How much should house guest offer to pay?

[Goldfishonabike]

Just that. We just had house guest for three nights, they’ve never visited the country we now live in before, so we took them out to show them the place, asked them what they’d like to do and took them
to those specific places as well as a few we chose. On all occasions they either paid for themselves and we paid for ourselves or we paid for us all. Not once did they offer to treat us to anything - like standing in a queue for ice cream they ordered for themselves no paid for themselves, on another occasion we ordered for us all and one of them said “do you want me to pay?” Just like that, and because if the way it was phrased I said no no I’ll get it don’t worry. we provided all meals at home, including one take out. They’re a family of five, so it wasn’t a low cost either.
They’re both working and own a home while one of us are unemployed and we are living in rental accommodation.
I would like to be a generous person and generally consider myself as such, but I’ve never experienced anything like this before. Usually when we have house guests, people offer to pay for a meal out or to pay our entrance to touristic places (which we anyways only visit for the visitors benefit) and when we are are house guests we always make sure to get groceries and drinks and if we go out we offer to pay for the meal.
do you think the behavior of this guests is normal? Also, do you think maybe it could be some misunderstanding, as on two occasions they did offer to pay, but to
my mind very half-heartedly aka “do you want me to pay?” And as soon as I said I’ll get it just accept it. Do you think I was too over eager to be generous or is it normal
ti expect the hosts to pay everything?

One addition, especially if you are from different countries, cultures, and languages it is good to just discuss things at a face value. Britishness is very confusing even amongst Brittons, and doesn't work in international communication. "Do you want me to ...?" is a way how some people express normal questions (I met it when instructing people where to click in computer software, so it was 100% genuine verification of the next step).

What's the exchange rate like? We always pay for people visiting us from my home country, because their currency doesn't go far here, and if they came just to see us, we also factor in that they spent a small fortune to come visit us, so we can cover meals and stuff.

We always adjust to the 'type' of friends or family we host. And to the duration too.

We have friends we know will struggle to pay to travel to us. So we will not organise expensive outings, unless we are prepared to pay for them. Or organise things which do not cost much- so as to not make them feel uncomfortable. If they stay for 3 days, we would expect to provide meals, etc. If for longer, we always ask if they could cook every few days to give me a break, and say we will go out for a meal every few days and take it in turn to pay. We will go to restaurants or places which will be adapted to their budget too. From simple pub to Muchelin * if we know that's their style and they can easily pay. Just depends- our friends and family are very varied, some have a very tight budget, others are very well off- we adjust.

But yes, a proper offer to pay is clear and insisted upon, with a smile, as in 'no, we'll get this, our turn and pleasure'. When we are staying as guests, DH will pretend to do to toilet and pick up the tab- done!

Yes same for us! DH is from a very generous culture and I do find he/we get r taken advantage of when we’re with people less generous.

So over 3 nights (long weekend?) you were out a lot, during which time they paid for themselves, brought a present but it wasn't deemed big enough and accepted your hospitality at home. They offered to pay and you refused on one occasion for ice creams.

I think they should have paid for one meal, maybe the takeaway, and some drinks if out but you should have accepted their offer. I wouldn't really have expected a contribution to groceries or breakfast for a 3 night visit if close friends.

It sounds like there's a cultural factor involved (don't know where from I've seen good friends get into a scuffle over who doesn't pay).

I think they've dropped the ball a bit in terms of the etiquette I've been taught which is quite reciprocal, but that may be different from what they're brought up with. Tbh, it's not by enough to cause resentment. Not to lecture you but if things are a bit tight and they hadn't offered to treat you, simpler meals would have been fine rather than takeaway. Or suggest a split.

They were rude.

I visited my brother in London for the week over Easter. I had a crate of wine and cheese/nibbles hamper delivered before we arrived. I also did 2 shops while there and cooked 2 of the nights as my DB and SIL were working.

We paid for the take away and dinner out on both occasions. We did various trips (2 had been pre paid for) which I gave my SIL the cash for, she refused - so I stuck it in the kids piggy banks.

The cost of staying in an air bnb or hotel in London would have been far more expensive and I was grateful for their hospitality.

