March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

I agree and definitely found no contact very beneficial. I had peace for the first time in my life. My mum is like a sadistic cat playing with a mouse. It’s not easy initially but the biggest mistake I ever made was giving them another chance. I definitely grieve the mother I should have had, but do not miss her. I suppose there is a sadness with NC that you’ve finally realised there’s no hope of improvement. But that’s also a release in a way I guess. So many conflicting feelings and sadly parents like this seem more common than I first thought.

@SkylarkDay You have a very good handle on your situation.
NC is the only way, block, ignore, dont negotiate, dont open the door if she turns up, dont be guilted, dominated and bullied.
I didnt go the counselling route as tbh once I cut my mum out my life, my anxiety and anger faded. I prefer to look forward not back. I cant change the past, I dont need to understand why she was such an abusive mother, as an adult I know it wasnt my fault.

@binkie163 thanks for your reply. Yes you may well be right. I managed before without counselling and felt the peace & all the anxiety go with NC. Like you say, I may just be better looking forward than backwards, that does make sense to me. It all just feels a bit raw again at the moment. Xx

Can I have a 'wail' please?

It is the 2nd anniversary of my Mother's death. I called her husband - now 89 -
to say 'Hello' to him as I expected he'd be feeling a bit low too.

I was told he was my Dad till I was 16 - sent to school in his name & only found out it was a lie when I got my birth cert for my 1st passport - my Mother had lied on my birth cert too by claiming to be married to bio Dad when she was already married to 'my Dad' - her husband. She'd left her husband 'my Dad' to be with my bio Dad. When that hadn't worked she'd returned with me. 'Dad' took me on but she never allowed him to adopt me & I was always treated very differently to my older (half, I discovered!) Brother who was the Golden Child.

Anyway, I had a pretty miserable childhood. My Mother was a Narcissist (see altering legal docs if it didn't suit her, & if you disagreed with her she threatened to call the Police - & did once!). I don't know how she wasn't sectioned tbh. But she was very very clever at hiding things & I was her Scapegoat & punchbag.

I really regret calling him now. Conversation got onto fact that no-one contacts me (not 'Dad' though tbf he is 89 & is just obsessed with his tablets & football) nor my half brother nor any wider family. This is because I am a survivor of CSA (in the family). My Mother both ignored this (officially) & semi promoted it (unofficially). I reported it to the Police when I was early 20's. Pointless as they were hopeless. The only thing it did was cause a HUGE family schism (they did Interviews) & even those who vaguely talked to me then stopped completely.

Point of this long post was that 'Dad' remarked, during the brief call:
'thing is you didn't even get on with Mum did you, so why on earth do you think we'd keep in touch?' (I'd mentioned that I had children as well as my Brother)

How can it still have the power to leave me shaking and crying after all this time.
She's dead. I've had therapy. They don't matter. But it STILL HURTS.

If you've read this far, thank you. I just needed to 'say' somewhere as I've no one to talk to & can't call a 'survivors' support line as my (older) are home today.

@StripeyChina I'm so sorry to hear that you are hurting over the things that were done to you.

Thank you @Sweetpea1532 sorry for extended wail just feel really low today.
There is not 1 person I am related to who keeps in touch with me or my kids.
It's lonely (for them especially). But then when I have a convo like today & realise how bad it is then lonliness is the better option.

@StripeyChina
Well what disgusting remarks. I would be beyond hurt and raging as well.
You deserved so much better and it is not your fault you didn't get it. Wail away if it helps then shake the dust off your feet and leave them all behind. They don't deserve you x

Oh @StripeyChina that's hard, I'm sorry for what you're going through. Does it help at all to think "narcs are going to do what narcs are going to do"? In other words, it isn't about you, they're so self centered they can't think about the feelings of people they should care about.
I do wonder what made you send him a message? Did you think it would make him feel better? Did you feel you "should"? Why, if so? Perhaps read up on Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG). It makes us do all kinds of things that aren't logical (when you consider how they treated us) and that we subsequently regret, as we do these things for those people who don't deserve the steam off our p!ss. Sympathies.

@StripeyChina
It hurts because we grew up with all the injuries, scars and stains on us. It's shit. You are shaking due to the adrenaline response, you are crying because it has triggered deep pain in you.
You did a kind gesture to call your 'dad' and no good deed goes unpunished. It has however done you a favour in now knowing you never have to do that again. People like that will never be reliable support, they can't give you what you need emotionally. Your kids do not need toxic family, they need you to show them resilience, support and love [you don't mention partner] loneliness/abandonment is a part of dysfunctional families whether you are on the outside or enmeshed.
We have all at one time hoped things will be better, they will understand/change, they don't. Only we can change and the best way is to say NO MORE, draw a line and move forward free of the emotional baggage and pain of a toxic family. You can't get water from a dry well xx

