Am in utter shock

[honeyandbutterontoast]

Will start by saying this is an OW thread. So I’m not asking for sympathy, I’m just in utter utter shock.

Twelve years ago I met someone. We were both married. We fell in love (I thought). My DH was a bad man, I’m not excusing myself but he was. I divorced him, took the bare minimum and waited for OM to do the same.

He didn’t. For years it went on, his excuses, so I wouldn’t see him, he begged me to be patient. I was his soulmate, his best friend, etc etc etc. And I loved him so much.

We bought a house together, he decided on completion day that he couldn’t leave her. I was in a financial mess for years over that.

In Oct 22 I gave him an ultimatum (this date is important), he had to leave her or we couldn’t speak anymore (up till this point we emailed and texted multiple times a day). He said he couldn’t leave her, couldn’t be without his kids. He went away on holiday with them.

Stupidly we stayed in touch “as friends”. Daily he would ask to see me. He would tell me he wanted to be with me, no matter what would make it happen.

(Sorry this is an essay)

Last spring we saw each other for lunch a couple of times. Something was off but I couldn’t work out what, he seemed depressed. I started dating again and told him we could only be friends.

In the summer he sent me a photo and I noticed he didn’t have a wedding ring on! He told me he had “recently” left his wife but didn’t know how to tell me. That he wasn’t sure if we should move in together straight away (!!) or just get to know each other as single people.

We met for lunch a couple of times, he had endless excuses why I couldn’t see his new flat. It all seemed odd but somehow plausible. We last saw each other in October but carried on messaging multiple times a day, chatting about everything. Or so I thought.

He told me he was very depressed and unhappy. Needed time to get used to life alone. I truly believed he was unhappy, possibly even suicidal at times.

This evening I received a message. From his girlfriend. Who he lives with. Who he had told he was separated when he met her 18 months ago. Yep when I gave him the ultimatum, he was with her. They have a whole life together.

She is 20 years younger than he is.

We spoke on the phone and while speaking she was looking through his phone. There are multiple women. All that age. It’s been going on for years with them.

How he has time to run a company I do not know.

So here I am, 12 years on. In utter shock. And that poor girl. I didn’t know what to say to her, I could only assure her there has been nothing intimate between us since before she met him. Unfortunately he has been with others.

i honestly would have told you he was my best friend. His behaviour had been odd yes, but I never thought for a moment it was like this.

His last messages to me were how he had an okay day today, hadn’t done much. They are on holiday!!!

I get that in some ways I deserve this. But she doesn’t. He obviously was putting his wedding ring on to meet me! How messed up is that. Or maybe he wasn’t married then anymore?!

And I’m guessing when we were actually in an intimate relationship he was shagging these other women. I really had no idea. He would beg me not to leave him as he was so unhappy but had no idea how to leave without losing his children/business.

Desperately need to sleep but had to get all that out. It’s like an episode of eastenders.

OP is very naive if she thinks her not wanting to go public and her friends saying they won't leak it means it won't come out. Any of the women involved could decide enough is enough and go public. Who have your friends mentioned it to? Partners, hairdressers, neighbours etc. All the other women have probably told their friends. Who have they told?

I’ve blocked them both. Moved any emails etc I might need to a separate folder and will move on. I think she’s taking him back, so good luck to her.

Good. It's weird that you and he have basically conducted your break up/falling out via his new girlfriend.

She will probably take him back, for much the same reasons as you held on to him over the years. He's a convincing liar, a fake, a conman, and you were fooled.

What really hurts though, is that when you look back, you'll see all the times you chose to be deceived. All the ways you knew the truth but lied to yourself. Please do get some therapy or find a compassionate friend to talk to, because there is the utter shock of realising who this man really is, and then there is the slower, but deeper and more transformative pain of realising a part of you knew it all along.

My instinct is that he’s probably not as well known or newsworthy as OP feels he is…

I know it’s easy to lose perspective a bit when they’ve loomed large in your world.

I think she should just move on and put it all behind her.

