March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

The rock the boat analogy is the best description of living/coping with narc lunatics

Yes. It describes my awful older sister exactly. Everything, always, has to revolve round her and her made-up ailments, for which she has to go to bed.

She then demands everyone's attention - relatives, friends.............I remember one ailment she claimed she had, where she said she couldn't get out of bed.
She even had her SIL rolling her on to plastic sheets lined with towels, so that she could pee. Fuck that shit.

Thank goodness I went NC with her three years ago.

Does anyone know what happens to the Golden Child when the narcissist dies?

Test

have changed my name for this post, as I’ve been a long time user of MN and don’t want to be outed.

have been a long time lurker on this thread and have learned so much reading others experiences as I can relate to them all. I’ve got to the point on my life where I have had enough of carrying around the anger towards my M and really want to get it off my chest. Since I had my son 11 years ago a light bulb went off about how awful my M has always treated me, and just how shit of a mum she has been to me. I am the eldest girl and definitely the scapegoat. There’s so many instances where it has been clear that she is just a nasty and controlling person, she would repeatedly shame me when I was a kid and I never felt good enough, she would always make jokes with my siblings at my expense and lots of time I remember running into my room and crying for her to tell
me not to be so sensitive because it was only a joke. As an adult her controlling and nasty behaviour has continued, like after I’d had my son and she basically bought me loads of kitchens and bathroom stuff because mine were ‘so terrible’ she had to replace them, the occasions where we have had arguments over whether or not I should be smacking my kids, (I would never but she used to smack me growing up) and constantly tells me whenever my kids play up it’s because I don’t smack them, she never comes to see me and if she does she spends the whole time complaining that she rather be at home, she is always putting me down around my husband, constantly telling him she feels sorry for him for being with me. When I got engaged she didn’t say congratulations, she just repeatedly asked if my hubby really wanted to marry me or did I force him, and For my wedding she did not have any involvement, refused to help me with anything and refused to come and try dresses but would use the planning as an excuse for her feeling overwhelmed. She booked a holiday at the time of my son’s christening and accused me of ‘holding her back’ when I said I was upset she wouldn’t be there. When I started working she moaned that the childcare I’d found was too expensive and that I should find something cheaper and better, she offered to do it for us and did it for about 2 weeks but then said she wasn’t doing it anymore as it was too much and so I had to beg the childcare option to look after my kids.

Phew (for now) as you will all know there is SO much more.

But what bought things to light was a recent family event that her ex who physically abused her and made all our lives hell for years came along and lots of things came up. I was terrified and felt frozen in fear while he tried to speak to me and lots of painful memories came back that I was not prepared for. After the event my siblings and M pretty much told me to get over it and didn’t understand why I was still hurt by what happened, M especially shouted at me telling me to move on and blamed me for holding on to stuff. As always I felt shut down and silenced by her and my siblings and I’m frustrated that I didn’t say what I felt, it felt like a losing battle to get any of points accross and I was made to feel pathetic and getting upset over nothing. I am waiting for trauma therapy and hoped doing that would help me process some of my trauma and build assertiveness to confront my family but it hasn’t happened and I fuming, I simply can’t be around any of them right now and have kept my distance.

Any advice would be welcome.

So sorry that is so long. Thanks for reading.

@StrawberryTeddybear they will not change, we all hope our families will change, be reasonable, listen to how we feel. They won't because they don't want to and don't care.
Do not confront or explain to them, I did and I felt worse/ridiculous after. Just quietly withdraw. You are not too sensitive, they are just rude, ignorant people who enjoy scapegoating you. It isn't your fault.
If they phone don't pick up, if you do just say you are busy and will call back, then don't.
You don't need to get over it, you need to get AWAY from it.
It takes practice, avoid conflict you won't win, cold turkey is best, start reading some of the books recommended and get counseling. Xx

@Goldenmario your mum is looking to offload her 24 year old kitchen aid onto you 😂 and will expect you to be grateful. She wants the new one. If she really wanted to get you something she would ask you what you really wanted/needed.
Remember you are not dealing with a normal person or friend, you are dealing with a narc who wants to win. Just don't engage with it.
When I was low contact for years, the minute my mum started down this track I would say 'gotta go, dog just sicked up on carpet' and hung up the phone.