have a lot going on at the moment and need some advice - I just found out the lump I have had in my neck for the last 6 months is a tumour.
I lost my dad to cancer in February so I’m not coping too well.
My sister who lives locally since finding out the bad news is constantly asking me to meet up, plan days, go for lunch, get our nails done, lashes done etc. She wants to spend every second she has off work with me. I get one day a week where I have an entire 6 hours to myself when I’m off work & DD is in school. I like being alone, she always needs to be around people.
I agreed to meet my sister on Friday & she wants me to put DD in after school club so I don’t have to rush back. I said I’m not doing that because she’s getting over a flu & it’s not fair.
I’m really tired at the moment & have constant headaches. I’m struggling to keep up with everything & I feel like my sister is putting additional pressure on me to spend time with her at every given opportunity.
We’ve gone from hardly talking since dad died to me feeling a bit smothered. I know she’s only trying to help but she has no children & doesn’t seem to understand why I can’t always meet up. I have a job, a child & I live out in the sticks. She’s making me feel guilty about having to leave on Friday to pick DD up.

@JellyWellyBoots if ever there was a time to do only what you want and reduce stress/pressure it is now. Start saying NO.

Summer 2022 my husband had a lump on his neck, it was also in his throat and lymph. It was cancer. All his family have had cancer. He is through treatment and cancer free. It was what tipped me to go NC with my narc mum and rest of family. I didn't have the time or strength to deal with their shit and my husbands diagnosis, we were exhausted and some days scared.

Your sister being extremely selfish your energy and focus must be you. If you need help you will ask her, you need to be in a good place to start treatment, while being brave in front of your daughter. If your sister can't or won't understand that then you will have to spell it out or withdraw from her.

Sending you love x

@binkie163 I'm so sorry to hear that, but excellent news that he came out the other end!
On the front some would argue she's being thoughtful, but there is that whole backstory that I've only shared on here.

I'm finding it exhausting, I spent last Friday with her. She sent me her work rota & said she wants to spend every day off with me. She literally TOLD me to put DD in after school club so she could spend more time with me. Then when I said no she did the funny 'oh it's ok I just wanted to spend time with my sister but it's ok'.
Sunday she text me mid afternoon saying the weathers lovely let's go for a late lunch, and it was a lovely idea of course but if you are a parent with a full week of work/school & all the rest it's simply not realistic to drop everything and go. She constantly wants to go out for dinner. I'm so fucking tired at the moment I just want to stay in all the time.
I'm not entirely sure what she is doing as this is completely not like her.
The last thing I need is the extra pressure of keeping her happy & making sure I meet with her on all the days she says. I love my sister I do but I can only spend so much time with her. She can be really overwhelming.

@JellyWellyBoots that is so difficult.. If would be wonderful if your sister could only realise that you want to spend time with your daughter, instead of putting her in after care...sounds to me like she's only thinking of herself. I'm sorry she's putting pressure on you right now..that's the last thing you need

@StripeyChina what everyone else said is so true. It does hurt and maybe this is the last attempt from you. From experience those final attempts left me shaking and crying the most but the other side of it is better. It still hurts but you can feel stronger by not putting yourself in a position to be easily hurt by your dad again. 🤗

@JellyWellyBoots you may need to tell your sister you need space right now. If there was ever a time to protect your wellbeing it is now. Wishing you a swift treatment and recovery 🤗

She's put so much pressure on tomorrow that I don't want to go. I've had the flu all week but soldiered on, all her friends live far away so she doesn't really have anyone to do things with, hence why she's always asking me. I don't mind her asking me to do things but it's constant & I can't cope with the guilt trip. I feel like I'm being made out to be the unreasonable one. She's already declared that if anything happens to me she will have DD. But I already have a back up plan, she has no idea what taking on a child entails. The plan I have in place already will ensure security, but I don't dare tell her.

She doesn't see how utterly controlling and overbearing she is. 3 weeks ago she was calling me an anorexic pill popper. My ED is a choice, a selfish choice & DD deserves better.

I hate the pressure and the guilt but if I dare mention it she will get upset with me & make it out like she's just wants to spend time with me and I'm the mean one.

@JellyWellyBoots
Goodness she is a nightmare. Do what you want without engaging with the guilt. If you had no guilt what would YOU want ? . Do that and that only. Personally there may be a strong case for going no contact. You have to prioritise your health and child here now more than ever.
I am so sorry you have had this bad news and wishing you all the best. x

Im almost NC with my mother due to the awful upbringing i had.
However she only rings me when she wants something and its always a sob story.
She done awful things to us as kids and allowed awful things to happen to us.
We was always to blame or someone else to blame never her.
We were beaten for nothing and ate out of bins.
Kept us away from our real dad and lied to us about him.
She was a single mum but had a lot of new partners that were not nice to us bur she always took their side.
Golden child is my brother and he cant do anything wrong.
3 of my siblings have not spoken since leaving home just me that gets a call every few weeks maybe a month or so and its always i need help i need something.
She would find out were we lived and would send SS to us for no reason thats how sad she got.
She dont know where i live thank god.
But the last time i spoke to her she said things happened in the past was our fault.
Today i changed my number and it feels great.