Reads like you've been the bit on the side too

Yeah you said it, but sadly that didn't stop "it" from being lazy, thoughtless, ad hominem, fictitious bullshit. It's not necessary to shag a married man to get clarity on the concept of who is responsible for their personal, voluntary commitments. It's a bit messed up to think it is.

You think someone that knowingly gets together with a married man is perfectly in the clear because it isn't them breaking marriage vows? Bullshit "oh they were sucked in by his lies saying he was GOING to leave his wife" uh huh sure, the correct response would be "OK sorry not interested, maybe hit me up when you actually have" not hanging around like a bad smell and then delivering "her or me" ultimatums when to nobody's surprise, it doesn't happen

I think that when Ben promises you fidelity, it's on Ben to keep his dick in his pants. Not Betty or Clara. You can't hold every woman in the world responsible for Ben's promise to you. And if they are just as responsible as he is, marriage is totally meaningless because it doesn't create a greater obligation to you than some total stranger. If Ben keeps his promise, you've nothing to fear from anyone. He promised you fidelity. It's on him.

I'm not getting sucked further into this derail (I resisted it before) and I know you're far from the first to say it so far, but Christ I am so, so sick of people positing the offensive, ignorant and bullshit notion that you can't put a married man's responsibility on him unless you've shagged one. Just stop it.

@YeahIsaidit people can both be victims and selfish home-wreckers. Those things are not mutually exclusive. Yes, OP is exceptionally selfish and held no regard for anyone but herself, contributing to hurt of multiple people (her boyfriend's wife, their kids, her kids) so it's hard having sympathy for her.

However, she was also abused. Yes, it was specifically her selfishness and tunnel-vision on getting that man that led to her being made fool out of for over a decade, but she thought she was being loving, loyal and helpful to this poor depressed man who was stuck in an unhappy relationship. So it's normal for her to feel really, really hurt.

Yeah definitely but at the same time I think OP needs some professional psychological support. For her kids shake. From one narcissist to a covert narcissist? For 12 years? 12 years….I think she was probably so damaged that wanted to believe him. It can’t be that you don’t see who he is for 12 years…..
I sympathise with the OP, however I feel sorry and my heart breaks for his and her kids. His wife? I think she might be yet another damaged woman. How else would anyone stay with that man. Sympathise with her as well but honestly…it’s so sad that these people are parents. So sad…

@Rania78 absolutely, she needs therapy. This is way too long to be manipulated and lied to like this without realising something is off

By no means was i saying that the guy is innocent, not at all but hooking up and hanging on with a married guy for 12 years doesn't make you a victim or much better than him even though it wasn't you that made a commitment to his wife. Being shocked that a cheating liar is a cheating liar is really really stupid when you knowingly entered the "relationship" aware that he was cheating on and lying to someone else

Your reasoning runs as though responsibility is somehow a finite concept. It isn’t.

Nobody is saying Ben isn’t responsible.

I am not interested in continuing the derail and dilution of married men's responsibility. If his promise to you is only half on him, then it's surprising people aren't more forgiving about infidelity.

Bur if you must insist that every woman in the world is responsible for your Nigel's penis, please at least stop the ignorant, offensive, unintelligent and misogynistic statements that one could reach a different conclusion only by shagging married men. It's really got to stop.

Off you toddle then, Betty.

Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no rebuttal. It's not your fault; it's because there isn't one. I appreciate you've got to try to save the face you never had to lose if you ever espoused this misogynistic and unintelligent viewpoint, but if you can stop doing it in future when you've calmed down enough to think about it, the world will be a slightly less misogynistic place.

Let’s face it, there’s quite a few good relationships out there that were “born” when people were at leaving their bad marriage. Both people left their spouses and went to live a happy life together ( I personally know of a couple of them that worked out well). Personally (but that’s just me) I wouldn’t date someone in the last stages of a bad marriage, and there’s many reasons: 1) I could be completely mislead by some liar (like the OP) and get my heart broken And 2) people who get out of a long marriage usually haven’t healed properly and are looking for a “rebound relationship” to help make themselves feel better.