@StrawberryTeddybear sadly the others are right it is not changing and they are not changing. When I think of what I was put through and made the laughing stock and I had done nothing on them. I actually feel so sad for myself as a child because I never knew why they treated me that way and now as an adult I feel sick knowing it was abuse.

@Genuineweddingone I feel this. As a child I did not understand, but thought I must be bad somehow. Later, for years, I tried to put things right. This of course did not work. Finally I cut ties and it's the only way to achieve peace.

@StrawberryTeddybear Somehow you have to accept, or just live with knowing that justice will not be served. This is difficult, but it is also freeing and a lot less exhausting than trying to get them to see you over and over again without any success. This drained me a lot more. You are emotionally tied to them, despite the poor treatment, but you can break free.

She’s actually already tried that with the kitchen aid and various other things she doesn’t want or need any more. She gets quite offended when we don’t accept her used stuff and then annoyed that she has to deal with disposal of said used stuff.

But in this case I know she wants to buy me something and I think it’s about control. I haven’t called on her wisdom in the planning of my kitchen and she therefore needs to insert herself into it.

Do not let her buy you anything for the kitchen. Do not engage further with her because what she wants is a response.

My mother always does this, decides I need things she no longer needs and tries to leave them in my house - or did when she was allowed into it. It is control and it is so they can tell people they did xyz for you and bought xyz. I mean if you were to listen to her she practically raised my child on my behalf - ye know, from a different home in a different county and while I was paying for childcare but the very odd time she did have him she would make all her calls and facetimes so people could see him in her house therefore showing she ALWAYS had him. It is very annoying because I am a working single parent whose biggest thing is that I raise him by myself as I am very proud of that fact. Fucking glory hunters is all they are.

Don't get swayed, you are spot on. This is about control and guilt (for you).

I thankfully haven't lived near my parents for a very long time, but my brother lives close. When he goes on hols with his family and the parents have been feeding the cat they very generously fill his fridge before he gets back. It makes me sick to my stomach. There are a ton of examples. A narc does not feel true connection to other humans, so they use giving to stay close, control and guilt trip.

Narcs cause so much confusion around gifts. My mother once asked me 'do you want this veg cutting machine from the TV for your birthday?' - I said no, I don't need or want one. Guess what I received?

Another time I received a 'birthday card' that was still in a plastic wrapper with no message in it. It was a round birthday too and it really hurt me. But another time they would gift you an envelope with like £500 out of nowhere without an occasion and you just don't understand what's happening.

It's all control. One time they are anxious you aren't under enough control, so they appear generous to keep you close. Another time they are raging because you haven't complied with something and they use gifts (or the lack thereof, or shitty gifts) to hurt you.

Gifts too should come with ribbons, not strings and your mother’s gifts are anything but. Narcissistic people can end do use gifts to control others. Alternatively they can and do gift items they no longer want and expect you to be grateful for their unwanted items.

Alternatively they can and do gift items they no longer want and expect you to be grateful for their unwanted items

Ugh, don't they just.
I'm so glad I'm NC with my sister. At least I don't have to take her horrible "gifts" to the charity shop now.

though I am not certain my M is a narcissist, she defo has narcissistic traits. Her mum is definitely one and I think my M has some traits from her but she would never say she was like her mum. In terms of gifts they have always been few and far between growing up. Christmas and sometimes birthdays were just normal days. Never had a party or celebration with friends until I was grown up enough the organise it. Yet I never questioned it, I always just though mum isn’t I to birthdays, but could never imagine letting my kids birthday come and go like a normal day, it’s such a punishment. Some years she’ll decide to give my kids some money and other years she asks them what they want but never bother buying anything, thankfully my kids never follow up and ask.

