DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

@SadandStressed3 don't beat yourself up. Most of what you describe sounds like normal family life. I am the eldest of four considerable age gaps. Did my mother treat me differently to my youngest brother? Yep. She was older and knackered and a bit.... done.

My advice would be give her space and let her come to you. Don't badger or make her your universe. She is acting like a petulant toddler. Take each day as it comes. If she wants to be with the family at holidays etc she has to be reasonable and tolerant.

Don't keep putting your hand in your pocket. Let her see what you do for her. Imagine life with no support or family? Not a nice reality.

You have my sympathy. I have a friend with a daughter like yours who is 30 and makes her life hell. My friend is still accommodating, goes above and beyond and it's thrown back in her face. Her crime.... given her a happy middle class upbringing.

Have a hug. Sounds like your doing well.

Wow she has some mental health issues.
She can do what she wants but she can't have it all. Cut ties 0 support and 0 housing. Make her own way and learn the hard way.
Seems like she was very spoiled.

Coming from a family with 3 other siblings no one complains about not having enough time with DM & DD.

She sounds manipulative and calculative. I wouldn't be allowing her to come home or sending money if that's was my grown ask child.

CAMHS,have a waiting list of years
They don't see children for " drama "
What was the real reason She was referred to them

But at the same time, many mothers have PND and their children dont round saying how awful their childhood has been and wanting to cut ties.

I wouldn’t underestimate it but I also wouldn’t assume it has left deep emotional scars that said child simply can’t get over.

Are your other 2 children really close to each other? Could it be that she has not healed from the initial trauma of your other children being born and the intense jealousy at the time?

So she was deeply attached to you before they were born and then that attachment was broken because you had PND and were busy with babies so you were absent in her mind, even when you were with her? Have you offered to do therapy and inner child work with her?

I would be looking into attachment disorders in highly sensitive children.

OP you are getting a hard time from some posters here. I think you are being treated horribly by your daughter, who clearly took umbrage at no longer being an only child and has never got over it. Whilst you had PND life might not have been ideal. But it equally doesn't sound awful as you have described it. You have apologised for that and you should be punished for being unwell forever.
My older sister is much the same as your daughter. She was from my dad's first marriage and her mum sadly died when she was 2. She sadly can't remember her own mum. 3 years later when she was 5 he got together with my Mum, and 15 years later when she was 20 they had me. She has never got over her dislike of my mum, (because she wasn't her own mum), despite my Mum raising her as her own-or of me, because I 'took her dad away'. She was at nursing college in London when I was born-so it's unclear how I managed to do this. She would say she had a terrible childhood. The truth of it, according to relatives on both Dads side and her deceased Mothers (with whom both my dad and mum have maintained close relationships for my sisters sake), is apparently rather different. She was given help to go to nursing college, a deposit for a flat, a car, not one but two weddings paid for. She claims I was treated better because I went to uni, with help from my parents. She ended up a qualified nurse over a three year course-I ended up a social worker which by then was a degree course-her choice to become a nurse but somehow it's every else's fault she didn't get a degree and it's clear evidence that I am favoured.

My mum has slightly given up now-my sister is 63. She is polite to her and loving to her kids as a grandma should be. No more than that. My dad has also recently reached the end of his tether as it's been decades of pandering to her and he has had enough at 94 and can no longer summon the energy.

He says he wished he'd told her straight when she was younger as indulging her and Ignoring her behaviour as he did- has made her worse.

Re.CAMHS a friend of mine went through similar with her dd, my godchild, who after lockdown took up with a bad crowd, and ended up drinking too much, skipping school and getting bullied. CAMHS saw her 6 weeks, during which time all her issues were blamed on her mum and dad (they were too strict and should have chosen their battles and let her vape, smoke, drink, use drugs and go out at all hours , at 14, without remark, was the jist of it) and she was then discharged as she didn't need them any longer. Three years later, with new friends and doing really well, she freely says she was just being a dickhead and she is a bit mortified by her own behaviour. Not all CAMHS involvement = severe mental health issues/abuse and their reading of situations is not always 💯 correct either.

Dear DD, We are getting the impression you want nothing to do with us and although that makes us really sad we respect your decision if you are certain right now. We will continue to pay you x amount while you are at uni as we had always intended to do, and hope you are willing to accept this.
So except for emergencies (and probably birthdays!) we won't contact you again if you prefer. Please do know that we love you very much and always did our best for you and we will be so happy to hear from you again, or to talk this through if you want to.
Onwards and upwards, you will do amazing things
Mum and Dad x

Tell your daughter you are taking onboard what she says and you will work to process it. Respect her wishes. The go to therapy yourself and explore.

I say this because firstly, I think we are only getting part of the story, and secondly, you sound very dismissive towards her perception and struggles and like to point out how hard you had it etc. This is material for your therapist, not your daughter. If you continue to think and speak like in your first post here you will loose her forever.

