Have I done anything wrong?

[carpetmedoen]

Last night me and my partner had a huge argument because I went for a cuddle.
He's moods are always up and down but now I'm feeling like I've done something bad.
I just cuddled him and he said no I don't want a cuddle ,I thought he was joking so didn't move.
Then he said again no I don't want a cuddle
So I got off a bit annoyed saying bloody hell I just wanted a cuddle
He started screaming in my face "I said no"
Then he punched the door
Didn't speak all night and woke up this morning and Wouldn't get up.
Then I said are you really doing this over a cuddle
He said it's not about the cuddle
You didn't listen when I said no
I said no
He never shows me affection unless it was on his terms
Monday night he cuddled me fine
I feel really upset now that I've done something bad and don't want to go to work

I'd someone says, "No," then the correct response is to stop. If they are joking then they can come back and say so.

I'm wondering what has been left out of the comversation, though, because to go from that brief exchange to immediately jumping up, shouting and punching doors seems a bit extreme.

If that's exactly what happened, OP, then you need to leave him.

However, I feel really upset now that I've done something bad and don't want to go to work is an extreme response and makes me wonder want else was said, if I'm honest.

I have never in umpteen years on MN read of a man trying to hug his wife and the wife flipping out, screaming in his face and punching a door. Never.

Me neither.

But, tbh, I've never heard of a man doing it before either...

Which is what makes.me think the OP may have been a little selective in her recounting of the event.

Mumsnet double standards again in full swing.
Whilst i personally agree that his response seems very strange, most of those that are generally saying LTB would be stating (if the genders were reversed) that it’s controlling abuse over her body. He would most certainly be accused of being one step away from leading to being a rapist and that ‘No means No’

I sort of agree with this post, but it doesn't take into account the completely different dynamics about women's consent vs male consent.

This isn't a double standard, it's just a fact. If a man 'forces' a woman to have a cuddle she doesn't want, he can do that by brute force in a way that doesn't work the other way around. And no woman would jump up, scream in his face and then punch a door. The OP's DP wasn't in any physical danger as he could easily overpower her.

She thought he was joking, and stopped when she realised he wasn't. It was a simple and (I assume) one off misunderstanding that didn't warrant a violent reaction. If he's so concerned about boundaries and body autonomy why can't he communicate this calmly and like a grown up - why does he have to punch a door?

I sort of agree with this post, but it doesn't take into account the completely different dynamics about women's consent vs male consent.

I disagree with this because I think you're mistakenly merging consent and risk.

It is true that a woman is almost always at higher risk, and if she does not consent, she's fully aware that she's still at risk in a way that men seldom are.

But that's about risk, and not the importance of consent. The need for consent, whether or not the risk is high or low, remains the same.

A different comparison might make this easier to understand.

If a pregnant woman does not want a random woman on the train stroking her belly, she has every right to withdraw her consent. The reality is that the risk to her is low but that doesn't negate her 100% right to complete bodily autonomy.

It's the same in the OP's example.

I'm not saying his reaction is reasonable. Nor am I saying he's necessarily a totally innocent in here. There may well be a lot more going on. But, he does have the right to have his request NOT to be cuddled to be 100%, and immediately, respected.

a pregnant woman does not want a random woman on the train stroking her belly, she has every right to withdraw her consent.

And this is comparable to a wife cuddling her dh on the sofa?

The reaching going on on this thread by some is laughable.

And getting angry if your dh so much as touches your hand without your consent as a pp suggests is just not normal or rational behaviour. How awful to be in such a relationship.

Are you lot seriously saying that the op should ask “may I please cuddle you?” whenever she touches her partner?
And that if she misreads his not wanting a hug he is justified to scream in her face and punch a door?

Incredible.

Both at fault, but mainly him as he has some issues underlying his OTT behaviour. You should be respecting when someone doesn't want a cuddle when really, after realising it was not a joke, you still had a go about it after, it was a bad move. However, his reaction was disproportionate and if he's a person who will only cuddle when he feels like it, that can can be miserable for a partner who likes cuddling. It shows he's incompatible with your requirements and he's demonstrated how inflexible he is on that. So you know disappointment lies ahead, you are not on the same page with showing affection. Why tie yourself up in knots adapting to his coldness when you could be finding someone warm and loving instead.

Are you purposefully misunderstanding so that you can be outraged about Woke Going Too Far or something similar?

She cuddled him. He said no. She continued to cuddle him. He pushed her off. She then whined that she "just wanted a cuddle" and he got angry.

No one is saying she has to ask for permission in advance. Nor is anyone suggesting that him going ballistic is okay. And certainly, the dynamic here appears to be off and he doesn't exactly sound like a prince.

But none of that negates the fact that everyone has the right not to be touched.

The hand example was me, and in context, it was pretty clear that I was making the point that unwanted physical contact is not okay. Yes, I'd be fine with DH taking my hand randomly in a way I would not be with a stranger. But at the same time, if I then removed my hand, I'd be furious if he continue to try and hold it or stroke it once I'd made it clear I didn't want it to be touched.

Is it, aye?

So it's my job to work out why I don't want someone intruding on my space when I have said no a number of times? And then seek help for reacting to that, even when its probably not the first time my boundaries have been crossed, even by the Ops recollection.

How about, it's my fucking space and my right to decide who enters it and when.

And to the generic 'ohhhhhh all these men infiltrating mumsnet and ignore them cos their opinion is not agreeing with mine', either I have absolutely played the long game for the Last 15 years membership of mumsnet, just for this moment to disagree witb some random stranger on a post that I have no skin in the game with, or it's just possible that a female (from birth) has a different opinion than you and you do not speak for an entire gender.