My mother gives out yards (irish saying i think lol) about what i do and spend on my son for birthdays because it is a hangover from my childhood where my birthdays seemed insignificant to her, almost actually an encumberance. Like a poster above my birthday cards were 'oh I didnt have time to write it but here it is' still wrapped in its plastic casing. Always minimised and then when I went for an adhd diagnosis I was told 'well she learned to walk at a year old and we all clapped and cheered for her as parents/aunts etc which is when she became an attention seeker'.
The last birthday party I had I was 10. I never asked for nor wanted an 18th or 21st and my wedding I invited on 26 people (although she invited all her friends and people I did not know to the after party so really my wedding was not actually all about me at all now i recall it) and I absolutely hate attention. But lets never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

@SilkyBlouse LC or NC was my choice. One day I simply had nothing to say anymore. I was done trying. What followed was a horrendous year because of the guilt and because I finally worked through the first 18 years of my life. It's not NC that was hard. It's getting to grips with the past, my lost life, how it messed me up and to free myself from panic attacks and depression.

I get what you say about you waiting for your mother to die. I have the same thoughts. The same fear that she'll make it another 20+ years. I'm typing it for the first time, I feel like a bad human. I have never verbalised it even to myself. The thought still feels intrusive.

Oh wow I am thinking of my mothers death too these days. She is 77. She will probably live another 400 years just to spite me and my dread is the funeral. The thousand calls to go and the 'but shes your mother' etc. All I can think of is ok I cannot change the lies shes already told about me but it will be a relief to know no more can be conjured up. People do not realise what these people do to us. They dont see the harm, the pain. They dont want to. It is hard now grieving the mother I never had so I dont think mourning the death of her will even be as bad. It might be a relief. Thats the most horrible nasty thing I think I have ever said. I have not said it to friends etc but I have now said here what I sometimes think. It is a cruel and heartless thing to say but had she not done what she has done I would not have that feeling inside me. It is a horrible process to go through but it is a process we need to go through. I just wish I could go back in time and be born to someone else but I cant. I can however stop my child from seeing this and witnessing this.

@Genuineweddingone I hope this doesn't sound wicked, but I love this thread so much. People here actually feel safe to say this thing, you know which, it's kind of good to know others are thinking it too.

I have done so much grieving for the parents and the life I didn't have that I don't think their death will affect me much. It's kind of comforting to know that the worst is already over.

Completely agree @Twatalert I think I feel the same.

I went NC for 6 years. First year or so is hard with feelings of guilt/loneliness, although I have my own happy family, so for anyone thinking of doing this, that’s definitely normal and something you need to just work through. It’s basically grieving the family you didn’t have. For me, it happened because I had reached the end of my tether and something finally snapped. It was cutting her out or my mental health going. Then my Dad had a stroke in Jan 2020 (made an almost full recovery thankfully) and Mum wrote me this begging letter to come back. Like a fool I gave her another chance but over the last 4 years she’s gone back to how it was before, so I’ve had to go NC again and this time it’s definitely forever. I hoped the letter was her wanting a new start, especially after nearly losing Dad. However with Dad very ill, she purely wanted all her foot soldiers back in place to serve her if he left her alone. Dad is 10 years older than her.

Both times were my decision, just blocked calls/texts and immediately shut the door on her the one time she turned up. I’ve found totally not engaging works best as she’s got a very violent temper and is quite crazy. However she told my siblings I was screaming hysterical abuse at her on my driveway, when in reality the door was opened 2 inches and immediately shut without a single word, also because my daughter had a friend staying over that evening too. However this time round she’s not turned up yet (thank goodness) and it feels a lot easier as I’ve worked through a lot of the guilt & complicated feelings. Plus after she burnt all my childhood photos last time, I feel less guilty plus I know how happy I was when NC. Also having to do it again has proved I was right the first time. A ball of tight stress in my chest lifts when I go NC.

Told my siblings this is how it is, not interested in trying to battle or win sides, and if she tells them toxic lies about me it’s up to them what they believe. Luckily my sister is supportive and hates her too so that’s not a problem. Brother is the golden child so he’ll be more sympathetic to the vicious old viper, but he also says she’s crazy and his wife is supportive to us as she can’t bear my Mum.

