March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@Roseand2thorns I'd be wary of starting your dissertation on this topic, especially as you have lived experience and so it could be distressing and triggered for you, until you've got a supervisor who can support you and essentially keep an eye on you. If you're asking people to tell you about their experiences, then you're collecting data and you need ethics approval from your university/college. If you have this in place, that's great, but please mention it in your post so that you and your potential participants are safeguarded.

@Everchanging24 seeing a therapist is helping me so much but my therapist deals specifically in this type of stuff so choose carefully. I recently ALMOST got drawn back in by texts and then came across a recent message on fb publicly pretty much taking the piss out of me the same day as sending me message saying she misses us. its fucking hard. So hard.

@Everchanging24
So sorry that must hurt so much . Firstly though your "best " friend needs to get on-board and not inadvertently become a flying monkey . That is assuming her motives were good but with friends like that who needs enemies springs to mind ! She should have shielded it from you at all costs. Anyway that ship has sailed so moving forward all.you can do is ignore and stay completely no.contact so that you are unaware of the bull being written
And never forget that people are v good at deluding themselves and trying to.convince themselves of what they want to be true. You know the truth so hold fast to.that and be strong. Sending much love xxx

Thankyou just so hard isn’t it I love them I wouldn’t do this to them. I’m a good person why are they doing this to me.
I’ve got my kids and partner I’m not alone like some must have to be.
I think my friend was showing me to prove to me they’re doing things like this on purpose she’s not usually malicious maybe she thinks she’s helping.
I don’t need to see their stuff anymore though.

@tonewbeginnings
Thank you. There are a lot of little things that anger me, there have been other threats (e.g. to hurt me or destroy my belongings), but sometimes it is the suicide threats that are the most distressing. As a kid I thought it was my response to please and save them and I was a bad person for not doing what they wanted. Now I know what they did was abusive and it was just an empty threat. As an adult I can't imagine behaving like that.

That should say responsibility not response!

I've realised that everything that has gone on is affecting all of my relationships - I don't want to be a burden on anyone in any way, I struggle to speak up/ advocate for myself / stand up for myself / get my needs met sometimes, and I seem to always end up being either quiet, a doormat, or everyone's therapist. For example at work my boss once borrowed my work computer then said, "It's really slow, i don't know how you get anything done on that, I'll get you a new one. It must have been so frustrating for you, why didn't you tell me earlier?" and I was like, "well, I didn't want to bother you..." My boss is really nice, he wasn't telling me off, but I didn't want to be rude and tell him my computer was slow!

I am so frustrated and just want to purge it somewhere because I'm so angry about so many things.

The short version is that I'm trying to get my life in gear. I've got a new job, bought a new house, will soon be moving cities - I'm early 30s and I'm trying to plan for myself after a bit of a late start. And all the way, my DM is undermining everything. Saying I'm isolated, I don't "live" or enjoy my life because I just sit at home saving, and can't go on holiday regularly or get drunk every day or whatever she considers to be a normal life. It's true, for now. But the only reason SHE can do these things is because she lives on her partner's goodwill! Her whole damn life, one boyfriend after another, living in their houses, doing everything possible to avoid work and responsibility. Clothes, holidays, haircuts, boozing. She can't fathom why I don't want that life or why I'm not endlessly looking for men or having my highlights done and I just can't face another argument about it. I'm so done.

@PurpleSky300 I just wanted to say you're doing awesome to have got a new job, house and be taking the plunge relocating. I don't understand why our parents can't just be content/happy to see us doing well for ourselves. I've been doing a spot of navel gazing on my own relationship with my Mum lately, and all I've come up with is some parents see their kids as an extension of themselves thus project their own feelings and insecurities about themselves onto their kids.

I’ve been a lurker for a while- Honestly I find you people the best and most honest and kind people. You’ve taught me so much. You’ve helped me to be a bit braver and A LOT kinder. And I’ve never even posted on here . But I have started getting counselling because of the example and kindness of others on here.
It’s weird how malign and damaging social media can be … and on the other hand how non judgmental and healing it can be.
🙏I hope you all get the the healing side. And thank you.

