DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

If it breaks your heart that she seems unhappy and you are happy to do something about it then I can offer some advice.

You are saying that you have been trying to support her. You have thrown parties for her, painted bedrooms for her, been to shows that you don't like for her.

What you need to do now is ask her what support SHE wants. Don't offer when you want to give.

And then when she says, just do it.

Even if she says I don't like the brand of tea you buy, you say would you like to come to the shops and choose one?

If she says I hate being left out then you say what can I do to make you feel included?

If she says I'm scared of XX because I remember a really bad row you and dad had over it then you say, no problem let's get rid of that stupid ornament.

So you listen.

Your PND will have affected her deeply and she will still be dealing with that today. Do not under estimate the impact of maternal mental health issues on children.

Because she's 19 and doesn't know what else to do? And it sounds like she is protecting herself as much as she can by shutting herself away.

Plenty of women in abusive relationships who don't leave their partners.

Do you think some of her feelings are actually about being terrified of growing up and becoming independent? So she’s hyper focused on the birth of her siblings taking away her parents attention and money, but actually a big part of these feelings is actually just that she’s scared to start being more grown up, an adult now and to be in charge of herself?
Have you told her that university is a time to be selfish. Not in a bad way. But it’s the time in her life she gets to be in control of all her own decisions but she is not yet responsible for anyone else. It’s normal at her life stage to care for friends and lovers but not to be responsible for them or anyone other than herself. So tell her you’re her safety net. You’re going to keep supporting her and you are always there anytime she needs to talk or to come and stay at your house or help or advice, but that it’s right that she wants to spend less time thinking about her family and more time going out into the world on her own or with friends. Send her an email every week with a little bit of home news and a ´hope you’re having fun and doing well’ message and don’t worry about her not calling home.
If she keeps bringing up her sibling jealousy then acknowledge her feelings but don’t capitulate and tell her she’s right and your regret having her siblings. It’s not true and it’s not a useful way to think about the situation.

If she's formally estranged from her parents she'll be eligible for more student finance. I wonder if she knows this.

It sounds to me like you had poor mental health (PND) and she also has poor mental health (depression, anxiety). Both hormonally induced.

She did not like school. It sounds like she genuinely had a miserable time from age 7 onwards. Is she happier in herself now? If so, I would focus on that. And just tell her how proud you are that she is happier and that you want her to heal.

By your own admission more children made life more stressful and you also treated them with more leniency. I don't think it's self indulgence that this resulted in negative feelings given she was a child when she was made to feel like this.

In most adult environments it's OK to feel wronged if people dismiss the negative impact of their actions. Why is parenting exempt? "Because that's just being an older sibling"? You made choices as an adult that had a negative impact on her.

You can't change it but you can own it without making her feel wrong for feeling that way. Until you fully accept this is a problem in its own right and not just "her problem" and explaining it away, it's a lost cause.

None of us are perfect and none of us know how closely your daughter’s beliefs or your account match any objective view of her childhood/your family life even if such a thing were available.

Let’s assume your view is reasonably accurate.

What does your husband think? What is her relationship like with her siblings or other family members? I do wonder about ASD but also an immaturity in understanding relationships and the complexity of real life, eg you had severe PND after a third child, the child might have been planned but the illness wasn’t and so you just had to manage it and mitigate the impact on everyone as best you could. That’s real life and not for you to apologise for but for both of you to acknowledge as having been tricky. Can she do that? She strikes me as emotionally in a much younger space, which may be ASD but may not be.

I’d suggest saying: I’m so sorry you feel like that, sometimes events are hard/have an impact on another person greater than you’d expect etc. If we can now make life and our relationship better by eg joint therapy etc, let’s do that. If it’s not something you feel ready for that’s ok, I’ll always be here if you are. Then remain in contact with her, low demand eg text only with an offer to call if she’d like, when she’s at Uni. In holidays welcome her back and reiterate the offer of joint therapy etc.

I wouldn’t however prostrate myself at her and beg for her love, though I expect that’s hard not to do. I think being consistently kind, listening and acknowledging an impact on her even unintended and even if it feels disproportionate to events is ok. But don’t let yourself feel bullied into becoming an emotional punch bag for her.

Also read more re neurodiversity, it could well be relevant.

There's something deeply disturbing about the way whatever the OP says, it is used by some posters as evidence against her.

She's suffering from Childhood Emotional Neglect.

Could you elaborate about the CAHMS involvement OP?

Have you met her?

She sounds utterly self centered and thoroughly indulged.

I'd said, 'OK. Whatever you want,' and leave her to it. The financial support would stop. If she's old enough to decide you are an evil woman and to blame for everything in her life then she can stand on her own two feet.

This generation of teenagers seem to believe they are the centre of the entire universe and everyone should dance round them. Life doesn't work like that. If you are ill and dealing with younger children then sometime the older one does have to grow up and stand on their own two feet a bit more.

You sound an excellent parent and a decent person. Life isn't perfect. FWIW I'd have loved a childhood like hers - mine was FAR more toxic.

Tell her you’re cutting her out of the will and see what happens 🤣. Sorry I couldn’t resist after reading so many posts recently of women who sound just like your daughter in twenty years time getting cut out of wills as they’ve built an amazing life for themselves and have plenty of money.

