mood sometimes and he then accused me of pressuring him into sexual conversations and persistently making sexual advances to him, honestly my mind was blown, that's not normal is it? I mean not from my experience.

I haven’t rtft, but ‘avoidants’ are just people, at the end of the day. Some will like you, some won’t. Some you might be personally compatible with, and others not so much.

What you seem to be doing is arguing with him logically ot try to convince him that he really loved you and wants to be with you, and any suggestion to the contrary is just his avoidance talking. This is not treating him like an autonomous person with his own mind. It’s controlling and patronising. I feel trapped just reading it.

The thing is, nobody needs to ‘work on themselves’ if they don’t want to. You can’t make anyone. You can only work on you, and you need to work on letting go.

Well...put it this way, I'm apparently a secure attachment type (There's a little bit of anxious and hardly any avoidant). Yet I've been seeing to guy lately and he's a little lovey dovey and it's sort of gave me the ick. I've pulled back like an avoidant would. But you know what I won't do? Take it out on him by being nasty.

That imo is the difference. Yes our approach to relationships can affect our thinking and our behaviours in them. But they alone don't make people play mind games or lose the shit and be utterly vile. (They might make you feel certain ways. But how you act on them is based on your mental health/personality).

That, is caused by mental instability.
Be it in the form of severe unprocessed past trauma, mental illness or, personality disorders.

But the way you wrote about his sudden, horrible rage at you, I dunno, it just screamed bpd to me. Again, not diagnosing.

Thank you, sorry not meaning to derail the thread as I know it's not about me but this is really helpful. When he suggested he's 'open to talking' I kindly asked if we can do it on the phone as I can't tolerate any more of this incessant texting we've been doing, he agreed but messaged me saying, 'i will not tolerate any raised voices, swearing, aggression or talking over me' he said he doesn't think this is what id do but wanted to let me know his expectations. This is a man I've spoken to on the phone once, in the whole time we've dated. Again, to me that's not normal is it?

No, nor is it one you should continue any kind of dialogue with. He will ware you down, mindfuck and exhaust you. That's what abusers do.

He's actually saying HE is going to talk over you.

If I were you I'd send him one clear text 'actually let's not have that conversation. We clearly are not compatible. I wish you all the best, goodbye'.

Then block him on everything as soon as he has read (or prepare for a barrage of abuse from him).

You do not owe him an in face meet fyi if he tries to claim you do.

"No/Do not contact me further" if you must reply. Once.

Then no more replies.
Life is too short to date nutters.
If he harasses you, go to the police.

Is it not more likely you were reactive to abuse

No, @Pinkbonbon

So I don't mean to armchair diagnose but you gave a diagnosis.

I certainly wouldn't normalise this man's behaviour as simply an attachment style

Nobody is 'normalising' anything. Someone might be 'a bit uppity occasionally' or they might regularly completely malfunction, due to the way they attach to people. You can't 'normalise' something as 'simply an attachment style', any more than you can 'normalise' starvation as 'simply being hungry'. Nobody's saying this guy's behaviour was ok. But people who can't healthily attach to others have an issue with their attachment style. Lots of people are abusive due to the way they unhealthily deal with attaching to others, and it's a hell of a lot more than how many people have diagnosable personality disorders. This guy sounds a mess, and clearly hasn't attached in a healthy way to Cherrypie, but that's no reason to start guessing at diagnoses. No professional would do that in this context, because it's wild, irresponsible guesswork.

The way that we attach to people is a very powerful force in our lives, and can make a mess or a success of us, and those we try to attach to. There's no reason to hunt for more... if someone doesn't attach healthily to you, distance yourself. Encouraging diagnostic-speak is encouraging the anxious style to obsess about the abuser, which they have enough problems detaching from in the first place! Avoidant attachers don't often get abused because they avoid it along with everything else.

I'm not diagnosing anything.
It's a opinion from someone on the Internet ffs xD

@Pinkbonbon

Wow. You're so level headed usually. Really respect so much of what you say and the way you see things. I'm stating my opinion too, I didn't mean to get your back up. Disagreeing with you or seeing things differently from you is ok, I think?

