March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@Richandstrange well done. Huge achievement.

Hello all, just checking in. Rightly or wrongly I emailed my mother to lay down some boundaries and conditions on which we could potentially maintain contact. Didn't go in to too much personal stuff, tried to keep it practical and matter of fact. I am now feeling huge stress about it. She won't have liked it at all as I don't usually enforce boundaries or stand up for myself. It's only after just over a year of therapy that I feel able to do so. But now I'm racked with guilt and stress. Is this normal?! She hasn't replied to my email and I'm not entirely sure if she will tbh. She might just cut us off.

@IAAP I am the eldest and my mother is the youngest. I'm not sure why she is the way she is as I only have lovely memories of my grandparents.

They did give support yes, I think the difference is that I used to think they did that out of love/kindness and now it just feels like another way to control me and make me dependent on them. I often had the feeling they were trying to 'buy' me somehow, like anything they ever did for me obligated me to them in some way, but I never understood why I felt like that. Now I wonder if it was all to ensure my silence about what he did, and she turned a blind eye to, like if they kept me small enough and beholden enough to them then I wouldn't speak against them.

I absolutely will use my anger positively, it's actually the thing that motivates me the most, I'm always super-productive when I'm angry 😊

In case this helps anyone in a similar situation. I recently visited my mother for a few days and while I was there my brother + sister-in-law were in town. They wanted to pop around to say a quick hello to my mum.

To give some context they have been bullying me since I was around 5. A few years ago I realised they are full on narcs but I stayed LC with them. When my father died and covid hit, my brother ramped up the bullying. Messages + calls with him superficially acting friendly and then making inappropriate remarks disguised as jokes. So I went NC. They have since been in a rage, spreading rumours and brainwashing my mother into thinking I am a horrible person. I haven’t seen him or his adult children for almost 3 years.

So, when I heard he was popping over I started feeling anxious. I just sat with my feelings and my heart started racing. Then I could feel myself beginning to shake. So, I took some deep breaths. I could have left the house with my children and husband but I thought that would fuel my brothers bullying / rage. He desperately wants drama.

So here is what I did instead (and it worked);

• deep breaths to get my heart and shaking out the way
• reminded myself of all the things they had done
• reminded myself that they are not decent people
• reminded myself that I have done nothing wrong
• reminded myself of the strength and kindness I have inside me

The last thing I did sounds super weird, but it helped a lot! I imagined adding ‘and you can now fuck off’ to the end of each thing I said to him and his wife. So, when he said ‘hello’ I said ‘hi’ back but in my head added ‘and you can fuck off’. I have no idea why I came up with this. It worked so well. I gave each of my short answers this ending in my head. He wasn’t rude, didn’t make jokes about me and roll around laughing as usual. The whole interaction only lasted 30 minutes.

Afterwards I took a rest / nap to reset my brain. I have never felt ok around my brother and I realised that whenever I meet him my entire body + voice goes into victim mode. This in turn fuelled his bullying even more! I think that adding ‘and now you can fuck off’ in my head to the end of each thing I said gave my voice, body and presence more power.

I have absolutely dreaded running into him these last 3 years and now I am glad I did because I don’t dread it happening again. I plan to stay NC but there may be an occasional encounter with him every few years I suppose, because of my mother.

My children didn’t really know who he is and I just told them a relative is coming to visit - just say a quick hello and continue doing whatever you want. They just said hi and went off to play. I have briefly explained my brother’s bullying to my eldest and that she should find a parent if she ever finds herself alone with him (it’s unlikely to happen but it did once during my dad’s funeral and she was made fun of). My husband sat by my side but kept chat to a minimum too.

I stayed LC for a long time with brother and his flying monkey family. I wish I hadn’t and just gone NC. I dreaded having these encounters which is why I stayed LC but it actually made his bullying worse.

Anyone sitting on the fence who is LC and wants to go NC but feel scared because of occasional run ins with their bully or narc seriously think about going NC. It is possible 🤗

Well done @tonewbeginnings - that is brilliant. I love the 'and you can fuck off' at the end of each sentence in your head...I may borrow that idea...

I would say it is normal @CreatingHavoc - the waiting for the reaction is stressful. How would you feel if she did cut you off for daring to send this?

I need to go back a page on this thread as I've lost track of the other posts now...

So do I.

I've certainly not been able to provide a lovely, warm and supportive wider family. I wish I could go back and change a few things now I've had my eyes opened to the extent of it all.

