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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Am in utter shock

756 replies

honeyandbutterontoast · 04/03/2024 02:09

Will start by saying this is an OW thread. So I’m not asking for sympathy, I’m just in utter utter shock.

Twelve years ago I met someone. We were both married. We fell in love (I thought). My DH was a bad man, I’m not excusing myself but he was. I divorced him, took the bare minimum and waited for OM to do the same.

He didn’t. For years it went on, his excuses, so I wouldn’t see him, he begged me to be patient. I was his soulmate, his best friend, etc etc etc. And I loved him so much.

We bought a house together, he decided on completion day that he couldn’t leave her. I was in a financial mess for years over that.

In Oct 22 I gave him an ultimatum (this date is important), he had to leave her or we couldn’t speak anymore (up till this point we emailed and texted multiple times a day). He said he couldn’t leave her, couldn’t be without his kids. He went away on holiday with them.

Stupidly we stayed in touch “as friends”. Daily he would ask to see me. He would tell me he wanted to be with me, no matter what would make it happen.

(Sorry this is an essay)

Last spring we saw each other for lunch a couple of times. Something was off but I couldn’t work out what, he seemed depressed. I started dating again and told him we could only be friends.

In the summer he sent me a photo and I noticed he didn’t have a wedding ring on! He told me he had “recently” left his wife but didn’t know how to tell me. That he wasn’t sure if we should move in together straight away (!!) or just get to know each other as single people.

We met for lunch a couple of times, he had endless excuses why I couldn’t see his new flat. It all seemed odd but somehow plausible. We last saw each other in October but carried on messaging multiple times a day, chatting about everything. Or so I thought.

He told me he was very depressed and unhappy. Needed time to get used to life alone. I truly believed he was unhappy, possibly even suicidal at times.

This evening I received a message. From his girlfriend. Who he lives with. Who he had told he was separated when he met her 18 months ago. Yep when I gave him the ultimatum, he was with her. They have a whole life together.

She is 20 years younger than he is.

We spoke on the phone and while speaking she was looking through his phone. There are multiple women. All that age. It’s been going on for years with them.

How he has time to run a company I do not know.

So here I am, 12 years on. In utter shock. And that poor girl. I didn’t know what to say to her, I could only assure her there has been nothing intimate between us since before she met him. Unfortunately he has been with others.

i honestly would have told you he was my best friend. His behaviour had been odd yes, but I never thought for a moment it was like this.

His last messages to me were how he had an okay day today, hadn’t done much. They are on holiday!!!

I get that in some ways I deserve this. But she doesn’t. He obviously was putting his wedding ring on to meet me! How messed up is that. Or maybe he wasn’t married then anymore?!

And I’m guessing when we were actually in an intimate relationship he was shagging these other women. I really had no idea. He would beg me not to leave him as he was so unhappy but had no idea how to leave without losing his children/business.

Desperately need to sleep but had to get all that out. It’s like an episode of eastenders.

OP posts:
Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:14

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:13

I read it as the wife and current girlfriend and so did other posters. The fact is that meanings sometimes get lost in the text and things come across as different from the posters’ intent. Why are you so angry ? Projecting ?

Show quote history

And here's another angry one 😂

Nanalisa60 · 04/03/2024 15:15

Well that’s a man who has been given his cake and eaten it !! He has been playing you all for fools including his wife.

I,m sorry Op But you really should not have played second fiddle to anyone, that’s the best bit of advice my Nan ever gave me and it’s what I tell my dg .

Never play second fiddle to anyone. If you are not no. one in a man’s life then onwards and upwards.

Any way if there is any karma he will end up a very lonely old man. But I doubt it as he seems a very good player.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:16

pikkumyy77 · 04/03/2024 15:11

I think something that needs to be pointed out here is that socially and financially OP has perceived herself as punching above her weight. From the get go this creates a lot of space for abuse and submissive/foolish behavior on the part of the victim (OP).

OP probably accepted a lot of the secrecy and the absurd financial improprieties because she thought of her ex as “so special” that he needed protection by her and also that he was so wealthy that “buying a house for her” was both no big deal And a natural reward for protecting him and serving this important man.