( My history is narcissistic extremely religious mother who physically and emotionally abused me . My siblings reject me because i haven’t conformed to the role I was meant to play in a dysfunctional family)
Hats off to all of you.
Whatever you do- don’t play the role someone else has set out for you xxxx

Been lurking for while, I’ll conjure up the confidence to share my story at some point, but I’m pleased there is a place to find validation in what was an awful experience. So many of problems I have today have stemmed from my up bringing and I’m finally seeing my mother objectively and it’s really not nice, I feel sad for my younger self 😔😥.

I started a thread on here about a week ago questioning my parents’ treatment of me and was pretty shocked by the response.

i won’t repeat my story here as it’s long… but I am coming to terms with what they are. I live with them currently (will be able to move out before the end of the summer) and I just keep… forgetting that the way they interact with me is always going to be toxic.

any tips on how to live with them until I can out of here? I tried sharing some good news the other day only to be shot down in flames. It’s not unusual to just be completely ignored as if I don’t exist. I am aware of it now, but simultaneously I keep interacting with them and forgetting that every time I do I’m just going to be shamed or belittled in some way. I’ve heard of grey rock, but that wouldn’t go unnoticed.

I’m guessing just only interacting in regards to ‘neutral’ topics and nothing personal. If I can manage it.

Love to everyone here.
Things are up and down here for Mr Monkey after the death of his vile abusive mother in February. The Hag

Isn't it weird how the abusers trauma bond their children? He increasingly recognised the abuse - really physical and emotional - and has had counselling. There's been a blip where he's felt guilty, but tied in with that is the acceptance of The Hag choosing to live out her life neck deep in martyrdom to make her children suffer.

What is interesting is that Mr Monkey went out for lunch yesterday with his brother Slave Son, who, basically, was forced by the Hag to give the last 15 or so years to be her de facto screamed at husband.

No holidays, no relationships, expected to ring her twice a day.

Mr Monkey has terrible PTSD nightmares, recounted one to Slave Son who admitted how violent their childhood was.

Slave Son started to open up about how she dominated his life, his only social life was the social club round the corner and he had to drink his final pint quickly to rush home - he's disabled - to take her phone call.

Slave Son has now applied for social housing to a house he can manage, which is HUGE progress after ‘only’ three months after the bitch’s death.

Of course, during her lifetime she forbade him to move house as the area he lived in (slum) was where she dragged her kids up and now she’d moved round the corner from us (joy) she wanted to maintain a connection. Absolute fucking self-involved selfish cow. Slave Son can barely climb the stairs, he drags himself up.

Mr Monkey said SS looked so well. All the tension gone from his face.

MM even told Slave Son that he's going back to counselling. So glad for SS, but he's 66 and his life has been wrecked by The Hag.

Someone here observed how The Hag realising that SS’s disability was getting worse was lining up MM to be the replacement servant. Obviously, fuck MM’s happiness with me, all that mattered to her was her needs.

May she rot in hell.

Have a look at the yellow rock method, @Wigglytuff345.

vm.tiktok.com/ZGeQMRhCp/

Oh @MonkeyfromManchester I'm so pleased to read your update about Mr Monkey's brother. I hope he's able to forge out a life that suits him and he finds some peace.
I hope that Mr Monkey and you are also finding peace now the funeral is done and dusted.

@MonkeyfromManchester - she really was a prize c* and a shining example of how these people don't change. They only get worse with age. The sense of release and relief when they are gone just goes to show how much damage they cause.

Trauma bonding is utterly insidious and ruins lives. I hope MM can work through those feelings with his counsellor.

@MonkeyfromManchester it’s great that MM is going to see a counsellor. Working through these types of feelings can feel so complicated.

