DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

First reply has nailed it. She sounds spoilt and self-indulgent. I would make it clear that you're sorry she feels that way but if she wishes to go NC, that means financial support stops too.

What's her relationship like with her dad?

It sounds like she's struggled a lot the past few years. It's not at all unusual for young people to have mental health issues and be struggling and have a hard time launching into adulthood or figuring out their relationships with their parents as an adult. I think she's using the best language she can find to describe what she feels was a tough few years as a child. No doubt you had your own mental health struggles for many years and this has clearly had an impact on her. I would hate for someone to label your PND as being spoiled and entitled. It was hard for you and no doubt hard for her, and she's also coming of age in a tricky few years. I don't think a one to one trip once a year and a redecorated bedroom amount to 'spoiling' - that sounds like just normal parenting to me.

Instead of trying to place blame and label it, why not just accept she needs a bit of space to try out adult life without a parent involved? Keep the lines of communication open and keep a safe place for her to land. But I think it's okay that she doesn't want to communicate much when she's away at uni. Let her live her life and be there if she needs anything. I think to an extent this is part of normal growing up and you are placing labels on it and trying to apportion blame or maybe taking too personally how she is trying to say she needs a bit of space.

All that being said, my mum would probably say the same about me - and in fact, she has, giving people long lists of things she bought me or money she gave me years ago as proof of how entitled I am. My childhood, while materially well off, was quite dysfunctional due to her mental health issues and instability and weird and unhealthy boundaries. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees as a parent when you are in it and trying to make sense of doing the best you can for your children.

What was the CAMHS stuff about? That sounds quite instrumental.

This.

There are so many different ways to see this from.

1. we can only judge the situation based on the information you’ve given
2. she was getting support from camhs, so there must be something. Not necessarily to do with you, but there’s something there that’s creating this narrative for her.
3. if she truly felt her childhood was toxic and she wants to cut ties from yourselves, then she would also cut the financial and accommodation ties. If you want to cut ties from toxic family.. you wouldn’t cut some of the string and leave a couple of threads.
4. taking her clothes shopping and redoing her bedroom don’t prove she had a good childhood. Thinking it does does seem a little off to me.

you could cut ties, but I wouldn’t be continuing the financial support and I would be suggesting they find somewhere else to stay during holidays. Obviously doing this is going to completely break your relationship no doubt. It sounds like she’s testing you, to see how easy it would be for you to cut ties with her.

Either that or she has a controlling boyfriend who’s trying to isolate her.

This ^ . The mention of doing her bedroom when she was 14 reminds me of posts by estranged mothers of adult children I’ve read on other sites.

Hmmm my family situation was almost exactly the same as your DDs, same age gap, illness after siblings arrived. As a result I was pretty much left to fend for myself emotionally I have realized as an adult. We had no financial worries out of the ordinary, I was encouraged in my studies, my room was decorated.
But I don't recall either parent actually spending any time with me, asking me about myself/my life/,my friends, telling me they loved me etc.

My DM was never emotionally supportive and I would never have gone to her with a problem/for advice. I appreciate that it was a tough time for my parents and I was old enough to get on with things but... I don't rely on my parents for anything emotional.

Maybe your DD had that experience too ? And now she can't rely on you emotionally?

I would put money on her being on the autistic spectrum.

It's so hard to know what has actually gone on here.

You said she'd been under CAMHS. Has she been assessed for autism?

Thank you, everyone.
For everyone asking about CAMHS. 6yrs ago, it was easier to access than it is now. She was saying she was depressed and seemed to be exhibiting symptoms of depression. Through work, I managed to get her an appointment through our clinician. (I’d have zero chance of that these days as the wait is horrendous although in our area it is very well funded and less wait that in neighbouring authorities)
It appeared to be two fold (school and home) We asked if she wanted to move schools-she did. Home issues seemed to be almost entirely centred around resenting her siblings and how we gave them too much time etc. She had 10 sessions after which they discharged her saying she was not in need of their services as far as they could see but that she could get readmitted to the programme within a year without need to be rereferred. She seemed happier at her new school initially so this didn’t happen.

I wanted someone else to see her and assess her in case I was being blinkered or unreasonable towards her.

There really isn’t any other drip feed other than in 2019 I spent 2wks in hospital after an accident caused slow internal bleeding and I collapsed a day later. I think it must have been scary for all of us and I did ask if she was ok and sought to reassure her afterwards but she accused me of being over dramatic so I don’t know how she really felt.

Yes, I have often thought she showed traits of ASD but school have always disagreed so we never pursued it.