I would always also accept the offer if it’s made in a way that appears genuine. The thing is that the offer didn’t seem genuine.
The guest was hanging back when I was ordering for all the kids, and then said hesitantly “do you want me to pay?” So for me that sounds like they didn’t really want to pay and was in doubt if that was required/appropriate in the situation. I have never had anyone ask me that before my entire life, lol. People have either said “let me get this” or something to the effect,
or if they wanted/expected me to pay, then there has been the dreaded kind of tense hesitant moment when it comes to paying where they don’t move forward to pay, and I then sense they don’t expect to pay and end up offering to pay and I never ask “do you want me to pay?” I say “I’ll get this”.

I would like to think that is the case! But once the host has twice offered to pay for everyone, wouldn’t you as a guest then cotton on to the fact that we were in a situation of “rounds” and seize the opportunity next time it comes to paying for a jointly ordered treat, to come forward and offer to pay? Or at least do it just once in a way that made sure it happened?
just the week before we visited another friend who is very generous and she kept insisting on paying for things so DH took me aside and said “let’s make sure we pay for the next thing we do”, and we did, by immediately offering to pay and rejecting her counter offer with a smile.

OP, just make a rule for yourself for next time and only do things they way you want them, i.e. everyone pays for their own meals out etc. As a host I'd expect to feed and house them when we are home, but forget about expecting anything back. I'd expect them to do the same for your when visiting them, but no more. This way you know what's coming and any flowers, invites etc are a bonus.

My brother is like that. He stays at my place with his family, I take them out etc. On one occasion I'd just paid for a boat trip for all of us, but when he went to get drinks on the boat he did not even ask me if I wanted anything. I found this really hurtful. I am also never invited to stay at their place. I shell out for a hotel. It's not fair, but in future I won't pay for them anymore when we are out.

I would yes, but some cultures, including posh UK, it would be considered a slight on your host to suggest they couldn't host you properly and needed you to contribute financially.

I don’t know where the assumption on paying for groceries have entered the conversation, that’s a misunderstanding, I’d never have expected that or accepted an offer of that.

I was talking about paying for meals outside which were incurred due to them requesting to do specific sightseeing which then meant we were outside at meal times and came home too late to cook, but of course we could have and maybe should have just had a simple pasta the day we’d been out, but that comes down to DH’s extreme generosity due to his culture. So there’s a lot of cultural clashes going on here, cross-cultural communication is just tricky, I know it as it’s my daily life at work and at home, so generally I thought I had it down fairly well (double checking that you understood things correctly, listening for misunderstandings, being clear on plans and expectations etc) but I think I still have something to learn around money and cultural differences, so I’m also taking this as a learning opportunity for how to navigate hosting and money and cultural differences in the future.

Replies on this thread are batshit.

'Do you want me to pay' is just shit, its putting the onus completely on you, for something that should be expected, if its obvious you've already shelled out. Like 'do you want this to be fair, or are you happy that I've taken advantage of you' - it shouldn't even be a question if you've already paid for meals out, treats etc.

Yes you could have said yes, but to be honest someone accepting 10 things from me without question then saying 'do you want me to give you one tiny thing' would mean my opinion of them had changed anyway.

If you think the friendship is over anyway, are you going to say anything to them?

The exchange rate is equivalent. They are definitely better off than us financially, there is no doubt about that. They are not posh and not “working class” (whatever that means) either, they’re firmly Middle England.

I'm not sure if it's cultural either or just personalities. When I go visit one set of friend from uni, everyone is falling over themselves to offer gifts, get the bill, pay the entry fee etc. One (extremely well paid) friend will split the cost of the large items down the middle (eg meal out) but I often end up picking up all the little extras and don't always realise until I get home and realise how much its added up.

As a guest, IMO, think about what the host would be doing if they weren't there.

Would they have been visiting the local tourist attractions, having meals out etc? If the answer is 'probably not' then the whole cost is extra for the host.

It's always difficult when the guest is on holiday but the host is carrying on their normal life - especially true if living somewhere close to a holiday destination so getting to host a lot. Mid week takeaways and meals out may be great for the guest but less so for someone getting up for work/school run the next day.