I simply can’t sit and wait it out until my Mum shuffles off. She’s only 20 years older than me so could be tormenting me until I’m in my late 70s or until I die myself. Had 50 years of it already and that’s enough. My Dad is sweet but a total enabler and expects us to put up with it. My aunt pointed out they almost have a strange codependency and this was a lightbulb moment for me. Hadn’t seen it before and now it makes total sense. It’s almost like he needs to be dominated, controlled & bullied and forgives her everything. So although I’m a little sad I lose my Dad too, part of me feels completely let down by him so helps ease the guilt. My mother was very physically violent to me as a child and terrorised me as I’m older than my siblings so I had the first 10 years alone with her. Dad worked long hours. Dad’s admitted he knew she was violent to me, but didn’t know what to do. His inaction has caused a lot of hurt to our family. My sister has had addiction issues and a breakdown due to it too. I recommend trying NC to those who are at breaking point, but do expect the first year to be challenging. However after that, I finally had peace and found me. Only regret is giving her another chance.

Hello, I've been watching these threads for a couple of years and this is my first post. I am daughter and step-daughter to two people who I suspect are narcs or display some narc traits. I will try and describe a brief history and where I am now. When I was a baby my parents separated but I still had regular contact with my father and his family. Then my mum met and married my step dad when I was two and from then on I was calling him 'daddy' as well. She also changed my surname to his. As I grew older I continued calling both men 'daddy' to their faces, but when I was with my mum and step dad I would refer to my real dad and his parents by their first names as I knew my mum and step dad did not like me referring to them as grandma, daddy etc . The relationship with my real dad has always been good and his family gave me warmth and affection contrasting what I got from my mum and step dad. My mum has a few times referred to their love to me as 'sappy'. I have some nice memories of my mum and step dad but a therapist has told me it sounds like 'conditional love'. My relationship with my mum and step dad deteriorated when I got to my mid to late teens, getting a mind of my own, and I was always told all my traits deemed negative by them was from my dad (they would use his first name). After moving out before 20 I grew even closer to my dad, but my step dad seemed to distance himself further from me (he was very angry about me moving out following a disagreement). I have two half siblings who I remain close to but they still live at home and this makes things hard. Our relationship has never been close since I moved out and my partner is of the opinion she talks to me like i'm a distant relative not her daughter. After years of continuing to please my mum and step dad, conforming to their preferences, I finally decided to confront my mum last year about her insistence on calling my step dad 'dad' even though we barely have a relationship, and set the boundary that I will call my real dad 'dad' and my child will call him 'grandad'. I tried to ask her why it all started but not in a judgemental way, more inquisitive. Her response was that I have a short memory and 'after all he did for you'. They both have an entitlement that because my step dad 'took on a child' and rescued my mum from financial woes etc I should be grateful. I argued that it was her choice to have me and his choice to take on a child. I also argued that my own child owes me nothing but she disagreed with this. She then went on to tell me how upset they are that I keep them at arms length and only visit when I am in the area seeing other people. I could talk more on that too but I will say my mum makes minimal effort with me or my child. She then texted me essays about how selfish I am and she is so disappointed in the person I am now, just like 'x' (my dad).
I chose to go nc with her until yesterday. Its been 9 months. I have been dreaming a lot about her, her mother (my grandmother) is very ill in hospital but I have only learnt this through my half siblings, and to top it off I found out I was pregnant. So yesterday I phoned her and she answered. To keep this as brief as I can, the conversation did not end well, she clearly is still very hurt by me setting the boundary about my step dad and continued to refer to him as 'dad'. Near the end of the call she called me a nasty person and all about 'me'. Again, she made lots of negative references to my real dad and how much I am turning into him. In defence, gave her a few of my own opinions and I criticised her character too (rightly or wrongly I said her and my step dad are not nice people). I ended up telling her about the baby on whatsapp because she hung up on me after that. She has since replied saying 'I should move on from the past and perspectives', 'don't poke the bear and expect harmony', 'all you do is throw darts and look at negatives rather the positives, 'its such a shame, the call should have been about drawing a line under, move on and btw i'm having another baby'.
I am so confused today. I am questioning myself and whether I did indeed 'throw darts'. When I was younger I would have bowed down to this and agreed to move forwards, knowing the boundaries probably will continue to be broken and they will not accept any wrong doing-yet they are saying it is me doing that? She says I will not listen to her angle and I am selfish. I am sad because I know this is tough on my half siblings and they are caught up in it all. I am sad because I realise nc probably is the right direction now and this is meant to be a happy and exciting time with the baby. I am worried because my grandma is going to die soon and I will have to see them again at her funeral and this will be so difficult. Can anyone relate to this? I am sorry for the lengthy post any responses would be appreciated :)