Many of the same dynamics can occur when the position s are reversed as in the case if Constance Martens. Vulnerable people are easily manipulated and turn abusers into hero/victims in their minds.

OP was a scam victim and like a lot of cons the con starts by getting the mark to do something immoral or illegal with the con man so that they become partners in crime.

The affair was the start of the con.

Agree with this. But I think in a way her marriage was the start of the con. An abusive ex likely conditioned OP to think of herself as inferior. Although that explains her behaviour, it doesn’t absolve her of the next twelve years, because, reading through her posts, she has some insight, but even now doesn’t appear to want to take responsibility for her part in all of this. She’s vulnerable to the same type of abuse if she doesn’t get herself some help, and soon.

fruity81 · 04/03/2024 15:21

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:14

And here's another angry one 😂

Show quote history

in your own words

Why is it angry people always default to cliched lines like 'you sound so angry'

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:22

fruity81 · 04/03/2024 15:21

in your own words

Why is it angry people always default to cliched lines like 'you sound so angry'

Show quote history

Yes, I was responding to the person defaulting to the 'you are so angry' cliche. What of it?

pam290358 · 04/03/2024 15:24

pikkumyy77 · 04/03/2024 13:38

The mistake all these hysterical karma-mongers are making is that OP didn’t “tear his first wife’s life apart” at all. He did. OP didn’t steal the wife’s cake. The OP was content with crumbs from the table. The man called the tune that all the women danced to. The important lesson to learn here is not (simply) not to be the OW but to learn to avoid con men/narcissists/sociopaths. And that is very hard to do because they are very clever and very plausible. And they change up their story to seduce each target. So if one victim is too moral to start with a married man they will say they are separated, or on the verge of divorce, or need hope to leave an abusive wife. They tailor their bait to the kind of fish they want to catch.

Show quote history

What utter bollox. According to her posts she knew he was married with a family, she knew exactly what she was doing and didn’t care about the effect on his wife and kids. Stop making excuses for bad behaviour - they’re both to blame.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:26

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:22

Yes, I was responding to the person defaulting to the 'you are so angry' cliche. What of it?

Show quote history

It was genuinely not a default comment - you sound angry, and defensive of the fact that you made a mistake calling out another poster after you misunderstood her comment. Show me where my comment was in any way angry ?

whatsitcalledwhen · 04/03/2024 15:28

@Untethered

If you read your posts back do you honestly not think you sound angry? Goodness.

And I didn't say 'have a nice day'. I said you'd have a nicer one if you stressed less. Because you're getting really stressed about a stranger's thread on Mumsnet.

Your responses on the thread have been disproportionately annoyed and derailed it, but I've contributed to that derailing by responding to you.

So I'll leave it there 🤷🏻‍♀️

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:35

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:26

It was genuinely not a default comment - you sound angry, and defensive of the fact that you made a mistake calling out another poster after you misunderstood her comment. Show me where my comment was in any way angry ?

Edited
Show quote history

Since you called me angry, can you please show me where my comment was angry? Because I genuinely think it's you, not me. There was no mistake, there was a post that you are pretending that you undertood in line with the poster's backtracked and back-pedalled meaning. It's disingenuous.

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:36

whatsitcalledwhen · 04/03/2024 15:28

@Untethered

If you read your posts back do you honestly not think you sound angry? Goodness.

And I didn't say 'have a nice day'. I said you'd have a nicer one if you stressed less. Because you're getting really stressed about a stranger's thread on Mumsnet.

Your responses on the thread have been disproportionately annoyed and derailed it, but I've contributed to that derailing by responding to you.

So I'll leave it there 🤷🏻‍♀️

Can you show me which of my posts is angry? You are the one saying you're annoyed, so I'd suggest you're the angry one 🤷🏻‍♀️

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:40

Over40Overdating · 04/03/2024 13:15

I don’t think OP has to go to the media but the threat that she might will be enough to keep him away from her. But only if she shows she’s no longer the doormat he thinks and shows the anger he’s never seen and not the sympathy and loyalty he relies on. Nothing will sort him out faster because men like this are weak.

As to the moral code crew, life has a funny way of delivering the karma you so love, to everyone, eventually, even those who think their superiority will save them from it.