Dating a married person is a minefield that should be avoided. I’m not judging the OP, again.. there’s genuine good people out there in bad marriages wanting “out”, the OP was terribly unlucky for bumping into a sociopath (it could happen to anyone with the right conman). Her mistake is not giving this man a 3 month deadline then kicking his ass on time, blocking him and moving on with her life. Instead she opted to stay and receive his crumbs.

OP is he in Formula 1 😂

I didn’t think you really meant you weren’t going to stay and derail any longer.

The point these posters were making has nothing to do with misogyny. The point was that if a person ( male OR female) knowingly sleeps with someone they know is married or in a committed relationship that isn’t an open relationship then they contribute to the hurt inflicted on that innocent party. That doesn’t exonerate the person in the relationship and it would apply to any person. Misogyny means contempt of women. This is about contempt of behaviour, irrespective of whether they are male or female. You can’t just throw about the term misogyny and think it defeats every other opinion because we are agreed misogyny isn’t a good thing. It’s got to actually BE misogynistic in the first place.

There's a world of difference between a woman who has no idea a man is married and becomes involved with him unbeknownst to her and a woman who knows a man is married and goes into it with open eyes. That goes the same in gender reverse too.

If the someone really has no idea they can't be held accountable at all and there shouldn't be any judgement or anger towards them, because they've been conned too. If they are fully aware then they do have to take some responsibility for it, maybe not 50/50 but yes some culpability is still there.

It's not hard to say no to married people, most of us have done it at some point in our lives.

I didn’t think you really meant you weren’t going to stay and derail any longer.

No, I meant (and was clear if you read it) the derail about why a man's promises are on him. Not the idea that a woman's position on that matter is dependent on who she has shagged. That's something else and it's ignorant, offensive, misogynistic and unintelligent enough to be worth a few more goes.

I may think you're talking crap but I don't think that as a woman speaking on the topic, your thought processes must be defined by the men you shagged. It's a horrible outlook and, conveniently, gives an excuse not to have to address the points being made.

😂made me laugh.
But i think the fame part is bullshit just lies on her behalf their both liars.

The different treatment is misogynistic.

The way people choose to speak about women who have been the OW is highly misogynistic, people will often deliberately choose the most disgusting degrading language to do so, which they don't do for men.

Sometimes along the lines of you were nothing but just a hole to him to stick his penis in, or he used and discarded you like a piece of trash (that you are).

OM generally are not spoken about in such a way. Women are absolutely torn apart and judged far more harshly for the exact same behaviour as men!

Misogyny is also "Blaming women for conflict and expecting women to maintain social harmony" which many many people do, they think well if women just wouldn't open their legs then men couldn't cheat 🙄

I think you’ll also find there are a great many people who think/ say “ if men could only keep it in their pants;” “ if men could only manage to think with their brain not their penis.”

I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t discriminate between men or women in my distaste for the behaviour.

People do say that, but it's not really degrading to them is it? If anything it gives cheating men an easy out because they just say "it was just sex" or I was "thinking with my dick" and in other words she meant absolutely nothing and was just a hole, but you're the one in my heart and head and the one I have feelings for 🙄She was just nothing, just a hole, could have been anyone.

I don't discriminate in distaste for behaviour, I do however look at other factors and consider them so I don't look at behaviour alone.
In OPs case she was deeply vulnerable when she met this man, that does often impact on behaviour etc.
And often the reason for the vulnerability in women is that the woman was very badly mistreated often by men.

Completely agree, and I think the broader lesson in all of this is - don't wait around for anyone to give you the life you want. Whether it's a lover, a career opportunity, an expected inheritance or gift... Do not ever, ever let time tick on and your life stand still, do not keep yourself at a disadvantage. Only you can make your life happen. It's a good reminder to everyone, usually learnt the hard way. (Though it will be pretty cold comfort to the OP right now).