I really hope that they marry/partner with someone who has that. Maybe I'm putting too much stock in to it though.

All we can do is try our hardest not to and keep talking. If I asked anything approaching a difficult question then I was either completely ignored or shouted at. That certainly doesn't happen in our house, although I do wonder if I am fielding some questions well. I'm going to come back later to talk about that though.

Well done @Richandstrange - big step forward! Sorry the circumstances of it were so hard though - glad to hear your DH will be discharged soon. I've often wondered about the stages - how many there are, exactly where I am on the journey...

The problem with adding And you can fxxx off in your head is the danger of it accidentally slipping out loud 😂

That happened to me! It was well deserved though. My mother then was the aggrieved party as I’d „said a bad word“. Every time I see her I am fighting with my brain not to scream „fuck off“ at her.

😂 Perhaps a benefit rather than a danger! But, yes it could happen…. I think I may only need to deploy this tactic occasionally 🤞

It is very unnerving when you see then it gets easier.

My hairdresser is no contact with her sister 10 years now and her sister stopped talking to her. She spent the first 5 years deliberately waving hi you look well at her. And now just blanks her.

I used to hyperventilate etc and have panic attack. I’ve not seen them since August - they were at the local carnival and I saw them and just moved out of their eye line. I’m a bit more them at the moment and have no intention of interacting at all.

m if it bothers you rewind it in your mind and remember she can put on all the dirty looks she wants - just better hope the wind doesn’t change 😀

Tell your step brother you don’t want to talk about her and she’s not in your family any more

@Interlevels I'm not sure how I'd feel tbh. I think I'd be sad but if she isn't willing to change her behaviour in order to see her grandchildren then it just shows how little she actually gives a shit.

I've started following some of the IG accounts listed on the first post and I'm relating hard. They're very validating, highly recommended!