The women who want to lambast the other woman more than the married man are very often the spouses of the men who are cheating, because they know they’ll get less shit for it than those awful other women. If you all knew how many and how openly married men are on apps, you’d change your tune about it being the other women who are the problem. Sure those women don’t have to engage with them but the crux of the matter is the men shouldn’t be on there in the first place. The men ARE the problem.

So OW are not to blame ? Even for choosing men who are openly married on online apps ? How does that work ? In order for a married man to cheat he has to find a woman who is open to it, who chooses to disregard the fact that he has a wife and family, and who doesn’t give a second thought to how it would feel. Until it happens to them. Which is what’s happened to the OP. She feels remorse and responsibility towards this shitbags’ girlfriend, but none for the wife and family she’s facilitated him cheating on for twelve years. OK then.

And just for clarity, to my knowledge, I’ve never been cheated on.

laclochette · 04/03/2024 15:42

OP - I don't think you are heeding this advice but just in case
DO NOT go to the media You will not come out well. They will play you for whatever the most salacious story is, and you would be judged in the court of public opinion.

DO NOT threaten him with going to the media in exchange for some form of financial reparations. This is literally blackmail and you could find yourself in very very hot legal water.

I seriously doubt you have any legal claim on the grounds of emotional distress and also remember the courts are not a place of moral reparation. They do not give closure. Legal process is stressful and expensive and by the time it's done even if you do win, you often feel broken by the experience. This would not serve you.

Cut your losses. Lick your wounds. Face forward not back.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:42

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:36

Can you show me which of my posts is angry? You are the one saying you're annoyed, so I'd suggest you're the angry one 🤷🏻‍♀️

Show quote history

Well now, you’re just not reading posts properly are you ? I asked you which of my posts you found to be angry, not @whatsitcalledwhen

ZoeCM · 04/03/2024 15:42

I hate the way MN infantilises women. Men who cheat on their partners are scumbags; women who cheat do so because their partner neglected them. Men who have affairs with married women are manipulators who take advantage of lonely women; women who have affairs with married men are victims who got "sucked in" by his lies.

It's anti-feminist. No one on MN would say that a woman should be denied a promotion, for example, because "we women aren't in control of our actions, we're too easily manipulated, we're weak". Portraying women as perpetual damsels in distress harms us all.

The OP was perfectly happy to collude in this man's deception of his wife for twelve years. Now she's learned he was deceiving her as well, and she doesn't like it. It's the classic meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face," sobs woman who voted for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

DetOliviaBenson · 04/03/2024 15:44

I don't mean to kick you when you're down OP, but honestly how can you be shocked by this? This is a man who has no problem cheating on his wife and stringing you along for 12 YEARS! How can you not see what a charlatan he is?

Maybe now would be a good time to work on yourself? Your self-esteem and self-worth and try and work out why you were so gullible for so long.

DetOliviaBenson · 04/03/2024 15:45

ZoeCM · 04/03/2024 15:42

I hate the way MN infantilises women. Men who cheat on their partners are scumbags; women who cheat do so because their partner neglected them. Men who have affairs with married women are manipulators who take advantage of lonely women; women who have affairs with married men are victims who got "sucked in" by his lies.

It's anti-feminist. No one on MN would say that a woman should be denied a promotion, for example, because "we women aren't in control of our actions, we're too easily manipulated, we're weak". Portraying women as perpetual damsels in distress harms us all.

The OP was perfectly happy to collude in this man's deception of his wife for twelve years. Now she's learned he was deceiving her as well, and she doesn't like it. It's the classic meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face," sobs woman who voted for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

Agreed.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:46

ZoeCM · 04/03/2024 15:42

I hate the way MN infantilises women. Men who cheat on their partners are scumbags; women who cheat do so because their partner neglected them. Men who have affairs with married women are manipulators who take advantage of lonely women; women who have affairs with married men are victims who got "sucked in" by his lies.

It's anti-feminist. No one on MN would say that a woman should be denied a promotion, for example, because "we women aren't in control of our actions, we're too easily manipulated, we're weak". Portraying women as perpetual damsels in distress harms us all.

