DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

@ZebraD it’s not just about the make up desk though is it? The OP said she took her daughter for weekends away and regular 1:1 time. It’s not clear if she did the same for her younger children but it does sound like she prioritised her older daughter more not less.

@Newbutoldfather I agree with you. You read things on here which make you think-seriously-get a grip. I was reading a post the other day and couldn’t believe the pile on to some poor woman who’d dared to wear a top which said she was a wife the day after someone’s wedding! Poor new bride wasn’t the centre of attention anymore. Notwithstanding she’d probably had a fantastic wedding day and is madly in love with her new husband-she found time to take umbrage at this upstaging and got her husband to send a snarky message instead of laughing it off and shagging him silly. Young women especially are encouraged to feel victimised and traumatised by normal life.

It's actually a massive red flag if someone insists so much their childhood was just fine, but seeks therapy and then resists science which basically says childhood experiences continue to live in your body.

'My god people can't see nuances' back at you. Look at you assuming the only reason people have therapy is because they've had a crap childhood.

Lots of people go to a therapist to try and work out what to do with a situation they're in now, as adults. I started therapy because I was trapped in a relationship with someone who I now understand to have been a classic narcissist. Despite the fact that my therapist (fully qualified, written books, speaks publicly) could have said 'He's a narcissist, LTB' early on, I got trapped with her, too, encouraged to go round and round trying to find issues in my childhood to explain why all this was happening to me — and of course helping her pay her mortgage at the same time.

My sister, among several other women I know, have turned to a therapist when their marriages broke down or their children (like the OP's) have been having issues with them.

I'm sorry you went through that. Narcs are no joke. I actually did suggest to the OP to seek therapy to deal with the current situation. Perhaps read back again.

It's not a therapists job to advise on cutting off people. it is not what therapists do and I am sorry you can still not understand that. My guess is you needed to figure this out yourself, to understand why you stayed in the relationship and it would be a lot easier to not fall into a relationship like that again. You put up with a lot of crap from a Narc, which other people perhaps would not have done. And reasons for that can indeed be in childhood.

If you needed someone to tell you to leave your partner going to a therapist was the wrong move.

@Mirabai It's usually what people say when you have nothing of substance to contribute. They go on personal attack. But I am seeing my therapist, for which I am extremely grateful, and I know that what you say has nothing to do with me and everything with you.

People here don't understand that therapists don't turn children against their parents. Far from it

Triangulation and the drama triangle is a well known phenomena. Therapists should be very aware of it. Some will be better than others.

Really no need for personal attacks against people who disagree with you.

I agree. this entitled behaviour also plays out in the workplace. Because so many young women are a PITA to manage. The ops daughter is a sponge, sapping the life out of the family.
Let her go-she may turn out to be the prodigal daughter.

I haven’t disagreed with her I just think she’s being obnoxious. Personal attacks is her key note: OP begged her to stop and left the thread shortly after. You might consider that.

This.

She will eventually grow out of it.

She also has a choice - cut your nose off to spite her face - or accept you weren't a perfect parent and deal with it. Jealously isn't a good look.

The point here, is you do love her. You've tried to do your best, even though that wasn't ideal at time because 'life'.

One day down the road, if she has kids, what is she going to do for child care. You think she will think twice about asking you OP? You who she accuses of being emotionally neglectful?

One of the things of being a teenager is we are actually biologically programmed to reject our parents in some way. Why? Because it helps us become independent and forge our own way in life. This has had evolutionary benefits. This could well just be a manifestation of that.

Its easy to pathologise this and make it into something its not and then go around making it your identity sucked into the past which you can't change without being able to look forward and do something about the future which is within your control.

Honestly, she's a 19 year old doing what 19 year old sometimes do.

I genuinely think all the angst on this thread about it, is largely unhelpful.

Tell her the truth. You've done your best, but if thats not good enough for her thats her issue to deal with because you've always love her and always wanted the best for her but the universe doesn't revolve solely around her. You are human so there will have been times when you maybe could have done better, but thats just how life is and she will learn this in time. You respect her decision to go no contact because its important she feels in control of her life and you are deeply hurt by that. But in doing so she also needs to take full financial responsibility for herself but there are other options available to her. If she wants to talk about things further then you will, but you also do not have to justify every life decision you've made to appease her. This is not your problem to fix. You can't fix it. These are issues in the past. It is acceptable to fuck up in life because thats normal and massive guilt trips after the fact don't help - you will be the one standing there waiting to be there for her when she inevitably does the same. If she wants therapy to help her come to terms with what she feels she missed out on, you will support that, but its STILL not your problem to fix. Its her internal problem to resolve. Life is unfair sometimes, and no amount of being upset about it will change it.