Hi guys. I don't post often but I always read thru these threads because they are helpful. People's stories on here are sometimes truly shocking. My heart goes out to all of you. Sometimes I feel like an imposter because my own mother whilst very hard to interact with or be around, basically lacks interest in me beyond what use I might be to her. If I'm no use to her she simply doesn't contact me.
You may remember.. altho it was a long time ago I posted... that she came to live in my house in England after my dad unexpectedly died when they were living in France. He was her carer as she has MS. I am their only child.
She was here for 10 months and I tried to be her carer, gave up work to do this... well it went dreadfully..i had to go back to work 12 hr night shifts on top of beibg her carer because of her refusal to contribute financially (she has the same income as my husband and ows the property in france outright so no mortgage) and then I fell pregnant... and just a landslide of events which meant she could no longer stay here. And also her being absolutely awful to me and my daughter (altho she likes my son) and her untrained dog i was expected to look after. I tried to get her to rent somewhere near by but she wouldn't engage with this and demanded to be taken back to France.. so my husband drove her back there in the massive car that she had bought for herself and set up home help for her there.
Well she crashed the car trying to drive it when she had been repeatedly warned nor to... she took the dog back there despite me trying to rehome it and bought more cats (we had rehomed the last lot) she cannot physically care for these animals. We had also cleaned her house last time we were over (large 7 bedroom house full of stuff as she has a hoarding problem and spending issues) it turns out she has just refilled filled it with stuff.
She sent away the home help saying she didn't need it.
I got a call from her neighbours who have been helping her whilst she's been there for the 6 months shes been over there.. for free.. and at the expense of their own health.. saying she had had a series of falls due to not eating (I think she has an eating disorder, refuses to eat vegetables of any kind will only eat limited specific branded foods) and then had a pulmonary embolism. (She chain smokes and refuses to stop)
She was in hospital five weeks.
These people who were helping her have been quite hostile towards me and DH. In one phone call shouting at me that I sounded cold and how could I abandon my own mother and what was I going to do about sorting it out. I owe her because they raised me and leant me money etc..(i should add my dad was on a 6 figure salary in the 90s and early 00s and im an only child but i left home at 16 and was actually sleeping on the streets rather than go home initially)
I had just given birth to my third child atthe point these people helping her started calling, baby was literally two weeks old. I developed preclampsia and was very ill.. I was also and still am under the perinatal mental health team and on anti psychotic medication. My mum BTW has not spoken to me throughout the entire pregnancy.. the first time she spoke to me was last week.. my baby is now 2 months old. She didn't ask after me or the baby.. she doesn't even know where I work.. she knows barely anything about me.
Anyway these people who have been helping her are kind of trying to force us to take on more and more
(I vowed my mother would never set foot in my home again after I found her smoking indoors next to my severely asthmatic child who had literally been in and out of hospital with breathing issues) they want us to 'just find her somewhere' I have been sending links to potential rental properties for my mum to try and rent but apparently this is too hard and we need to do it for her.
I think they essentially expect us to rent somewhere in our names and put her in it. I'm not willing to do this because I don't trust her at all. She already has a phone contract in my name that she took out and only told me after she had done it.
She rang me last night to say she'd applied for a property shed found near to me.. this property is completely unsuitable.. it's ridiculously expensive abd the only bathroom is up a steep flight of stairs she won't be able to climb. She also told me she had put me down as a guarantor! I cannot fkn guarantor this property even if I wanted to!
She won't look at the properties I sent her because they aren't in the town I live in. But I live in a small phenomenally expensive tourist town where there are hardly any rentals.. it's also a valley so even if there are rentals they are usually steep terraces she couldn't manage. She refuses to look in nearby flatter towns or the city where it is cheaper..
She's booked on a flight back here in a few weeks and I think she's hedging her bets and acting like she's afraid she won't be 'looked after well' if she comes here.. and putting pressure on the people helping her over there.. possibly saying she won't get on the plane if we don't sort things out to her liking. So we are getting more and more irate phonecalls from these people.
This is all made extra complicated by the fact when my dad died I inherited his part of the estate due to french laws. So I'm legally tied into the estate. I can't just change my phone number and never speak to any of them again. She needs my permission and cooperation to sell the house. (Which she massively resents abd blames me for)
I'm just so sick of it and full of rage.
I feel backed into a corner where I'm gonna have to take responsibility for her. And I'm honestly embarrassed because she shafts people, she lies, she steals.. I don't want my name on any legal things that have anything to do with her.
But I also love her very much and I don't want her to just die.
And it is like a game of chicken.. because she refuses to be reasonable to the extent she puts herself at massive risk and then someone will feel compelled to step in and help her. And then they'll get reeled in and she treats them like shit. She just will not do anything she thinks is hard or boring.. she's incredibly entitled. But it's to the point of insanity like she actually puts her life at risk because she's out there spending thousands on clothing rather than buy food or pay for help with care. She won't listen to anyone. I'm simultaneously terrified she'll drop dead but also often wish she would for the relief of it.. and then I feel like an evil piece of shit.
I honestly tried so hard when she was here to make her happy and convince her to work together but it was awful.. I fantasised every day about killing myself. I cannot have her in my home again.
Sorry this was really long. It helps to get it out. It's a nightmare abd the lack of sleep from the baby obviously doesn't help!

I'm jumping in with my first post on stately homes despite being on Mumsnet since around 2005.

I'm not up to speed on the thread but wanted to say I feel for anyone who has had a toxic upbringing and am very grateful that this thread exists- I already feel less alone after reading the OP.

It's hard to know where to start. I could write a novel.

I'm here I guess because I feel awful guilt that I am in a situation where I think maybe I am trying to maintain some relationship with my mum for material reasons and I hate myself for it and think it makes me deserving of her awful behaviour. But I daren't walk away,

Mum is really difficult. She has a bad relationship with alcohol. She abused me verbally and physically as a child and teenager. When she reached the end of her short tether she ranted, shouted, beat me, threw whatever was at hand at me and scared me witless despite being a tiny woman. She called me names, criticised me relentlessly, dragged me out of bed and the bath to hit me.

I cannot feel safe, comfortable, relaxed or ok in any way around her. Over the years I've learned to manage our relationship by being good and trying not to anger her.

Until recently my son (15) adored both my mum and her long suffering husband. More recently I guess as his life experiences and emotional maturity has grown he has begun to see how nasty she is to me and has bravely called her out on it. I feel so proud of him for speaking up without fear but I have tried to let him know that he should not feel the need to do this because he's my son and i want to be his parent not someone he needs to defend.

Last year my husband (not my son's dad) walked out suddenly. We are getting divorced. I am by far the weaker financial party and he is trying everything possible leave me with as little as possible to the extent that I have genuine worries about affording to live. As it is now not possible to get legal aid I have had to use a solicitor and we are facing court proceedings beginning in 6 weeks.

I have no funds to pay for this. My mum is extremely wealthy and has been paying my legal fees. I don't want to fleece my ex, he is a very wealthy man and I just want to have enough to manage.