Oh gosh, I just typed out a whole comment saying the same thing, then deleted, and just asked outright. Having family members who are diagnosed, this kind of thing has cropped up.

This is a strange post.

You've made thin veiled admissions that you prioritised the younger two children.

You made justifications for your poor attitude and behaviour when you had PND but without disclosing what actually happened.

You listed several occasions when you did something with/for DD which come across as if they were exceptional.

You sent her to grammar school where she was unhappy. No detail provided. Did you want to get rid of her? Is this how this could have felt to her?

Did you put pressure on her academically or otherwise?

Did you listen to her over the years and acknowledged her various fears?

It doesn't sound to me like you've supported her adequately. She ended up under professional MH services for a while and you seem to be minimising it and finding justifications. You also paint her as a spoilt little brat but she wasn't born this way, OP.

What is it that you and your partner actually did to support her? Where do you think each of you went wrong?

You need to look into what you two did and have an open, honest dialogue with her. Each party needs to take responsibility and apologise, then treat each other respectfully, only then you will move forward.

It strikes me you're defiant about your parenting and the fact she is now treating you like she is hurts your ego. If you actually care about rebuilding a healthy relationship with her then do the hard work.

She may be spoilt or exagerrate to some extent but that's likely because she's deeply hurt and you've been plastering over the issues and not addressing them. This is a far more likely reason than your DD being manipulative or controlling. IME there is never smoke without fire if children decide to isolate themselves from parents.

Well I'd put my money on it.

You had a hideous 2 years means she also had a hideous 2 years and she was a young child trying to deal with that. There were problems with her grammar school, there were problems with her secondary school yet she came out with 4 good alevels despite being under camhs.

You say you overindulged her but I suspect she would say different.

You need to listen to what she’s saying rather than dismiss or minimise her feelings. There’s a lot going on here.

@PurplePansy05 excellent post. The only thing I would disagree with is that this is a strange post- it's textbook for an estranged parent to report the situation this way, with them appearing very reasonable, skirting over anything that would cast them in a negative light and portraying themselves as the victim of their children.

@KnittingKnewbie, I tell her I love her every day-face to face at home and via text when away. I always made an effort with her friends and welcomed them at ours. Arranged parties and the pre prom gathering of 10 classmates. Always did mum and daughter days just us and a weekend a year away just us. Asked about school, music, earrings etc. Took her to concert she wanted and to a show she showed interest in. I really have, and still do, try to show interest in who she is and to spend time with her.

My DD's school were always adamant I was wrong in my belief that she was autistic. At 16 she finally got to see an expert in girls with autism who recognised it in her immediately. Now she's diagnosed and off the back of that so am I, and DS and recently also DH.

Don't go by what her school say.

You sent her to grammar school where she was unhappy. No detail provided. Did you want to get rid of her? Is this how this could have felt to her?

WTF? Do you know what a grammar school is?!

Edited because I inadvertently posted twice but also to send sympathy OP. I think you'll get a mixed bag of replies from people here, some of whom will be unable to conceive that your daughter's experience might be different from theirs. I'd encourage you to seek therapy for yourself so that you have a safe space to talk this through.

Tbh, I'd let her cut herself off. However I'd explain to her that whilst she live in your house she must be civil and engaged in family life. If she cannot then she will need to live elsewhere. The dynamic of anything else as an ADULT would be unfair on everyone who lives there.

Whether you contribute to university would depend on whether you are able to do so without cutting everyone else tight. If you can I'd continue - however if everyone is making sacrifices then I'd not fully fund her when she acts this way.

Kids with mental health problems are tough... but I'm getting the feeling yours is more self centred that clinically diagnosable. I suspect she'll change her turn when the financial plug is pulled... but maybe I'm a little cynical...

(From someone with a teen with genuine MH issues who I would treat very differently!)

I guess that's true, you are right. That's the type of post my own DF and a number of other parents I know would write, and there's a long list of issues with their parenting of which they're in denial and will not apologise for. Some of thosr people are also supposedly well versed in dealing with children, safeguarding etc.and assuming this makes them great parents by default. It doesn't.

She needs to bloody grow up. My childhood was full of beatings, physical and emotional neglect, sexual abuse and I was thrown out at 16. I've had mental health problems all my life including CPTSD and hallucinations yet I've managed to have a career and bring up a child on my own that I am very close to.
Being jealous of siblings and sharing is the sign of a spoilt brat.

If she was as abused as she says she is why is she choosing to come home? I'd never have gone back home. I didn't feel safe there. I put myself through university and worked all hours various jobs to pay for it.