The OP was perfectly happy to collude in this man's deception of his wife for twelve years. Now she's learned he was deceiving her as well, and she doesn't like it. It's the classic meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face," sobs woman who voted for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

This. All day long.

fruity81 · 04/03/2024 15:48

ZoeCM · 04/03/2024 15:42

I hate the way MN infantilises women. Men who cheat on their partners are scumbags; women who cheat do so because their partner neglected them. Men who have affairs with married women are manipulators who take advantage of lonely women; women who have affairs with married men are victims who got "sucked in" by his lies.

It's anti-feminist. No one on MN would say that a woman should be denied a promotion, for example, because "we women aren't in control of our actions, we're too easily manipulated, we're weak". Portraying women as perpetual damsels in distress harms us all.

The OP was perfectly happy to collude in this man's deception of his wife for twelve years. Now she's learned he was deceiving her as well, and she doesn't like it. It's the classic meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face," sobs woman who voted for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

superb post

Usernamechange1234 · 04/03/2024 15:49

ZoeCM · 04/03/2024 15:42

I hate the way MN infantilises women. Men who cheat on their partners are scumbags; women who cheat do so because their partner neglected them. Men who have affairs with married women are manipulators who take advantage of lonely women; women who have affairs with married men are victims who got "sucked in" by his lies.

It's anti-feminist. No one on MN would say that a woman should be denied a promotion, for example, because "we women aren't in control of our actions, we're too easily manipulated, we're weak". Portraying women as perpetual damsels in distress harms us all.

The OP was perfectly happy to collude in this man's deception of his wife for twelve years. Now she's learned he was deceiving her as well, and she doesn't like it. It's the classic meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face," sobs woman who voted for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

Yes… absolutely!

OP had personal agency, she CHOSE to believe the BS because it suited her.

Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:49

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2024 15:42

Well now, you’re just not reading posts properly are you ? I asked you which of my posts you found to be angry, not @whatsitcalledwhen

Show quote history

Yet another examle of your anger, accusing me of not reading properly, when it's you not doing so. If you read @whatsitcalledwhen 's post she says 'If you read your posts back do you honestly not think you sound angry?', so I asked her which of my posts was angry.

Jl2014 · 04/03/2024 15:50

OP, you have got to stop beating yourself up about this. This guy has done a number on you. I imagine he was very genuine. The lies are just awful and sounds incredibly manipulative. You made a mistake and you’ve paid the price. You don’t deserve to keep suffering and don’t let people tell you that you do. I’m sorry for the situation you find yourself in. Time is a great healer and I hope that once you get over this that you can find some peace and happiness. I think you deserve it after what you have been through at the hands of such a soulless bastard.

Original poster
honeyandbutterontoast · 04/03/2024 15:53

Fun twist
shes sent me messages from him where he claims I was blackmailing him and he had to keep messaging me and meeting me to keep me happy

OP posts:
Untethered · 04/03/2024 15:54

Jl2014 · 04/03/2024 15:50

OP, you have got to stop beating yourself up about this. This guy has done a number on you. I imagine he was very genuine. The lies are just awful and sounds incredibly manipulative. You made a mistake and you’ve paid the price. You don’t deserve to keep suffering and don’t let people tell you that you do. I’m sorry for the situation you find yourself in. Time is a great healer and I hope that once you get over this that you can find some peace and happiness. I think you deserve it after what you have been through at the hands of such a soulless bastard.

I agree with this. No one can beat OP up as much as she has beaten herself.

NonPlayerCharacter · 04/03/2024 15:55

honeyandbutterontoast · 04/03/2024 15:53

Fun twist
shes sent me messages from him where he claims I was blackmailing him and he had to keep messaging me and meeting me to keep me happy

OP, now you've seen this, and in addition to the failed house purchase...what other red flags and klaxons do you see in hindsight?

And why exactly could you never let go?

pikkumyy77 · 04/03/2024 15:55

honeyandbutterontoast · 04/03/2024 15:53

Fun twist
shes sent me messages from him where he claims I was blackmailing him and he had to keep messaging me and meeting me to keep me happy

Well you can’t be surprised at this point. He has been spinning these plates for so long that is all he can do.