Over the last few years with the help of therapy I have found my voice and my self esteem. I am learning to stick up for myself and am no longer a pile of mush when mum starts being horrible.

Part of my husband's reasons for leaving was that I was becoming opinionated and doing things without him (swimming and yoga). Mum said I deserved it as I had let myself go.

Sorry I am rambling. But I need to get off my chest that more and more I see that mum is not a good person, that some of her behaviours are utterly bizarre and that I despite a heavy feeling of guilt and shame I don't want her in my life. Some of her actions totally baffle me.

But I am clinging on because without her financial help I cannot see this divorce through and will end up destitute. I know that sounds dramatic but it is my genuine fear, not for me but for my son.

Sometimes she says she knows I only care about her because of her money. It's never been true before but I feel that now there is some truth in it and I feel paralysed by the situation.

There was a huge row this evening. She was hideous to me in front of my son. I'm now terrified of the silence, or drama that will ensue and the fear that she will stop helping me with solicitors bills.

Part of me says so be it. That I want the freedom of not having this hanging over me. That I'll be ok. But the truth is that life is horribly expensive, I am scared of being homeless and I daren't underestimate how bad things could get financially for me.

I've battled so hard to pick myself up after my husband left. I'm not sure how much I've got left in me ATM. I need to try to build a bridge with mum despite her being a monster to me. She will probably go silent and take to her bed and make my lovely stepdads life hell until he calls me and makes me apologise.

Sorry for the long and pointless post.

@Pearlyclouds sorry to hear everything you are going through. I understand that life is incredibly expensive at the moment and you have additional financial pressures on you.

Perhaps it could help to de-couple your mother’s behaviour and her financial help. It sounds like your relationship with her is making you distressed and she is having a negative impact on your son too. Her financial help will come with a lot of additional problems for you. Can you think about your finances separately and make a plan of action for yourself?

If you feel like the only reason you are maintaining a relationship with her is for financial reasons then things could become more wrought with your mother.

Take things slow, give yourself time to think and plan yourself out of this.

@Pearlyclouds you're feelings are valid and you're definitely not an imposter. Your mother sounds awful and incredibly hard work. Is it possible to get her in to supported living, either in France or here? She's clearly in need of professional health care that's beyond your capacity to deal with.

@Onedaystronger that's a very tricky situation to be in. Needing financial support from someone who has been abusive to you your entire life is less than ideal. I can understand the turmoil that must bring. Being dragged through a divorce is traumatic in itself but from the small amout you've said about your ex, it sounds like a good thing that you're no longer together. Therapy has been really helpful for me with regards to putting boundaries in place too.
Would it be possible to tackle one thing at a time? Maybe see through the divorce first and then deal with going low/no contact with your mother? Try not to feel guilty about the money aspect, you've had a lifetime of abuse from this woman and you're doing what's best for you and your son. I hope everything goes well for you in the court proceedings.

@Pearlyclouds She can return to UK but that doesn't make you responsible, let her get on with it, step away, stop taking her calls. You have a baby to look after. You know exactly how it will go with her, she won't change.
@Onedaystronger you are in a difficult situation but when you accept money, support or a home from an abuser/narcissist, you are entering into a contract with them. You know it and they know it, you are obligated, they have you by the balls.
Families are supposed to help but with a narcissist abuser it isn't help it is control and you are accepting the conditions of subjugation.
I understand how hard it is, I knew going NC with my mum cost me my inheritance.

@Pearlyclouds
Would it be possible to hand any legal dealings related to the French estate to a lawyer and state all communication about it must go through them?
And then step away from all dealings with your mother about her moving back to the UK etc. Just do not engage with her about it.

I'd be very surprised if any rental will let her put you as a guarantor without your agreement or signature. So just refuse, not to her, the rental agency/LL. Thought it sounds as if she isn't above fraud and forging your signature so if you do know what rental agency she's going through then contact them by email to make it clear you are not doing it.

Everyone here will know how hard to is to reduce contact or cut off a close family member, especially someone elderly and getting to the point they struggle with day to day living. But you cannot take on her problems, ones she has created for herself. She won't change and will always be a a taker not a giver. For the sake of your own family and your health you need to pull right back. If you wobble on it, remind yourself that every time your prioritise her you are taking that time and ficus away from your children and husband.

As for the French neighbours, just block their calls, refuse to talk to them. Clearly they've leant that no good deed goes unpunished.

