Dh won’t take accountability

[Marshmallowandcustard]

Dh and I seem to row a lot these days (been together 25yrs).

He is stressed as he hates work. (Think huge corporate job where he’s very high up the ladder). He comes home and doesn’t communicate other than by moaning about everything and everyone. Does nothing in the house. I dish up dinner and he always has something to say about it such as ‘ffs that’s too much on my plate’ or ‘it’s not my fave’ or ‘bit overdone/underdone/too much chilli’ blah blah. He then sits on sofa and falls asleep. When he wakes he starts snapping at me. This is consistent. Then he complains I’m not in the mood for sex when we go to bed.

Weekends are similar. But we have more awake time whereby he moans about everything, swears at the dog etc. I try and encourage him to go for a bike ride to clear his head or play golf. He always makes excuses as he says he cba. So I exercise alone.

We often go to the local pub for dinner or a drink with friends. Every time we go he complains how I’m too friendly to people and how he cba to talk to people. (He will literally blank people, leave them standing with their arm out to shake hands kind of thing). I don’t think I’m too friendly. I love conversation and I’m incredibly sociable.
When we come home, he then tells me someone (different each time) has been coming onto me and he’s not happy and he expects me not to put him in that position next time and therefore not speak to that man next time we see him!! We’ve always got our teens with us and I’ve never flirted and wouldn’t anyway.
I’ve got a lot of friends whom I adore and I know like me, although I still feel I lack confidence as don’t feel good enough for them.

This weekend he randomly told me I’m an embarrassment. I’ve no idea why other than apparently I’m overly friendly. This was said BEFORE going out with friends for lunch. All I can think is that he was making me feel conscious of how chatty I am in order to silence me before going out.

Ive become numb as just don’t know how to react. I don’t actually react, I ignore every negative comment but that’s now meaning there’s not much left to actually acknowledge.

He played golf yesterday and came home and made me a cuppa. He’s now told me he’s tried to ‘make up’ but feels I’m ignoring him. I’m not. I’m just ignoring the bad behaviour. Other than that I’m chatty.

AIBU to want accountability, not a cup of tea?

Hes text me from work today reiterating he’s tried. I’ve told him I need accountability and he’s refusing.

I don’t know what to do. He’s impossible to communicate with.

What you are describing is domestic abuse. He would probably deny this because he doesn't hit you.

Yet the damage is just the same. Breaking you down as a person is as damaging as breaking your bones.

You've been putting up with his behaviour for so long that you are not recognising it for what it is.

A classic aspect of this (which you have described) is that you are changing your behaviours in order to manage his abuse. e.g. Ignoring the behaviour seems to defuse it for a while so I’m taking that tact now. This also keeps me calmer

You might recognise some of the behaviours highlighted in The Freedom Programme. Also check out Lundy Bancroft "Why Does He Do That". (Spoiler alert: because he can.)

And remember you are not alone. So many women feel trapped in these abusive relationships because they have been conditioned by their abusive husbands to believe it's their fault, and that they are incapable of surviving without the abusive husband. This is utter bullshit, but it's hard to see while you're still stuck in the thick of it.

Classic abusive arsehole.

He won’t change. Time to plan your exit (or his!).

It doesn't matter what he thinks, of course he will deny doing anything wrong, he is perfectly happy as he is. I do think that this is one of those times where you will have to leave him if you want change in your life. let him be rude/aggressive when you leave, he's like that already so it's not as if you're not used to it.

Also, I wonder how many of your friends only stay as friends because they like you and not him? How could anyone actually like him, given your description of his behaviour upthread? You might be surprised at the support when/if you instigate a split.

The more you write about him the worse it gets.

He whispers 'fuck off' and sticks his fingers up at you behind your back?

Your children may appear well rounded but they are being conditioned to accept abusive behaviour.
You need to give them that final lesson: that no-one has to put up with abusive behaviour. No matter what the 'excuse' is.

He has to go.

It’s the fact he can kick off over absolutely nothing and then keep on going trying to push my buttons. And then the next day, try and act as if nothing happened. And then turn it on me for not being ok with that.

This thread is highlighting that he does change my behaviour in terms of I’m known to be always laughing and smiling but he can very easily make me feel vulnerable and small. I hate that this happens

OP, I know that everyone hates armchair diagnosis on MN and broadly, I agree. BUT... I would suggest that a lot of what you are talking about is classic narcissistic behaviour (I'm not saying he's a full blown narcissist, as not only am I not qualified, there's only a small snapshot on here).