It's always the mother's fault, isn't it? Does she blame her father to the same extent for her 'miserable, toxic' childhood?

OP, I grew up with a mother with severe mental health issues who was at times utterly incapable of meeting my needs. It was sometimes bloody awful and yes, it's left its emotional scars on me and sometimes I feel really sad about it all, but I don't blame her for any of that. She was ill.

I don't doubt that you've made mistakes because we all do as parents. I don't doubt that there were also elements of her childhood she disliked / found difficult. I do find it interesting that your dd still expects financial support and a roof over her head even though she ostensibly doesn't want anything to do with you.

I don't have much advice beyond what's been already offered but fwiw I think you're getting a hard time from some posters who seem unable to be objective about your experience. I don't think you sound cold at all.

There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year.

My sympathy for you expired when you minimised being under CAMHS for a year as "teen drama".

I think this sort of stuff is one of the hardest parts of being a teen parent. We know as adults we are just juggling a whole range of priorities that teens just do not fully understand as they are protected from that level of responsibility.
I think you can only do what you can do - I would continue to pay what you are paying and let her come home etc when she wants to. Adult life will give her the perspective she needs - and if your door is always open - she will come back when she has emotionally matured.

OMG stop all the smother mother texting that's just weird.

I would also look into inattentive adhd.

It's often the case that the younger ones 'get away' with more

You're practising on the eldest. Hopefully you know more by the time others come along

I was the eldest yep I ploughed the strict furrow, things slacked off with two younger siblings probably because my parents were more confident.

Your daughter needs to get over herself.

You in the meantime are obsessing over your eldest. How do you think your younger offspring feel about this? I'd be pretty hacked off over the golden child you're making such a fuss over.

Send this if you want to lose your daughter forever OP.

It's been said by others already but red flags are going up reading your posts. The dismissive language, the casual reference to being under CAHMS as 'teen drama.' Then the listing of things you've done for her - which are pretty much 'I don't know why she's upset, we took her to stately homes.' In fact, read the stately homes thread, it may prove illuminating for you.

When I was a teen, I suffered from depression and anxiety because of home problems. My mother (and stepfather) minimised the whole thing and still do, making it all out to be my problem for being difficult and selfish. So yeah, red flags a-plenty reading your post, as I'm sure it's pretty close to what my mum would have written when I was at university. I ended up just staying at university and not going home, even though I absolutely hated university.

Try listening to your daughter and treating what she's saying as valid, you might learn something.

YABU to dismiss what must have been severe mental health problems as "teen drama".
YA also BU to think that, just because you see people who have had it worse, your daughter has no trauma.

So I fully agree with you re listening to the dd - which btw the OP is totally open to.

But could you explain why the proposed message is the best way to lose her dd?
Genuine question as the dd is saying she wants to cut ties and this would be doing exactly what she is asking for - aka for me it would be listening to her and what she wants. I suspect that the poster proposing that is thinking along the same lines. So why is it bad?

The problem with some counselling is that the person being counselled in some forms of therapy is encouraged to represent their world and feelings about events without being encouraged to see the world of others. Yes, there were things about her childhood that were difficult for her but you were doing your best as a loving mother. A rounded picture of events helps in our understanding. She is a bright girl so hopefully she will see the truth in that at some point. All you can do is point out your truths, perhaps in writing to give her time to reflect, tell her you love her,and wait. Good luck.

I doubt ops dd had severe mental health problems, more likely that op managed to pull some strings to get her seen by cahms. Take a step back op, you’ve offered support and your dd has declined. Leave her to figure things out for herself. Too many posters here are projecting their issues on to you.

Your daughter sounds vulnerable and unhappy. I wouldnt take the advice of some punitive posters on here and cut her off completely- that could have some horrible unintended consequences.
If she is autistic she will be emotionally and mentally much younger than her chronological age.

I did not refer to the CAMHS stuff as teen drama. I’m sorry if it read that way. I meant them as two separate things. There was teen drama (hated how she looked even though she’s beautiful plus regular dramatic falling out with teachers and friends) and in addition to this or maybe alongside it was the CAMHS stuff. I don’t minimise it-I was the one who used my contacts to get her seen in the hope of helping her. Of validating her feelings. When she’d say she was ugly I’d say she wasn’t, she was beautiful but if she was unhappy I’d do what I could to help. I hoped I was validating her feelings by not just dismissing them but asking how I could help. Even though, objectively speaking, she’s a very attractive young woman.

It sounds to me like she's struggling at University with all sorts of self doubt and trying to pinpoint why she she feels that way and is blaming her parents because she's still a child and attached to you as she's still in education

Just be there for her unconditionally for now that's all you can do really

So OP; very interesting that when we're talking validation you only bring up her saying she was ugly. Did you validate her feelings when she said "How she was belittled and unloved"?

Interesting also that she complains you gaslight her.