March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Yes you are so right I feel when I do put boundaries in place they react very emotionally abusive I have tried in the past.
Usually by now I would be trying to contact them in some way but I haven’t this time.

I feel like mentally I’m drained now and don’t even want to. They go on holiday again on Monday so I will defo have a week off of any contact trying to be initiated. It’s very hard to explain it to people my best friend knows because she was the one who put me up for a year she doesn’t understand why I still talk to them but I have no one else.

Is it a healthy thing to go back to the past and remember what was done to you or does it make it worse ? There is no point talking to them about it ever again as it just gets denied anyway so I won’t be doing that.

Im just going to take it day by day I feel different this time though for some reason.

Yes I developed a serious illness at 16/17 and when o went through my divorce which was abusive I developed a serious and life threatening auto immune disease I’m on meds for life. I moved in with them in 2020 with my children and sold our house etc and within 6 weeks my hair had fallen out in clumps and then I developed a serious issue with my body attacking itself and was on steroids on and off for 3 years - only came off them last year. So yes. They did.
My parents are millionaires and live in a huge house and remind me how privileged I was - privileged enough to be beaten up regularly and have over 60 stitches due to injuries as a child. They say I was a clumsy child or I’m too sensitive or the famous parental answer ‘times were different I not recall that’.

My sister told me today I was selfish for having an eating disorder. She told me DD doesn't deserve to grow up with an anorexic pill popping mother.
She says she's trying the 'tough love' approach because I 'never fucking listen anyway'.
She said she loves me and wants to help me get better but I have to admit I have a problem and do it for DD etc.

I feel like a failure as a mother. I suffer from really bad depression & take medication for that. I take medication for sleep too. She told me I need to come off my anti depressants. She's all I really have yet surely this isn't right? She shouldn't be saying these things to me? I know they come from a place of concern but I would never dream of saying anything like that to her.
She's been like this all out adult lives, I'm always doing something wrong. I'm always mentally unwell in dire need of professional help.

So it is now almost a week since my mum turned up in my local shop a 40 min drive from her house. It was clearly to unnerve me somehow. Then that evening she rang one step sibling and talked about other things and at one point said out of the blue to him (step sibling, not close, not in same country) oh and I will be seeing my grandson for his birthday. Clearly that was to be passed on which it was and I have not relaliated but I am starting the whole anxiety stressy thing we all do now again. Bday is in a couple of weeks. We wont be in the country for it and I have a policy on my one social media platform that whatever I do i post after the fact so even if i wanted to post about being away i wont till we are home if that makes sense and haev decided to deactivate the account for the holiday anyway but it is the run up to it now that has me anxious. I hate this feeling. I shouldnt be made feel like this i know but i am. Why oh why can we not have normal families?

The anxiety I get that a lot too I’ve felt anxious this evening thinking about them it’s awful. Really feel for your situation I feel the same.

This is unbelievable sorry to ask are you middle class I know it doesn’t matter but I always feel like it doesn’t happen to people who have money I’m that naive.
I do believe stress causes something non of my siblings have had ill health like me either.

What is your relationship now ?

Money makes absolutely no difference to whether someone is abused or not.

I think money can cover it up more. People look to people with money and believe the facade they create - as the title of this thread. But abuse in a poor home is more likely to be covered up by shutting people out. Kids missing school for example. The abuse is all abuse but the way the parents behave and cover it up can be very different.

Sounds like your sister uses you like a dog to kick. Taking your antidepressants means you are trying to help yourself with your MH. An eating disorder in my experience is like being an alcoholic. It's for life even when you beat the behaviour it only takes a trigger to get you back on it trying to gain control.
Is she trying to practice tough love with you or push your buttons.whichever she is not helping you. Do you practice self care? I just believe in the George Benson mantra learning to live yourself is the greatest love of all x

Also parents with money can exert their control later with their financial handouts and bargaining. Or their we paid for your education we provided that. Parents without money generally abuse but the financial strings are not their to keep pulling one back - more likely to leave at 16 and stay out.

I think that’s what it is and you just don’t expect it do you but of course it happens.

@Genuineweddingone dont come off your medication you wouldn’t stop taking insulin if you were a diabetic it’s still an illness but in your mind not body.
Is your sister older than you ? Sounds like she enjoys the power play.