I think you need to accept she is a disagreeable personality. Will probably earn an awful lot of money because of this and have a materially successful life , but that might be at the expense of social and familial relationships. There’s a good chance she’ll grow up and move back into your orbit, so keeping the door open after you let her go is vital.

It seems people keep projecting their own negative experiences and attack the OP for the faults of their own parents.

You sound very dismissive of her feelings and experiences. So that doesn't put you in good stead really. If you were like this with her growing up I can imagine that was hard for her.

Sounds like youve done enough and been a good mum op. Dont beat yourself up about this write that letter, emphasise your own difficulties as well over the years and then be silent. If shes hell bent on stopping contact so be it but you've been supportive to her.

hopefully when she has to fend for herself, has her own family etc she might appreciate how much you did for her. She sounds like a spoilt attention seeking child imo

Completely agree.

There's 7 years between me and my Ds and I absolutely detested her and hated the fact that I wasn't an only child anymore.

My mother was a lot more lenient with my sister than she was with me, I was grounded more and had to be in earlier but now I have my own kids I realise that we don't always get things right first time around.

I too spent most of my childhood under a psychiatrist, various reasons for this but all leading back to the same problem. However I don't blame my parents for any of this or how my life has turned out. Without sounding harsh she does sound like a brat and I really don't understand why some people are pushing the blame on you OP.

But surely, if the OP let go of her dd, then the OP is also not financing Uni anymore? Nor is the dd ‘coming back home’ during the hols?

Right?

Because if I wanted to cut ties with my parents, then that’s what I would do…
So it looks to me that, despite all the talk, it’s the dd who doesn’t actually want to cut the ties….

Does she actually want her siblings to go on toddler focused holidays now they are older because she had to?
Does she really expect you not to change your parenting based on what works for each child?

I am the eldest of 3 with the same age gaps between me and my siblings. Growing up I also resented my siblings because everything Centred around the little 2. We couldn’t afford holidays but as soon as I was 18 the little 2 were taken abroad and I stayed home because they could afford it as a family of 4. Little ones were treated as kids but I was treated as an adult from when I was about 12 onwards. When they turned 12 they were very much treated as the kids they were. I had the responsibilities of looking after them, driving them places, they had no worries or responsibilities in their teens. In fact I was still expected to be their taxi even when I’d left home!

all in all, I relate to a lot of what your daughter probably feels. I made the decision to have only 2 kids with a smaller gap so they didn’t have the same situation as me and I make sure to treat them the same and not put all the responsibility on the eldest.

i have not ever really mentioned this to my parents because I wouldn’t want to lose my relationship with them and because now we’re all in our 30s we are (finally) treated more equally. Your daughter might just be extra resentful right now because she knows that when she was ypir youngest’s age the expectations and life she had are so different from your theirs. This might fade as she gets older

she doesn’t get to cut contact and also demand funding and full board though OP. She either goes one way or the other

Yep.

And that’s always the case when a late teen/young adult decides to ‘cut ties’ like that. Always the fault of the parents or rather the mother who hasn’t been good enough…. Even down to daring being ill!

I would approach this by first saying:

DD, I’m am so deeply sorry you feel the way you, if I could go back in time and prevent all the things that have hurt you I would, but that isn’t possible so sadly I can’t. What I can do is tell you that I am sorry, I did what I thought was best at the time, I genuinely was parenting you and your siblings the best way I know how, I never did things with the intention of hurting you, or for things to feel unfair to you, I just did the best I could and accept that this was not perfect and that I am not perfect. I love you, always have and always will no matter what, you made me a mum and I love you more than I can ever even explain and I’m sorry if that hasn’t been obvious to you, but it is the truth. I can’t change the past, but we can change the future and so I ask what can I do, is there anything I can do to help heal our relationship?

I would start with the above before I would consider cutting her off financially or anything else. You may have already had this conversation with her, or a version of it. The key I think is to apologise for the past (not saying that you’ve don’t anything wrong, but you can still be genuinely sorry for things that have hurt he no matter whether those things were right or wrong) acknowledge that the past has gone and can’t be changed, try to focus on the future and what you can do to heal.

Ultimately you can do all of the above and sadly things will remain as they are, but you will have made the effort to mend things. Sometimes there is nothing can do but reassure them that you love them, and will always be there for them no matter the passage of time, let them go and just hope that one day they come back and let you back in.

@SnapCrackleandStop, this was something a friend said too and I have spoken to DD and said I’m open to discussing anything with her. Me listening and acknowledging even if blaming her siblings seems irrational, it’s still how she feels.

I have two older sisters, the oldest being about 5 years older. We have a good relationship however my oldest sister's relationship with my mum took a nosedive during the teen years. Mostly due to a divorce, but we recently had a conversation where she felt the rules were much stricter for her than in comparison to me. This was true.

Her perspective on it was that my mum took out the 'hard parenting' on her, then mellowed her approach when it came to the younger siblings. This caused resentment. Can you reflect and see if this may have happened, even if not intended? Perhaps compare scenarios at similar ages- for example bedtimes- are they the same or have you been more lenient for the younger ones?

A lot of little slights could build up to a lot, so perhaps that's where your DD is coming from? It may not have been malicious and you were just parenting the best way you could at the time, but perhaps you unconsciously were stricter with her than her siblings as a result?