@Pearlyclouds please just put the phone down when the people from France phone. Just stop engaging with them.

Your mother is destroying you.

You must stop feeling responsible for her. Let her make her own hideous mistakes.

It sounds like she isn't in any state to travel back here anyway.

I'd ignore her completely and leave her to it.

Your own young family are your priority. And your own mental health.

@Pearlyclouds - I agree with TheShellBeach - your mother will destroy you if you let her.

It sounds like you are trauma-bonded to her (you say you love her but this could be a deep-set guilt coming into play).

She is NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. She has chosen to live the way she does and has also chosen to wreak havoc on your life with no regard to the affect it is having on you.

Stop engaging with the French neighbours. They are rightly sick to death of your mother, but again this is not your fault. You didn't ask them to get involved. Let them take their anger out on someone else. Block them and do not engage any further. It doesn't matter what they think. They don't know jack shit about your history with your mother.

Your mother will not be able to make you a guarantor for anything without your say-so. The only way she could wangle this is by means of criminal fraud. This again is nothing to do with you.

Please try to emotionally detach yourself from her and her chaotic life. Do not step in to help. It will only end badly. Leave her to her own devices. Block her number if you have to, or at least get a burner phone.

Keep all your energies for yourself and your young family. Look after your mental health.

There is NOTHING you can do for your mother that won't end in disaster.

@Onedaystronger - shit, that's a really tough situation. It's no wonder you're struggling.

Being the adult child of an abusive mother is really difficult. We are left with very deep scars and there are lots of triggers that dig up all those terrifying feelings we experienced as children.

AND you are going through a high-conflict divorce.

AND you're worried sick about what the future holds.

What a total nightmare for you.

First things first: you know that this whole situation is going to be temporary. You need to get yourself through the divorce process, which is always horrible. Your mother, of course, is making it worse, but there's not much you can do about that.

My advice is this: do not worry about or feel bad about taking money from your mother for legal fees. Try to emotionally detach from her as much as you can, and use her as a cash-supply towards the cost of your divorce. After the way your mother has behaved you might as well try to get something out of her that can be of use to you at this time of need (money).

Try not to think too far ahead. You can deal with your mother later. Right now you just need to concentrate on getting divorced and surviving all the shit that it will inevitably bring to your door.

Perhaps you can view dealing with your mother as though you are dealing with a difficult child who you don't particularly like. Ignore the bad behaviour. Force yourself to smile now and then. See them as little as you can get away with.

Above all: HANG ON IN THERE.

Thanks guys. I have been trying to get her into sheltered housing but the nearest ones round here are council. The advice I was given when I rang was to get her yo present as homeless when she returns as that would be her quickest way into sheltered housing. But she may be temporarily housed in emergency accommodation which would likely not be very nice. My mum won't tolerate this as she has very high standards. She would also need to engage with this process. I do not have power of attorney and she has capacity. We tried to get a care act assessment last time she was here but she wouldn't give her consent.
The best path for her is just to get a shott term rental or holiday let in the nearby city.. all on one level so she can cope easier.. do the assessment, present as homeless as her accommodation is not suitable long term and she needs sheltered housing.. then just go down that route until she is given a flat in my area. I do not think she will do this despite us having sent all the details of how she would go about it. I don't know what the French neighbours expect me to do... well I think even though they won't say it outright that they expect we would drive over there and collect her force her in the car and bring her back to our home. I won't do this. I don't know what she's been saying to them.. it's just so hard to for me to know someone thinks I'm awful and unkind. Even though I don't know them.
As for the legal stuff there is a French lawyer who we went to who handles the estate and I would be contacted by him. But this is a source of massive guilt. Money is a big issue because I feel like I've stolen something... I don't really want this burden. I wish there was a way I could disinherit myself so I could cut off from this situation entirely.. but I imagine even if there was my children would just be next in line so I'd still have to deal with it all at some point. My husband is so patient but obviously thinks she is an horrific person. He says I should take my dad's portion of the estate when the house sells because my mum will just spend it on hoarding crap. My mum clearly expects me to hand this money over to her. She threatened to kill me on front of the lawyer when he told her about the French law and how I legally owned part of the house now. She told me she'd follow me to England and strangle me to death if I ever tried to take any money from the estate. It was really embarrassing, the lawyer didn't know how to react. I just said ' please don't speak to me like that'.
I don't know why I can't just hate her. Or at least feel indifferent. There's a part of me that feels so deeply sorry for her. All my life her emotions have been centred. But it hasn't helped her be happy.. she's not a happy person. She's the architect of her own horror. She's never really connected with anyone, she has no real friends other than this couple who feel a duty towards her but definitely do not like her. She clearly feels nothing for her grandchildren
It's really sad. I cling on to the happy memories I have of her as a child of which there are some. I don't know why I do this abd still some part of me thinks I could help her and she'd be happy and she'd love me. I'm 36 years old and still thinking that. How do you stop?
I think it's hard because the abuse was never extreme and they were wealthy so I was in a nice house, I wasn't ever sexually abused, not routinely hit (she hit me a few times but not as a structured form of discipline, I was just ignored as long as I wasn't creating any trouble for her, i often felt like a ghost) so I feel like there's nothing I could say that justifies turning my back on her. Just because she has no empathy, is very self centred (moved my school 16 times becuase she wanted to move house or fell out with someone there etc) constantly criticises and manipulates, expects you to revolve everything round her... these are stressful but don't seem like real abuse in my head (altho if someone else spoke about this I would frame it as abuse of them) I just can't let go of the sense that it's me at fault and if I trued harder it would come good.