Honestly just make a point about how much you do care, but also don't indulge it either.

I do think its a life stage, not something more.

There is an issue with spending so much time looking at what your parents are doing wrong with no time spent in what they did right though. Also true when it’s about saying ‘parent did X and Y wrong’ rather than ‘I learnt A and B in childhood and this isn’t helpful to me’.

I personally found it unsettling tbh (yes having done some therapy myself blablabla).

And i can see how with a teenager, on the spectrum (aka rigidity in her way of thinking) this could be very detrimental (which the counsellor acknowledged themselves!). All about what mum is doing wrong with little about mum is doing right…. And no insight on how mum is human too, with her own struggles and issues.
In the OP’s case, it’s probably not helped by the fact the OP is clearly feeling guilty about her PND, having brought more children to the family etc… which I’m sure her dd ‘knows’ (subconsciously or not)

FWIW University was a car crash for me in various way. I ultimately recognise I wasn't mature enough and I struggled all the way through. I graduated before my 21 birthday.

Then my parents drove me so nuts, I decided I want to go live in Australia. Permenantly. I was never coming back.

It didn't work out like that. But a huge amount of it was about forging my own independance and identity because I felt so suffocated and controlled by my parents. If anything they cared too much.

In hindsight it was about this need to 'break free' and become an adult. But you only realise this later on.

Your post contained nothing but a personal attack. No need for it and doesn't contribute anything positive for OP either.

People can have completely different narratives that they truly believe that suits their world view so that they can live with themselves.

So for example, a man and a woman who are both married to other people with children, have an affair and leave both spouses to start a new relationship, have to have a narrative that theirs is a true love story that makes Romeo & Juliet pale into significance in order to self-justify the carnage they reek across the lives of their spouses and children. They have to make the new relationship work and be special so they can live with the guilt. They really believe it is extraordinary but it's not.

The same is true with the way people view particular situations from both sides. The child believes the parent is the devil in order to justify the cutting them off.

A narrative made up so that someone can live with themself will get more extreme over time becuase it is reinforced, and repeated to anyone who will listen (sympathetic friends who will agree). So a falling out because a person was a bit rude, ten years later will be because the person was one of the most evil people who trod the earth.

The truth is usually in the middle neither as bad nor as good.

The op is not returning she has had enough of anonymous women behind screens judging her and her daughter. The poster you two are talking about called the op toxic. Calling someone you have never spoken to or met toxic is unhelpful and a nasty thing to say and that's one of the reasons the op has buggered off. She even said she knows the op doesn't like the word but she's going to use it anyway.

The thread is dead and the op has lost interest.

All I can say is this new generation find all the reasons in the world to blame others . I’m in my early 40s I grew up with a family that often struggled and I have my own demons against my parents behaviours . I’m also far from being the perfect mother but I try my best to not repeat mistakes .
Children should not expect perfection from their parents , at her age she is an adult , able to understand even where we do our best we often do the wrong thing .
I just spend the morning interviewing young graduates to a junior position ( a professional role ) and honestly I wonder how some even survived university .
Stop pandering to young adults needs ! It’s nit helping them .

. You put up with a lot of crap from a Narc, which other people perhaps would not have done. And reasons for that can indeed be in childhood.

It's the eternal burden of being a mother, it's always the mother's fault!

It's not a therapists job to advise on cutting off people. it is not what therapists do and I am sorry you can still not understand that. My guess is you needed to figure this out yourself, to understand why you stayed in the relationship and it would be a lot easier to not fall into a relationship like that again. You put up with a lot of crap from a Narc, which other people perhaps would not have done. And reasons for that can indeed be in childhood.

If you needed someone to tell you to leave your partner going to a therapist was the wrong move.

"I am sorry you can still not understand that', eh? Get you with the passive aggression. Stop being so patronising. Please tell me you're not a therapist.