Amazing, @wendycupcakes! Now flourish! 💜

Thank you.

Whaaaaaa I am going through a process of radical acceptance of who my parents and siblings really are. It's so painful. I'm grieving. I know that I have to go through this. I am no longer capable of pretending to myself that I have a loving family. Facing life alone is terrifying.... but then I accept the reality that I was always alone, I was just comforting myself with denial. This is very difficult. The more I accept what they are really like, the more my denial fades away, and then more and more I understand and accept who they are.

This is painful. I also understand that I have to go through this if I want to be happy and free. It's really hard.

Sorry I haven't said much about the details of my family. That can come later. I just want to tell people who will understand what I am going through....without having to describe the ins and outs of what they have done (... I don't want to ask for validation, I want to trust that you understand and believe me).

This is possibly one of the most terrifying times of my life (the unknown, life alone, accepting that I have been used, manipulated and abused by the people who should have care)...and just generally the future unknown.

I have been through a lot of trauma (unrelated to family) in the last few years. I have been to the depths of despair but I have met some amazing people who have helped me go on and I have found some amazing inner strength and wisdom. It has been going through these extremely difficult times that has led me to realise how very sad and disturbing my family are. And made me realise that I need to save myself and end my relationship with them.

Sorry this is rambling. Anyone else understand where I am coming from?

@catnippy oh I get it. I am almost 18 months into that process and wrote what you wrote in my diary. Totally terrified of the reality of being alone, i.e. of chipping away at all the denial and illusion that I was part of some family that allegedly showed love in its own way.

I learnt to emotionally regulate better and have processed a lot and even though I have almost no contact with my family (I don't even want to say something like 'my family') I feel much better on my own. I have days where I feel a kind of peace I have never felt before and I aim for this now.

How's your cat? 😺

@catnippy just read your post again. You say it's one of the most terrifying times of your life.

I am the exact same. Exactly the same. It's the hardest thing I have done after living through my childhood. I had many months since December 2022 that were just dark and are a blur. Many days I stayed in bed and cried. I had the most severe panic attacks like I never experienced before. Many memories surfaced that I had to cry over in order to process them. Often I just got flashbacks that paralysed me. I looked forward to Christmas 2023 on my own, but something came over me and I was a wreck. I didn't even want to spend it with them but I wasn't okay as I thought I would be.

I resisted so many attempts by them to get me back in and I carried so much guilt.

But I now start to see the rewards of processing it all. My physical reactions to triggers are a lot less. I sleep the best I have ever slept. I'm starting to get bored with my life as I am no longer just exhausted every day from the physical stress I had all my life. My nervous system is starting to feel safe.

I'm totally in awe that people out there have been living like this all their lives when I had no idea it existed.

@Twatalert thank you so much for replying. You really do understand what I am going through.

I have spent about two months almost completely in bed! Overwhelmed, completely exhausted and often quite disassociated .... and being continuously floored with realisations and flashbacks. I cannot describe the mental/emotional process that I am going through. I am so grateful that I am going through this. Although I have so much regret that it didn't happen earlier in my life. I am in my 40s now.

My cat is amazing. I adore him. Me and him are family!!

I am really blessed however, because I have some very supportive people nearby. When I was at rock bottom a few years ago (due to the unrelated traumas) I got some help from a local charity. I went on to volunteer for them. The charity is an amazing organisation and they have become like family to me. I am so grateful for them.

Today I went along to a group that was happening at the charity. I thought to myself, I can either stay here, alone and isolated and feeling rejected.... or I can walk down the road to be with some people who genuinely care about me. So I went down to the group and felt so much better after being around kind people.

My cat is amazing and I adore him

@Twatalert I was able to spend all that time in bed because things got really bad for me in the past. I had a complete breakdown. I lost my career and a lot more. I have been desperately trying to rebuild my life but it's been so hard. I feel like I have made a breakthrough now. I think I can finally get better

Sorry I didn't mean to put this in bold writing! And I don't know how to undo it

@catnippy it is rough, isn't it? I completely admire anyone who's facing this process. Often it comes out of necessity and great pain but it's also incredibly brave!

It sounds like you live my life, but without the charity for me. My cat is my family, too. I hope I'm giving him a nice life. I asked him today how he finds the service here and concluded he'd give me a 4 out of 5, haha!!

I'm just at a stage when my system is relaxing and I'm starting to find out who I really am. Turns out I'm quite nice and not the horrible things I was told as a child. I also want to make my life fuller, but I don't know yet how and there is still some barrier in me.

It's such a fine line to know when to push yourself and go out and when to just let the emotions happen and spend the day processing so to speak. I'm glad you have a supportive group around you. I have a few friends but they aren't local and I'm longing for a small local network but I don't yet quite know how to do it.