How much should house guest offer to pay?

[Goldfishonabike]

Just that. We just had house guest for three nights, they’ve never visited the country we now live in before, so we took them out to show them the place, asked them what they’d like to do and took them
to those specific places as well as a few we chose. On all occasions they either paid for themselves and we paid for ourselves or we paid for us all. Not once did they offer to treat us to anything - like standing in a queue for ice cream they ordered for themselves no paid for themselves, on another occasion we ordered for us all and one of them said “do you want me to pay?” Just like that, and because if the way it was phrased I said no no I’ll get it don’t worry. we provided all meals at home, including one take out. They’re a family of five, so it wasn’t a low cost either.
They’re both working and own a home while one of us are unemployed and we are living in rental accommodation.
I would like to be a generous person and generally consider myself as such, but I’ve never experienced anything like this before. Usually when we have house guests, people offer to pay for a meal out or to pay our entrance to touristic places (which we anyways only visit for the visitors benefit) and when we are are house guests we always make sure to get groceries and drinks and if we go out we offer to pay for the meal.
do you think the behavior of this guests is normal? Also, do you think maybe it could be some misunderstanding, as on two occasions they did offer to pay, but to
my mind very half-heartedly aka “do you want me to pay?” And as soon as I said I’ll get it just accept it. Do you think I was too over eager to be generous or is it normal
ti expect the hosts to pay everything?

If we've had guests we generally pay for food anywhere except if it's a main meal out or a big take away, but I would even expect them to cover the takeaway as we could've cooked ourselves and its our choice. I would be pleased with flowers from friends or wine on arrival but don't expect it. I would plan a few trips I think is in the norm for their lifestyle, a big ticket fee I'd expect them to pay for. I would hope people would pitch in with a bit of table clearing but wouldn't be too bothered for 3 nights. I'd be pleased people wanted to see us and hope they had a good time.

'do you want me to pay?” Just like that, and because if the way it was phrased I said no no I’ll get it don’t worry.'

You have given the clear impression that they don't have to pay and are now complaining that they have paid for anything!🤷🏼‍♀️

The reason we went to all those places is that they asked to go there! So yea that was their choice. We went on two full day trips out, so on those two full days that’s lunch and snacks out, so we paid for two lunches outside and treats on three occasions. As well as one takeout which we had as we got home from a full day of sight seeing too late to cook. On on me lunch it was all bought in a food market and I explained how it materialized we paid the vast majority of that, and on the other occasion I was ordering in the local language and they just stood there, didn’t offer to pay. On the occasions for the treats, I again ordered in the local language and only once was the offer made to pay. For other treats, they went ahead and bought pointedly only for them and this was after we had paid for all! But I do think that maybe they just felt too awkward too and didn’t know how to counter offer. The thing that will prove this to me is if we ever go and stay with them, will they treat us then in return. Maybe I should give them the chance

I completely get it Op, 'do you want me to pay?' Is a total half hearted offer - it is a question that invites a yes or no answer.

Also in my culture (Irish) this would invite a 'no of course I don't want you to pay' - that is the culture. Reading between the lines it is really translated as 'I think you should pay for this but I will make a heart hearted offer to pay, which I expect you to decline'.

People may scoff at this but that is just the way it is.

But again, I am used to people fighting to pay for stuff not the other way around. So I would have been - 'I insist on getting this as my treat, what does everyone want' and then shut down any attempts on Ops part to pay. That is a real offer of payment.

Given this incident taken as part of the whole description - they are clearly tight as fuck. I think if you entertain them again you just have to be as brass neck in 'not paying' as they are.

Yes that is how I feel! In the moment to me it felt as it wasn’t even an option for me to accept the offer. But I see now I should have! I guess cultural differences come into play here too, though. So willing to consider it may have been genuine and just clumsily worded, and my fear of appearing tight wadded made me reject the offer.

My overall conclusion is now:

• the guests weren’t expecting our level of generosity, perhaps for cultural reasons, and when it happens they felt awkward
• instead of then counter offering and becoming generous themselves, they decided to take it as an unexpected windfall and just enjoy the generosity with no concern for our budget
• on the occasions where they had the obvious chance to offer to pay they decided not to for whatever reason
• depending on circumstances and how we feel we may go to see them again as DC’s are close, and on that occasion keep our wallets closed and see if they decide to treat us in return, but of course budget for that they don’t. Will make the visit short (like one night) so if they turn out to truly be tight assholes, we don’t have to stay long and surely resentful.
• in future, when hosting friends for the first time, where no routine of sharing expenses or taking turns in treating each other has been established, I will make expectations clear from the outset and won’t create situations where we are relying on the guests to volunteer to pay (such as ordering for all in the local language).

You still didn't say where the family travelled to to see you, and also was it a stop off on a main holiday or specific trip. Did you invite them or did they invite themselves ,did they want a cheap trip away or did they want to see you in the main ? Did you have fun with them?

they came to stay with us specifically as we had been talking about that for years, since we moved. They also wanted to see the place and made specific requests for what to do and see when they were here. Yes, we had fun with them, except for one incident involving their kids where they enforced choices our kids didn’t like for the benefit of their kids. That’s what’s making me sad - that overall it was nice to see them, perhaps the cultural clashes around paying for things were just too complicated.

@Doingmybest12 I am not sure how those points are relevant really? If you go and stay with someone (no matter who instigated the visit) you are immediately saving on accommodation and other associated costs (such as the meals you have in the house)

They clearly were not there on protest - they visited various tourist attractions at their request.