I'm just so confused, it's hard to give all the context here but out of all the guys I've dated recently, he's the only one I've felt that real 'connection' with and I'm sure he feels the same or we wouldn't be in this situation, it's made me question my actions a lot, he did state he wanted to just be friends so maybe I did push it by being too flirtatious? Idk it's a lot to process. In a strange way I kind of respect him for being so forthright about what he says his boundaries are but I also don't appreciate the way he has spoken to me. Not sure what to do now.

Absolutely fine. But it was coming across as if I was being told off or something. Let's just chalk it up to tone being easy to misconstrue online.
Love your posts too missus x

Well a connection means sod all if they're going to drive you nuts.

Peace of mind, sanity and self love are more important than some guy you've dated for a few months. And they're things he'll take from you given have a chance.

Assuming you've never shouted and sworn at him etc...then I don't believe he is actually stating his boundaries... it's more likely he's telling you what he's going to accuse you of in the future. In order to silence you/make you feel like you night be the one in the wrong.

He's telling you he is to be heard durung this call (likely whilst he monologues if its anything like his obsessive texting) and you are to shut up. Chances are he will accuse you of raising your voice even when you aren't.

Possibly he's going to say some horrible things to you that might provoke you to raise your voice. So he can make you out to be the bad guy.

'I'm sure he feels the same or we wouldn't be in this situation'. Well abusers love having victims. There's often a very strong spark there. We mistakes it for chemistry. It's actually the energy and an excitement of a predator sizing up its prey.

They also may use use mirroring and love bombing. They'll tell you they've never met anyone like you. That youre the only one who understands them. They'll adopt your hobbies likes and dislikes.... making you THINK the connection is there. Oversharing their life to get you to build trust with them too fast...and to share your life information with them. Rushing a deepending of connection. But it's not real.

Either way op, healthy relationships should feel easy, comfortable, warm. They shouldn't put you on edge. They shouldn't be obsessively texting you to the point its irritating you or making you worry about a phonecall.

This is just 3 months in. It should be honeymoon stage easy. Instead he's already distressing you.
He's a bad egg.
Get yourself out of this.

Could have written this but probably not as pithily!

Sorry for the derail and I'll shut up after this, but... so glad we haven't fallen out, @Pinkbonbon !

@Cherrypiepieces

A feeling of connection is the very minimum requirement, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea to hold on. It's like with food; it has to be edible, as a minimum requirement. But a diet of just bread, for example, isn't a good idea. There have to be lots of other elements, to even make it enjoyable. Connection can be created quite easily, by people who aren't really in a place psychologically to have a relationship, by people who want to abuse, by people who have made promises to other people... but the connection has to feel good consistently, otherwise it's horrible. One good piece of advice I got was to stay away from people who confused me. It means that you do have to walk away from people who are often just like you'd want, but not always, and that is hard, and it does hurt. But it's how to create a life for yourself with nobody confusing in it.

@Endoftheroad12345

You haven't been cured of your anxious attachment style any more than I have. We have both found compatible partners, so our attachment styles are catered for. This is what I was talking about upthread; an attachment style isn't a 'diagnosis'. It's not a pathology, and it doesn't need 'curing'; it's just a definition of the way that we attach to people.

Thank you for your comment but your comment is an oxymoron in itself. You said nobody needs to work on themselves if they don't want to, but then you've said I can only work on me and I 'need' to let work on letting go. In relation to convincing him he loved me, I never once tried to do that. I asked him for an explanation because after two years I thought I deserved one as to why one day he said he loved me and the next he didn't. You may think that is acceptable in your relationships but I certainly do not. If you feel trapped for somebody questioning what might have happened after two years of being with them, well, I'm not really sure what to say to that. Perhaps some people would like answers to understand whereas you can simply move on.

Thank you everyone for your comments, it's been really insightful. I think some comments have missed the point I was trying to get my head around, for example telling someone you love them one day and then not the next. I'm surprised questioning how somebody can do this is and trying to understand it is controlling and patronising, but I guess we will all have different opinions.

By way of update, he's been sending me some messages. I responded initially to say that he's really hurt me and his actions are not what I'm looking for in a relationship and therefore sadly I don't think we have much else to discuss.

I've seen on the updates some others are sadly going through some awful situations, which is sad to read. Thankfully my ex was not abusive.

Thanks again for everyones input.