I'm also quite interested in the fact that you say that you're refusing to suck up to him and that is escalating the behaviour, ditto at work.

That makes complete sense - if for years he has been able to control you (and others - narcissistic bosses can be the absolute WORST) and that is starting to change, he will be spiralling down. Narcissistic rage will eventually become a narcissistic collapse.

Gaslighting, DARVO, refusal (inability) to take accountability or responsibility, belittling, accusatory behaviour designed to limit your interactions with others etc are all pretty classic.

Unfortunately, the single most significant aspect of narcissism is a complete inability to take responsibility and a total lack of empathy. This makes getting someone who has this sort of behaviour to reflect, and change, almost impossible.

I didn't see this when I typed my first response.

Very very classic too.

In the modern world, a particularly instructive version because it's in black and white is when they send a stream of emails/messages about how awful you are etc etc etc, then the next day act as if nothing happened or even send you a message saying how grateful they are for x or y. When you see it in black and white it suddenly becomes so much more obvious.

I really do strongly suggest you reach out to Women's Aid. They are hugely knowledgeable about these behaviours and can help signpost you towards a better future. It is also helpful to speak to someone who can reassure you that you're not going mad.

Because that's the other thing, right? You start to doubt yourself because you've been told for years that it's not him, it's you.

This is classic gaslighting and coercive and controlling behaviour.

Is he Donald Trump?

You need to split up with him. Do you not realise the damage this is doing to your DC ?

I wonder if my experience would help.

Very long marriage, but now divorcing.

Originally, I thought my husband was a good kind person. But there were some unresolved issues which kept recurring. Basically I gave into him and did things the way he wanted. I learned to never criticise him. He came and went as he pleased and any time my opinion was different to him, he told me I was the one at fault, the one who was too sensitive, the impossible one. He eventually had me believing him.

Then the menopause came and my ‘mug’ setting dialled down to zero. I started setting boundaries, I stopped doing a lot of things with him, because he either took over entirely and changed everything. Or he would always make me feel a failure because I wasn’t behaving exactly like him, or he would criticise me. I didn’t want to go to the pub with him either because drinking made him more unpredictable.

So he ended up doubling down to make me be more like the ‘old me’, the one he could bully and who would never argue back. I still rarely argued and would grey rock, I stayed pleasant and agreeable, but just refused to things I had previously done and had never enjoyed doing. (Eg socialising, hosting etc), or left him to organise and sort stuff himself. Ie if hosting his (large) family/friends for a rugby watching weekend - I left him to make beds, sort meals. I would be present and agreeable. If they were my friends/family or joint friends then I would do all the sorting out like I had always done.

He didn’t like this new me who quietly stood her own ground. He became more verbally agressive, very unpredictable with his anger and treated me as unsatisfactory junior employee.

So perhaps this increased miserable behaviour of your husband is like his past behaviour, but on steroids, because you have put in place boundaries and you won’t be bullied anymore?

For me it only had one outcome.

In the meantime, you should keep a diary and write down all the cruel stuff he says and does. Include your behaviour too. They have a way of rewriting history.

Maybe if you think it’s appropriate, ask him to see his GP or seek help for his bad temper and then you can show him the diary if he denies being a misery.

Best of luck and stick to your guns.

He won't change, he's been too well rewarded by his behaviour, which includes you putting up with it. You can't tell someone there's a problem, you have to make them experience it .. at this stage, leaving is probably the only way.

I left someone who frequently created strife. The peace was erie for a while, but now I love it! I never want to put up with that crap again

He is abusive and is already wrecking your mental health and probably that of your DC. They're already apologising for him "it's just his work stress..." - it's not good that they think that. They DO need to know his behaviour is not normal - and they'll learn that by you saying "no, this isn't OK, I won't be treated this way and nor will the DC". Otherwise they're going to choose partners just like him.

I'd start by contacting Women's Aid, reading Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that?" book.

Perhaps he is depressed?

could you have a day just you two to do something nice together and talk and ask him to communicate better and appreciate what you do for him etc.

They often tell me he’s grumpy due to stress or work and he can’t help it. I don’t want them to see it any other way.

By accepting it, you are setting them up to be treated like crap in relationships.
’He can’t help it’……..well he could if he wanted to, if he chose to.
25 years? It’s just who he is as a person.
You are so used to it, you don’t see how abusive he is.