Hi @Kinny03 i want to say I’m sorry for what you’re going through and what you have lived through. On the issue of you calling your stepfather “dad”, how utterly confusing and hurtful for you both as a child and as an adult. I think it’s fair to say that your interests were not being put first in this situation and that’s a difficult thing to accept. Your mother and step father thought this was a good idea, it made your stepfather feel better and your mother too. You mention that he “took you on”, did you always know and feel this? If so I can only imagine how damaging this would be to a young girl growing up, a young girl who is no longer with her more affectionate father. The selfishness shown by your mother and stepfather is staggering. Have you considered therapy to work through these issues?

That was so brave of you to tell your mother your feelings about being forced to refer to your stepfather as dad, wow, I’m very impressed at your strength. Your mother’s reaction is a typical narc reaction. The fact that she can’t fathom why this would have seriously affected you, combined with being made to feel grateful for what should be seen a basic care is disgusting. I can relate to being told that you only look for the “negative” etc, that’s easy for her to say isn’t it? It means she doesn’t have to look at any of her behaviour, it’s easier to blame you for the current state of your relationship. I can relate to this. My parents were emotionally and physically violent with me while growing up and, recently, while reading my old journals I read about a time I had an argument with my mother where I told her a few homes truths. She turned on me and said she was an excellent mother and I was always difficult. This was the start of my journey of acceptance. It started to enter my awareness that she is crazy and would never change. After trying to establish boundaries, maintain some sort of relationship, allow my kids to meet them in cafes etc, being very LC, recently I’ve had to go NC. This has been a 4 year journey of therapy, self reflection, meditation, journaling and I’m at the point where I’ve finally accepted they won’t change and I need to preserve my mental health.

I can relate to situation with your grandmother, sorry to hear this. I’m in a similar situation, although my grandmother isn’t dying she is very elderly and I dread the thoughts of the funeral and all it entails. Try your best to be civil and don’t engage in anything. Any negative comments just politely turn to leave etc.

”don’t poke the bear and expect harmony” wow, so don’t share any feelings (especially “negative” ones) and if you do you will face our wrath? That’s my reading of that and that’s messed up. I can relate though.

congratulations on your pregnancy, this should be an amazing time for. Do whatever you have to do for your mental and physical well-being and try to really understand that none of this is your fault.

Kinny

What junebugalice wrote.

Your mother has not changed in all the years since you were born. I can understand why you reached out to her but really and truly such toxic people like this are really not worth bothering with. You only did because you've received the Special Training to put yourself last with her first. Also FOG may have come into it (fear, obligation and guilt).

Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and always need a willing enabler to help them; that person here is her now H who is probably just as narcissistic if not more than she is.

Its not your fault she and her now husband are like this and you did not make them that way. You also probably remind her of your birth father, a man she has always hated. You need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Have also had a similar situation re relatives. Bypass these people like your mother and her hangers on/flying monkeys completely and contact the hospital where she is in directly. You are a relative and you can be told which ward she is on. If you can and do want to see your grandmother do so.

@Kinny03 I'm chipping in as one more voice of reason. It's plain and simple: you are not the problem. Your mother is projecting, massively. She's telling on herself with all the things she accuses you of.

Do not doubt yourself like that.

I can relate I'm afraid. I wanted NC with my mother, but I realised I have lost everything and everyone. She's controlling the narrative and I have decided to let her be and not work against it with any relative. My brother is lost too, but also because he's numb and an authentic relationship has not been possible with him since I was maybe 10.

If I feel I need to control my story towards any relative I just leave it. I cannot have them in my life and I say goodbye to them just for myself, like in my head. You need to make this cut in your head and if you bump into them you grey rock them. You simply do not engage. You'd be there for your grandmother, who you would be grieving. Everyone else needs to deal with their own business.

I find that if you can make this cut in your head your demeanour is automatically different. It's like people know I mean business and am no longer susceptible to them weaseling their way into my head to project their shit onto me and plant any seeds of doubt.