@Luddite26 totally agree. I grew up very middle class. I left home at 17 and remained low contact most my life. I was hoovered back when my mum became old and frail in her 80's she was still selfish, spiteful and a narcissist. My siblings have always been financially subsidised by my parents. I am happily married with a good life from my own endeavours, no handouts. My siblings are both single and resentful the years of subjugation has worn them down.
It's about choices, I chose to be independent and happy. An inheritance would mean I could retire now very comfortably off, I work part time, my own successful company. NC wasn't an easy decision but it was the only one to keep my dignity and self respect.
Abusers are in every social class but money = control IF you allow yourself to be controlled. I owe my parents absolutely nothing.

Good morning everyone,

The class/money issue is interesting. In my view my ILs like to paint themselves as a higher class than they are & give a sweeping “we don’t talk about that sort of thing” air when anyone tries to discuss anything real. DH therefore is of course the black sheep as he doesn’t go in for this pretend show. Behind closed doors there was lots that could be discussed here though of course the party line is very much of not discussing it, or if you do, the response is “how dare you tell someone that about me” as opposed to feeling any remorse or shame for the action, it’s put onto the victim for telling someone about it.

ILs effectively have the shutters pulled down with me as I have been told what’s happened and see their behaviour as it is. It’s not DHs fault for telling me how they treated him. It’s their fault for treating him so poorly that there was anything to tell and continuing to keep him as the black sheep as that suits their narrative.

Something I wanted to ask, has anyone found a way to deal with resentment (or experienced strong levels of resentment)?

I am struggling with this just now, examples would be DH’s sibling held up in high regard to the point everyone we come into contact with who has a connection must say to us how well they are doing. They are doing incredibly well in their work place, however, they have had help & support along the way. Being able to climb the ladder at work is far easier when you don’t need to reduce your hours for childcare as you have people falling over themselves to help you out meaning you also don’t have to spend any of your income on childcare.

Would I want these people looking after my DC? No! Am I incredibly envious of those who have people around them who want to support them practically or emotionally when we’ve had to struggle? Absolutely!

On my side one of my siblings is NC with our M. Sibling was GC, went off the rails & went NC years ago. I feel resentment that I am stuck with M, I am the only family member M is in contact with after cutting off all their own siblings (& parent when they were alive) as well as loosing contact with their other DC/my sibling. I feel this makes it almost impossible for me to walk away, it feels like everyone else got to leave the party and I’m here to tidy up.

My parents are upper class I don’t buy into identifying as a class. But both my parents are titled and millionaires. Didn’t stop my father splitting my head open.
I went to private school but my parents counted every bean. I wasn’t allowed more than 5 chips for example at an evening meal. I had no privacy and no friends as I wasn’t allowed people round. Any issues at school and they locked off massively and they would demand their way. I left home at 17 and went to university. Wasn’t entitled to a grant as my parents earnt too much but would they give me anything - no. I ended up with thousands of pounds worth of debt. My parents offered to buy us a house 4 years ago about £450 K in cash but it wasn’t what it seemed they wanted me and the children doing exactly what they wanted and the house would have been in their names with me having no rights. They wanted me (50 years old) to pay my salary into their accounts for this house and then they would pay the bills and give me an allowance - from my own salary!!!

Younger but I was always made feel she was better - better looking, better at everything. She isnt and I have more qualifications etc but as one friend said I could with a nobel peace prize and it still would not be enough. Its one reason i stopped with one child in case it was in me to pit my kids against each other.