I'm not sure how to easily resolve this. People we knew who moved to a popular destination in France didn't host anyone. They would make hotel/campsite recommendations and make arrangements to meet for a meal one night. They were aware of the problems Peter Mayle wrote about in A Year in Provence and wanted to avoid this.

See to me, it would’ve also been fine if we each paid for our meals out, even, and they hadn’t offered to pay anything for us. But what I found confusing was that on several occasions when food was being ordered they sort of hung back and waited for us to order, even at places where the menus were in English and the staff spoke English. So by leaving us to order, the natural consequence then became we pay as well..so on some occasions they firmly stepped to the front and ordered and paid for only themselves, on other occasions they hung back and waited for us to order for all and pay. On no single occasion did they firmly step up and order and paid.

I always feel with this you never get both sides.

Years ago on my first solo visit to USA at 16 (I had money) when I offered to pay, my American friend refused, saying “that’s no how we do it here, you’re a guest, I pay”. I did pay for something once though out of politeness. She was also Jewish.

Then the other few times I was over, the same point made that I wasn’t to pay, as I was a guest and it was rude to them if I did pay. So the time I go over when she’s had kids and I don’t pay I get passive aggressive comments aimed at me, which I ignored but then on I deliberately paid more for myself and treated them. Note, I stayed with them, they asked me to do so. I offered for them to stay with me more than once but they declined as “too expensive”.

You can’t have people stay, spend money on themselves mostly and then bitch about it if you don’t ask them what they’re doing to pay or set it out before. You can use the CoL excuse.

I think generally rules (?!) around payment should be set out before the visit or once they arrive, yes it’s not British to do this but at least you know where you stand with this.

Just turn to them and say “are you getting this or are we or shall we split it? Just so we know before we order. Is that ok with you guys?” Done.

Yes this experience has taught me I have to get over my discomfort around the topic of paying and set out the expectations clearly before a visit or joint trip. I firmly plan on doing that in the future!

Yea I get this! We don’t live in a tourist hot spot, but in a fairly attractive location, so do get some visits. I think this visit has taught me to plan better and clarify expectations more in advance of a visit. Also, cook at home all the time and don’t have takeout and if the guests want long days out just say we need to get back in time to cook dinner.

When we have people visit I wouldn't expect a visitor to pay. They already paid to come and visit me. Sometimes booking a flight or a train and I appreciate spending time with them and the effort they made to come see me and not go somewhere else.

'We'll get this' would be better than 'Do you want me to pay' I can see how you found that awkward to say yes too.

Its like they didn't really want too but felt like they should offer.

Take it as a lesson learnt and don't invite them again.

Well, I do want to give them the benefit of doubt as I think there is an element of cultural misunderstandings here and I do don’t think they’ll plan on coming to see us anytime soon again as they’ve done the trip to us and seen the main sights. It’s more likely next time we meet we will be visiting them, on which occasion I will make sure we either a)travel when our finances are solid so we don’t need to worry too much or b) don’t plan expensive things to do with them so as to not get into confusion over who pays what. I will also make sure to communicate more with DH during the visit so we don’t unwittingly end up being the ones to separately foot the bill in many situations. they live in a place with less to do anyway, so the situation isn’t likely to be the same as it was on their visit.

if they suggest to come see us again, I will say yes but plan very differently - cheaper meals at home and free activities. If we go to paid activities I will make sure each family pays for themselves.

I don’t feel I can address the situation openly without causing offense. I have lost some respect for them, but as DC’s are close and DH and the husband also get on very well, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. If it was just for my own sake, I’d drop them, as I’m less close with the wife and not particular close with the husband at all.

Yes you are so right! I should have done that. But it’s not on my culture or theirs to do that. I guess I need to learn to jsur do that and get over any discomfort

Once people are outside the house I really don’t think the ‘host should cover all costs’ apply. In the house, if you have invited someone to visit and stay over, then yes provide the food etc but having guests doesn’t give the guest carte blanche to keep their wallets/purse shut.

Communication and expectations are key from the offset.