@Onedaystronger the money thing is so relatable for me. My parents were wealthy and my mum is still getting more income than us.. and this has always been used to control and manipulate. Several years ago they gave me 15k when my grandmother died (they inherited 250k) to add to the deposit for a house so we were able to buy a house closer to my sons school. I feel I should not have taken this money. But then again its massively benefited my kids that I took that money. I feel like I've been bought and I'm now tied in to some duty to my mother to help her.
They have used money throughout my life in a similar way. Constantly complaining of the financial burden of me. I left home just as I turnedx17 after my AS levels and didn't have much contact for a while. But when I wanted to go to college my dad helped me by sending me 30 quid a week for a year.. and there's been other points in my life where they sent me money
It's so hard when you've accepted this to detach. And it's such temptation because if you are really struggling and especially if you know it would help your children, you know they have this money.
I don't envy your situation because you can't win there can you.. you have to accept that money for the good of your kids. And you shouldn't feel guilt but I know from personal experience that she will make sure you do and try to manipulate you to high heaven about it.
So hard.

@Pearlyclouds It is very easy to disinherit yourself in France. Contact the notaire and they will do the renunciation. It may be a bit more paperwork as more than 4 months have elapsed, in France no one can be forced to accept an inheritance (succession) or the tax implications, that includes your children.
Is your mother still committing benefit fraud from your address? You need to stop that before getting the local authority housing involved they will be able to access benefit info and obviously she states she lives with you and therefore not homeless.
You would probably benefit from legal advice in UK as well as France, do not be dragged into her fraudulent behaviour, it could have long lasting consequences for you and your family.

@Pearlyclouds I would also think sheltered housing is a bit like care/nursing homes, if you have over 23k you pay for it, it isnt provided free by the council. In which case she can move directly into a nice private sheltered/assisted home. Your local authority will ask for bank statements and pension info which I assume will be registered in her french address, they can ask for up to 10 years if they think she is trying to hide assets. This has the chance of blowing up spectacularly in both yours and your mums face.

@binkie163 it's interesting to hear that it's easy to disinherit yourself in France... I do want to contact the notaire about that (he was the 'lawyer' my mum did that stuff in front of) but I'm going to discuss that with my husband.. I have suggested it before as I'm very worried about the absolute stress she's going to cause if I'm still attached to the estate.
I'm not so worried about about the potential benefit fraud now that she's booked on a flight to come back to the UK as you can leave the country for up to 6 months. She isn't even at her house at the moment as it's unlivable.. she has been staying in these neighbours house. So technically she does still have my house as her address. But if she doesn't get on this flight the 6 months will be up and I will start returning those letters with 'no longer at this address' written on them. Equally when she gets back here if she doesn't go into the rental accommodation I am going to tell the council I've kicked her out.
And if she does go into one of the flats I've found she will be changing her address to there.
Regarding the sheltered housing yes she will have to pay rent on it but it's controlled rent as it's thru the council so a lot cheaper than normal and also with the added bonus of a warden. It doesn't count as a nursing home type situation so the warden is just included in the monthly rent. The issue is what banding she would be when she applied for these sheltered properties as if you own your own property you are not considered a priority... however I rang the council and asked about this abd they said she may be higher priority due to her needs and the fact she cannot live in her property. But yes she'd have to pay rent it wouldn't be paid for her.