"It feels like everybody else got to have the party and I'm here to tidy up"
Oh my gosh I've never related so strongly to anything
I come from a wealthy middle class family. My mum never gave a second thought to anyone but herself. Shopping addiction.
When my dad died she blew thru 20k in a week on crap.
I work nightshifts for the NHS and her income even when retired is about 5 times mine.
Due to her physical frailty now I am looking at having to try and care for her.
I've withdrawn a fair amount from this role now but still feel a duty.
However initially I actually took on the role of her carer and it was horrific watching her hemorrhage money every day on crap but refuse to buy my kids ice lollies in the supermarket etc... when she was living in our house she wouldn't pay a share of the bills until massively pressed for it and she acted like we were robbing her... her income is more than my husbands and we have 3 kids.
It was like that in my childhood too..
I left home in my teens and my parents always acted like I was the biggest financial burden ever.. despite me being an only child and leaving home young.
I remember when I'd first moved out I went thru a period of homelessness for various reasons... living in some ropey situations and even on a few occasions having to actually sleep on a bench near where I worked.
My parents knew I was struggling. For my birthday my mum sent me a hideous £700 quid designer bag. Even tho when asked I had said to just send me 20 quid to buy food. I couldn't sell the bag because I knew when she came down to visit she'd want to see me wearing it.
The resentment is hard to deal with because when you've been told all your life you are selfish entitled and spoilt just for having basic needs any child would.. you do not know whether your reactions are legitimate.
Now she needs my help I find it so hard because I don't feel like she ever really gave a thought to my needs when growing up. She just lived for her own pleasure. And I also know she didn't really help her own mother. She left the country to live in the south of France and when my gran got ill just put her in a nursing home and had power of attorney... she financially exploited the situation. And then when gran died she got a 500k inheritance. My gran had promised me 50k to help me buy a home. My mum to this day acts like she personally gave me this money. Any minor criticism of anything she does is met with "I own your house really because my money helped pay for it"
And when my dad died we had to sort out the estate... there's none of that 500k anywhere it's all gone.. and they had also inherited when my dad's mum had died about 5 years ago...again no sign of that money. My mum has spent all this money. And it's not that I thought I would get any of that money.. it's the staggering waste. My mum will literally buy a 100quid bottle of perfume take two sprays then leave it to spoil. But over and over... her house is filled to the rafters with stuff she can't take care of.. and she hoarded animals two and she can't clean due to the amount of stuff. When we were trying to clean the place there was just dog and cat shit matted everywhere under these piles of crap...
I just feel such pain when I'm there throwing dior handbags covered in catshit in the bin... when I'm pushing my mums wheelchair round jewelers.. when she's spent all her money on expensive hats and I have to buy her food otherwise she just won't eat and will end up back in hospital.
I really do feel like I've come to clean up after a party I was never invited to. And I'm doing it for free or even sometimes at my own expense!
It's like that when you have empathy and sympathy and feel guilt and the other person doesn't. I'm locked in because she knows full well I could never just leave her to die.

@Kateboosh you have chosen to remain to tidy up, the rest of your family see exactly who your mother is and decided to walk away. That's on you not them. You have exactly the same choices, you either choose to benefit your own life or your mothers, you can't do both with abusers.
Resentment robs your life of joy, time to put your big girl pants on and leave the golden child to step up. I did, I left my siblings dealing with resentment that they were very handsomely paid for over the years.

@Pearlyclouds you owe your mother nothing. You do not need to become her carer.
You need to block her and concentrate on your own family.

@JellyWellyBoots please block your sister.

@TheShellBeach I'm no longer officially her carer.. I did that for 10 months. I'm not doing it again. But I do feel a duty towards her trying to get her into safe accommodation and get her to accept a professional carer. I am aware I may not be able to do this but I do think as one human being to another I should attempt to before I cut all ties. She nearly died and was in hospital 5 weeks. I do not want the guilt of leaving someone to die hanging over me for the rest of my life.
It's just useful for me to express that it's still hard. I know it must be frustrating for you guys when u know the answer is to cut all ties. But I appreciate having the space to talk about this.

This resonates. I think if you're from an outwardly comfortable family, especially one where they go to church, do charity work, make friends with the vicar's wife etc, noone would believe that your parents are neglectful etc. We were scared witless of putting a foot wrong because we would be hit, and we were badly emotionally abused and neglected. One of the power trips the mother held over us was that we were from a nice family and noone would believe our evil lies, and if we lied we would be taken away and locked up by the police and go to hell. It took a long time into my adulthood to realise that wouldn't have happened. The police bit anyway. If hell exists and it's not where my parents are but I can be with my dogs then I'll take it.

I remember the late Princess of Wales came from a violent, dysfunctional family, where her mother escaped from her dad's DV and all of them were afraid of him.
I imagine people found that hard to believe, but money and privilege don't preclude people from being abused. Not at all.

@TheShellBeach a good example of how dysfunction is generational no matter how much privilege.
Abuse and dysfunction is like gangrene you have to cut it out, kindness won't cure it.

Has your mum returned to UK? @Pearlyclouds

@binkie163 not yet but she has booked on a flight in two weeks