It’s interesting how MM’s brother feels. Narcs are such a controlling force. It’s sad how much she controlled him and perhaps he felt stuck with the situation.

Hope everyone can settle into a calmer and happier life now.

I recently keep having flashback dreams from my childhood. Some if them are about things that I forgot about and the dreams are surfacing fresh anger. I have no idea why this is happening at the ripe old age of 40- something. Especially as I have reduced contact or gone NC with many of the family bullies.

One thing that is happening outside of my dreams is that as my children are growing I am reminded of little me at that age. I feel incredibly sad about what I went through and incredibly glad that I broke so many cycles for my kids. It’s a very weird feeling to have so much sadness and gratefulness in one swoop.

I haven’t seen a therapist for a couple of years and feel like I need to again. It’s like layers of acknowledgment, acceptance and healing over years. I wish I could somehow do it all in one swoop!

I’m the same as you and I’m 38 we’ll soon to be and I find myself going back to the horrible childhood I was given after years suppressing and I’m NC now.
I was randomly sent money the wkend by my mom no explanation but she text my son said she sent it said I can’t tell anyone and not to send it back.
So she’s in an abusive relationship with my stepdad so I haven’t done anything I just kept the money but I don’t care about the money don’t want or need the money.

I text them at the weekend I said you scapegoat me you made sure I’m alienated and alone and my siblings won’t talk to me. The reply I got was they make their own choices.

Im ok I’m alright I have a lot of work to do on myself my neediness my reactive nature to situations my fear of rejection and paranoia.

I’ve worked hard to be a different mother but there’s always room for improvement and I don’t want to end up ever like they were.

Im on week 8 now it’s getting easier but I still feel lonely and strange sometimes. I’m still here though :-)

I lurked here a while ago but I never had the courage to write anything. People's experiences put my own in perspective, so I thought I haven't had it so bad. But actually, if that was the case I wouldn't have cried myself to sleep last night. My life wouldn't have taken the direction it did. I wouldn't have been plagued with mental health issues most of my life.
And last night wasn't the worst thing that's been said/done to me but it's what finally pushed me over the edge.
I'll be low contact now, I have to. I will never again share details of my life, good, bad or indifferent.
I'm trying my hardest to be the opposite to my parents. I know what it did to me, I won't let this be my son. There's just me and him. I work hard and I need him to see, everything we have, every accomplish was me. Just me.
But God, it hurts right now.
I never stood a chance.

Sending love @CoffeeLover90. I’ve gone low contact, and like you plan to I don’t share details of my life these days. Please do keep in mind that you may get a bit more hurt before you learn to feel better and prepare yourself for that.
I don’t think my parent has noticed that I don’t share details of my life now, and it’s highlighted that they’ve never actually asked or have shown an interest beyond how it impacts on them.
So whilst you are doing the right thing, be mindful that you may create more space for them to focus on themselves in your LC relationship, and that you may well feel hurt if they don’t show an interest in your son.
Forewarned is forearmed x

@Goldenmario Thank you. The thing is she does ask and show an interest and, without going into the whole tale of how it's come to this, uses it against me where she can. So she will definitely notice. I definitely don't care. My sister done this years ago and it's brought up all the time. How she never sees her- never tries to arrange visits or meetings though. Only does so with me very occasionally if I bring DS. How she never answers phone calls- well, considering how upset I am every time I get off the phone to her, I can understand.
I just feel deflated.

This is so true they adore my daughter but haven’t seen her for seven weeks now. True colours coming out never thought that would happen to be honest.

I'm currently low contact with my Covert Mother and processing a lot of memories and emotions. I would appreciate some advice please.

One thing I don't get is that my covert narcissist mother treated me worse in public than in private. Her public behaviour included the usual public shaming, hostility, put downs etc. But in private she was more faux interested and faux nice - but typically demanding and self absorbed.

This behaviour seems in direct contrast with the typical experience of covert narcissists being worse in private. Does anyone have any insight on this please?