OP are you on Instagram? There is a therapist on there who specialises in this area and she has a lot of useful advice for parents- her account name is sitwithwhit. Might be worth a look? It sounds like you’re devastated about the potential loss and like you love your daughter a lot.

OP, I'm sorry you've had such a hard time on here, and so very sorry to hear that your DD wants to cut contact. You sound like a lovely mum who has and is trying very hard with your dd, you clearly feel her pain even if you don't understand it.
I wonder if counselling for you would help even if she doesn't want to engage with that.
It does sound as if she does need to grow up a bit tbh. It's a bit rich to criticise your decision re having more children, her siblings. Perhaps she needs to find a life partner of her own to enable her to grow away from you and the rest of the family more naturally.

I think ASD is a real possibility, she seems to display a real lack of empathy for you, for her younger siblings, probably her dad and posdibly her friends from what you've described. If she does agree to be assessed for ASD there are tools and workshops available to help her understand and deal with her feelings...NHS route is probably best

This is a very valid point but it really isn't up to the OP whether her adult daughter stays in touch with her parents or not.
The OP can always be caring and still worry about her daughter. That isn't the nub of the situation according to the daughter. The daughter wants to cease contact but still wants the Bank of Mum & Dad to remain open to them and have a Hotel of Mum & Dad available to her at any time during the holidays.
Life unfortunately doesn't work like that.

The OP should (in my opinion) listen to what her daughter is asking and then agree to it but make it very clear that the Hotel of Mum & Dad and the Bank of Mum & Dad are both closing to her as a result.

She, the daughter, is coming across as a very young naive 19 yr old, not fully grasping what she is suggesting she wants to do. That said, the OP doesn't have to put up with being berated for having PND or even for having more children. That is not fair on the OP and I really don't think the 19 yr old even has the slightest comprehension that her words are wounding and causing the OP emotional hurt and harm. If the 19yr old is aware that her words are hurting the OP, I'd even go so far as to say that it might be in the OP's best interests (at least on the short term) to cease contact until her daughter grasps the full extent of what she has said she wanted.

Lol this is so so rude. Not that it's any of your business and I'm not sure why you think it's ok to ask me so aggressively, but I sought therapy to deal with and recover from an abusive relationship.

Of course parents have a massive influence on a person's life, but they are not the only factor that can shape someone's mental health.

I’m sorry you have had been on the end of so many nasty comments here, especially as you have reached out for help. I have 3 children and it can be so difficult as well as a great joy.
I think you are doing really well in a difficult situation and hope things work out for you all. Hang on in there, continue to show your love and support for your daughter. Good luck x

I'm not arrogant, I'm experienced. I was diagnosed many years ago when you actually had to have significant symptoms, and have witnessed the recent shift of the past ten years to diagnosing absolutely everyone with autism, no matter what their real problems are.

These people have zero in common with those of us who were diagnosed a long time ago. Mostly, they can live independently, and have unpleasant personality traits that cannot be explained by poor social skills. In fact, they tend to have good social skills, which they explain by "masking".

They also take over autism groups and center themselves, while judging autistic people with more severe symptoms than them as lazy and failures. They think they are superior, because they officially have the same label, so when they see that they can have a career, education, family and home, while others can't, they think it's because they are vastly superior and have overcome the challenge of autism. In reality, they have very mild or no autism and were less disabled in the first place.

In my opinion, personality disorders are being misdiagnosed en masse as autism. Professor Uta Frith agrees that narcissism is being misdiagnosed as autism, and there is a study suggesting that EUPD and autism presents similarly in adult women. Nobody wants a diagnosis of a personality disorder, while autism is fashionable and a lot of people use the label to bolster their egos.

In my experience, people with traditional (diagnosed a long time ago) autism almost always cannot live independently without help. It seems OP's daughter is doing this during term time and there has been no mention of anything that would suggest impaired executive function.

Her only supposed autism symptom appears to be that she is selfish while thinking everyone else is unfair to her. She remembers this unfairness for a long time, which sounds very much like narcissistic grudge holding. She also falls out with friends and never accepts fault. Again this does not sound like autism.

If she has NPD, an autism diagnosis will do nothing except enable and embolden her. Not only that, but she will then be suggested to join autism groups, which if she joins will be harmful to people with real autism.