@Imgoingtobefree - I’m sorry you suffered like that but well done on being strong. How did he react when you said it was over?

your story sounds carbon copy of mine. He’s always been wrong willed. I’ve always just gone along with it. But like you, menopause arrived along with self reflection and a sense of wanting to be more authentic me! So I’ve started not going along with his moods. Not arguing them, just not rewarding them. I’ve tried arguing in the past, but he ties me in knots and I always end up apologising for arguing. The last few months, I’ve just not reacted. His rage increases. But I’ve stayed calm. I just don’t want to let myself down constantly.

I'd say thank your lucky stars he hasn't retired yet-at least you currently get a break from his abuse when he is at work.

Because that's what this is OP: it's abuse. And no decent counsellor would be prepared to hold joint sessions with you as this goes far beyond a fixable issue. You are his punching bag: he takes all his frustrations with world out on you. He belittles you, he constantly criticises you and he gaslights you.

Nothing you do will ever be right because you are locked in an impossible game that you will never win, and as his moods get worse and your friends and family stop interacting with you two as much (as they won't want to put up with his behaviour) your world will get smaller and smaller. And you will start to believe him when he says you're useless or a flirt or whatever else. And then it will be nigh on impossible to leave.

@Marshmallowandcustard I'm married to your husband (not literally) - successful in his creative field, started off as a very interesting guy, far less successful and not like living with Victor meldrew on steroids. He just got more and more controlling and angry as he got older (he's 60 this year) - I feel like a whipping post some of the time and journeys in car involve tons of shouting etc- changed for me about 7 years ago when I discovered quite by chance he had some kind of emotional affair about 10 years before that - found a load of songs and poems he had written about it - in the process of then snooping further I discovered a virtually every day hard core porn habit (he doesn't know I know the porn) but we did have a lot of discussions about the emotional affair- I changed my attitude totally- no longer put up with shit but for me it kind of killed things. I haven't left as I'm not in a great position to do so as we work together and don't own a house but believe me if that lottery win happens I'm off .

In the meantime, you should keep a diary and write down all the cruel stuff he says and does. Include your behaviour too. They have a way of rewriting history.

This is bloody good advice. For anyone in a questionable relationship.

It makes you feel more in control.

This is awful OP and your teen DDs are witnessing it, even if you think they aren't affected. You sound lovely and he sounds like a nasty bully.

He doesn’t like you very much.
Think about the role models you are setting for your children.
Do you want them to end up in a relationship like yours?

I read somewhere that a lot of narcissistic people land up alone eventually because over time, the mask slips and the victims leave. Not always, of course, but you can see why.

I am aware of a situation where the person whose behaviour is like your DH has genuinely become hugely depressed. I don't for one second think he's faking it. BUT... unfortunately, it's very obvious that this depression is the natural result of his behaviour causing him to eventually lose everything.

Even at work, he wasn't hugely successful like your DH so that is different. But he did get away with a lot for a very long time. He is a covert narcissist who is the permanent victim. For years, I couldn't work out why he wasn't fired - I'd hear stories and even hearing HIS version I'd think, "that can't be right?". But at the time, I didn't realise or know how manipulative, and successful at it, narcissists can be. Now I suspect he did a very very good job of manipulating colleagues and bosses.

Inevitably though, it got too bad and he "resigned". But he can't get a new job because his references are not good enough. which has caused further spiralling into depression and helplessness.

I tell you this to warn you. The feeling of responsibility and guilt can be huge if you try to extricate yourself from this type of personality. And it sounds like he's already successfully manipulating the DC to feel sorry for him and excuse shitty behaviour as a result.

This is so dangerous for your children OP. They are now completely unable to recognise abusive behaviour, which raises the likelihood that they too will accept being in abusive relationships when they are older. You MUST help them to understand that your husband's behaviour is abusive and unacceptable, otherwise they'll be trotting out the same excuses with their partners- "oh they're just tired/ stressed, it was my fault really". I know it is hard to accept that you are damaging your children, but please, for their sakes, do what is right for them as well as for yourself. When they are older they'll not thank you for having to grow up in a home where they've had to walk on eggshells.

Id encourage you to go to counselling by yourself but to someone who does relationship counselling. I did this and it helped me see where my boundaries were, what I wanted etc. I also think it's helpful to start confiding in a close friend, telling them you are not fully happy etc - they may also help you see things more clearly. He sounds unhappy and unpleasant. Hard to know which came first and whether anything can change. However this doesn't have to be your long term future. Imagine a life where you can chat to a male friend and it's not a problem or your can air your point of view and you're not belitted and put down. You might not want to leave now, but you can start planning what you want from your life.