GingerIsBest

I am not “misunderstanding” anything. What does “woke” have to do with anything?

I think the issue here is that you are trying to make it about a persons “consent to be touched” in turn minimising a mans completely bonkers and aggressive overreaction to his wife hugging him.

You are comparing a woman hugging her dh to a man giving a woman unwanted sexual attention or a random stranger stroking a pregnant woman’s belly on a train.

Excusing behaviour like this which could end up escalating further if op does something her dh doesn’t like is quite frankly dangerous and quite revolting.

But if you are the kind of person who becomes “furious” when her dh touches her hand I guess your sympathy for the door-punching dh comes from a place of recognising yourself in him and his OTT and needlessly aggressive reactions?

I agree that people have the right to say don’t touch me. I don’t agree that hugging your partner and asking for some affection justifies them then screaming in your face and punching a door.

Stop trying to excuse his behaviour. It is irresponsible.

He has said this morning
I don't show him enough affection
I'm not affectionate enough and that's the issue
I'm honestly so confused
I try and show affection and he says no cuddles
Yet says I'm not affectionate enough
It messes with my head
Then he apologised and said he has been stressed with work

We don't really argue
Unless it's about money or affection
It's all on his terms
Monday he cuddled me and it was lovely
Why wouldn't I think I was okay to cuddle him?
We have been together over 3 years

The punching the door is extreme - and sounds like he was massively frustrated with you.

I'd be pissed off if someone cuddled me and wouldn't get off when I told them to.

I just cuddled him and he said no I don't want a cuddle ,I thought he was joking so didn't move.
Then he said again no I don't want a cuddle
So I got off a bit annoyed saying bloody hell I just wanted a cuddle

You invaded his space, didn't move when he said 'No'. And when he repeated 'No' you got annoyed and minimised the fact that he didn't want cuddling at that time.

He was very clear that he didn't want you snuggling up to him at that point. And he's clearly told you this morning He said it's not about the cuddle
You didn't listen when I said no.

Maybe you need to listen to what people are actually telling you.

I agree that people have the right to say don’t touch me. I don’t agree that hugging your partner and asking for some affection justifies them then screaming in your face and punching a door.

Stop trying to excuse his behaviour. It is irresponsible.

I have said, repeatedly, that his behaviour is not okay. Doesn't mean her behaviour is okay either.

OP, based on your update, this is really not a healthy relationship. he is clearly not very nice to you, sends mixed signals etc. It might be worth considering whether or not it is worth continuing or if there is value in therapy together or apart. do you have children? because if not, I'd be inclined to say move on. It's not worth the effort of trying to fix.

We don't really argue
Unless it's about money or affection

Oh just little things then 😳

My abusive ex started similarly and used to punch things, then he punched me. Walk away while you still can.

I'd walk away tbh. It sounds like affection is on his terms, that isn't what you want and punching walls is not on.

My abusive ex started similarly and used to punch things, then he punched me. Walk away while you still can

Exactly this. Some People are spectacularly missing the massive red flags in this situation and potentially making someone suffering from abuse feel like she’s in the wrong.

As I said, it’s dangerous.

This really doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. He's angry and aggressive. But you also sound needy and weird. This stood out for me:

It's all on his terms
Monday he cuddled me and it was lovely
Why wouldn't I think I was okay to cuddle him?

The reality is that cuddling is one of those things where the person who doesn't want it gets veto. So if you always want cuddles but he only sometimes wants cuddles, then he is going to be the one who decides. Now, in a healthy relationship, he might see that you need and want more cuddles and so he'd accommodate that more than he perhaps ideally wants, but at the end of the day, if he doesn't want cuddles he doesn't want cuddles.

And if that doesn't work for you, you have every right to say that this relationship isn't right for you and doesn't meet your needs so you're going to end it.

He has said this morning
I don't show him enough affection
I'm not affectionate enough and that's the issue

I think he wants more sex not cuddles.

No means no and he’s not unreasonable to say no but punching a door is ott and scary. I’m astonished that you want to cuddle him tbh.

It sounds like he may have the ick and even if you shagged him every waking moment, he’d still be abusive. (Punching a door is definitely abusive )

@JadziaD needy and weird for cuddling my partner ?
Yeah sure

I would say no meant no and you should've got off. It's a no whether it's coming from a male or female.

I don't condone hitting a door and think that's too far, he needs to address that. But how many times as he said no and you've kept pushing?

Weird and needy for not understanding that cuddling today doesn't mean someone would want to cuddle tomorrow. Also for getting upset when he said no and snapping at him.

It's fine. Lots of people want more cuddles and it's perfectly reasonable to be one of those people. He also sounds like he's not very nice when he's saying no to you. two excellent reasons why perhaps this relationship is not a good one.

Ask him to clarify what showing affection means to him? Is it cuddling, kissing, holding hands, touching, or does he just mean sex? If its all about the sex for him then he will have a lifelong problem with most women as the latter doesn't usually happen before the prior stages are met.

Yes you did something wrong. He said no, he told you not to cuddle , you went on and continued.

No his reaction wasn't good. But if my partner physically put his hands on me cuddle or not after I said no, then honestly I am going to react.

You need to apologise and consider do you not listen?

And if course he shows affection on his terms, that's how it works we all have autonomy. Do you not really understand this?

The rest of the context depends on the answer to the above. His behaviour could be outrageous or be reactive to you not respecting his boundaries.

You don't sound like you understand boundaries.