They took the hosts generosity and took the piss clearly. It is not as though they 'paid their own way' - they took offers of payment and did not reciprocate when it would be appropriate to do so.

We had someone like this stay with us. Took them on the tourist trail (which for a local is really something you only do when guests are in town) and they never offered to put their hand in their pocket - relying on us to order and pay in the local language and not even acknowledging payment.

When someone asks if you want them to pay instead of saying they’ll pay, they are just being polite and expect you to say no.

How much did it cost five people to get to you? They simply may not have enough to pay for your meals too. Also, just because they both work and have a mortgage doesn’t mean they are well off; they have three kids to feed and clothe. Are you renting and only have a single income because you’ve been expatriated?

Where are you all from? In most Asian countries, the host pays for everything.

Lovely that they made the effort to travel to you and you mostly had fun with them. I wouldn't get into game playing. If they are tight , they will not be as generous as you hope when you visit them. Just do what you think is right and be prepared when they suggest a return visit.

It sounds like you have different values around hosting and generosity- if you wish to carry on the friendship, go back to doing meet ups however you did them before this visit

I wouldn't have paid for activities out (unless this had been agreed) but I would have offered to cover a meal or at least brought a gift for someone in your circumstances

yes we are grateful that they made the effort to come here which is why we wanted to make sure they had a great time, and they did. We are currently living on one income and renting a smallish apartment, because that’s all we can afford. We are not expats in this country, but regular immigrants.

So they offered twice as she said she'd get this. I would feel uncomfortable saying it again, if Id offered to pay and then it seemed like he wanted too I would feel really uncomfortable and frozen. I think there's been a bit of a communication issue as well as maybe guests being a bit CF. I would not be comfortable with offers and counter offers to pay, but would have been kicking myself afterwards for not paying. Next time you can say DH guest is getting this one.

Yes that’s probably best…

Some of these responses are ridiculous and I assume come from equally tight users.

OP they didn't offer to pay. That's not a genuine offer. They should have said "we'll get this". You don't ASK if you're expected to pay.

Did they not even turn up with a couple of bottles of wine, or pay for a meal out?

Yes I get there are huge cultural differences here. But the wife couldn’t have missed that she only said that to me as DH wasn’t around at that moment, but maybe yes, they just didn’t feel comfortable. But then again when same situation occurs several times wouldn’t you expect they’d realize? It’s also a lot about DH and I separately paying and not realizing what the other has paid and assuming guests paid some of the instances . We have learned now to communicate more around this during a visit

They turned up with two small gifts for the kids. That’s it.

I don’t get how anyone would assume someone else would desperately want to pay for you unless they were very close to you like family or old time best friends, OR insisting to pay multiple times after I have offered to pay (as was the case with the friend we visited just before hosting these guests, she always insists on paying and then we insist and she insist and it goes on until one side yields and we make sure that us around half the time.) It’s a cultural thing, I get it, though.

I’m Scandinavian, DH Eastern European (so very generous), the husband is Southern European and the wife British.

You mentioned not necessarily wanting to drop the friendship, what do you want out of this thread? A chance to vent and hear what they did isn't ok? Very understandable to need to vent and yes it isn't ok. Do you want confirmation its reasonable not to invite them back? That would be a very understandable reaction and not unreasonable at all. Do you want a way to move past it and a way to make sure it doesn't happen again so you feel safe inviting them back?

At best there's been some miscommunication but they're still CF who are willing to have their friends subsidise them. At worst it was purposeful and they didn't want to part with a cent more than they had too. What side Id try to believe would depend on where I wanted to go from here with the friendship. If this has soured things for you and you won't be hosting them again that's a very reasonable and justified reaction on your part. If you're unsure you don't need to decide anything right now, see how you feel with a bit of time.

It certainly sounds like they didn't make a great deal of effort to try to pay for anything. Half-hearted at best.

Your guests are rude.

I think many people on here responding to your guests' half-hearted offer are being Mumsnet annoying.

I agree with one of the previous posters who said that your guests' way of asking to pay was not a genuine offer but asking you to tell them to pay. Very confusing!

They should have said "We'll get this" or similar, CV and be more forceful.

I've had something similar before. I was unemployed and on a tight budget. I drove someone to the airport. It was a long way, time-consuming and costly with petrol costs and parking fees. Their 'offer' was 'do you want me to give you any money for this?' to which the natural response is, 'no it's fine'.

YANBU.

once a couple of situations had occurred which made me realize they were being very generous and were doing the “we pay sometimes you pay sometimes” thing, I immediately adjusted to that and started counter offering and insisting to pay for things

Tbh having to insist to pay like this can also make people extremely uneasy too.
And dint get me going on the ‘fights’ to pay first and insisting it’s your turn/my turn etc….

I can see why you felt they were being rude.
On the other side, if everything looked planned (eg you clearly had planned, bought etc…for all the evening meals), it’s not easy to then come up with ‘oh let’s go to a restaurant that you’ll have to chose and well pay’. Some people would get upset about having bought food that was then not getting used.

So I’d want to put that into context. Are they usually rude? Did they expect you to pay for most of those things? Did you (as you and them) struggle to offer/not offer to pay because you were worried to look rude/ungrateful?

Agree.

I'd like to hope I'd say "oh yes please, that would be great" but it just doesn't seem a response that's suitable to asking if they want you to be laid for.

I think if you do this again you go ahead at tills and pay for yourselves only and don't offer to pay for them.

Also prior to visit suggest a kitty for groceries and meal plan together.