DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

Or someone who's autistic, and therefore doesn't understand the social situation in the way that we do.

You sound very dismissive with your comments about "teen drama".

You are, of course, entitled to have as many children as you choose, but she is equally entitled to wish that you had stopped at one. It doesn't sound like having siblings was much fun from her perspective, and I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that.

I'm not really sure how she envisages cutting all ties if she is still dependent on you and returning home in the holidays etc. That doesn't sound very realistic, but perhaps it is just her way of trying to get you to understand how very unhappy she is. Are you listening to what she is telling you, or are you dismissing her feelings?

I mean, there's a lot of similarities between my childhood and OP's DD's but I'm not angry at my parents about it - sure, they chose to have more kids, but I don't see that someone has the right to demand to be an only child so they get more stuff!!

They did what they could with what they had, and I've made my own choices based on that and how I would do it differently myself - but we're all human.

And of course younger children get more attention, they need it! Of course younger siblings have a bit more leeway - eldest are PFBs, they get the parent's first try at parenting and so tend to have it a bit stricter, that's normal isn't it? Hell, I only have 2, and they've always gone to bed at the same time, I do hope 19 year old DS doesn't find that so terrible he wants to leave!

Yes, my mother is the same, and she is a psycho therapist. She's done so many things over the years that it's death by a thousand cuts. She doesn't want to hear it of course, and she's been rewarded by having almost no relationship with my sister and I for the last 15 years. She will never understand because she doesn't want to listen to anything that would be a criticism of her. Whereas my dad has done things that are more hurtful - but he was able to repair it, so we both have a good relationship with him.

What's her relationship like with her siblings?

If she was as abused as she says she is why is she choosing to come home?

Agree this doesn't make sense.

There is a lot of evidence the depression in a parent means it is more likely that a child will be depressed.

See for example.

evidence.nihr.ac.uk/alert/parents-depression-impact-their-childrens-mental-health-school-performance/

So your PND will have impacted your child.

I am not saying that to blame you. I am saying that because as a child she needs to learn emotional regulation and it is hard to learn that from a depressed parent.

When she is saying she resents the younger two she may mean she resents the impact they had on the family - and if they tipped you into PND for two years I can see her point.

I'm sorry your eldest has turned out to be an entitled madam. The only toxic one is her.

I would not be financially supporting anyone so ungrateful and manipulative.

She may realise that she is wrong when she fends die herself in the real world and other people tell her that she is wrong.

Best advice here

@PurplePansy05, I don’t really understand your points.
Where have I said I prioritised the other two? That absolutely has not happened. Or do you mean I’ve admitted we’re maybe a little slacker in bedtimes and time on electronics?

What poor behaviour are you referring to? I was ill. I didn’t mistreat her in any way although I fully accept it cannot have been a nice time for her.

The listing of nice things was very regular. I frequently took her out at weekends just us. I took her away for one weekend a year just the two of us to do something I thought she’d enjoy. I’d take her to Costa randomly after school to chill and chat.

She went to our local grammar school not boarding school. I’m not sure what you mean by trying to get rid of her. Her Y5 teacher suggested it, she seemed to want it so she sat the test, was offered a place and that’s where she went for Y7. When I realised she was unhappy I offered her an alternative and she accepted it.

Im not minimising at all and I soul search on this daily. She has never been easy but I love her deeply. Friendships don’t last either and she always blames them but maybe they don’t find her easy either. Not everyone is easy but she’s my daughter and I love her and I want to have a good relationship with her. I have suggested counselling either just for her, for us together or as a family but she doesn’t want that.

I'm with PPs who have mentioned autism. She's extremely bright but found school difficult and was stressed enough to need CAMHS involvement... that was enough, but the mention of her views on siblings and equality / justice between them is also v similar to how my eldest views things here (my DC are both autistic with different needs and eldest struggles to understand that there have been things we have needed to do differently with youngest due to disabilities). For this and other reasons we have been looking into inattentive ADHD and rejection sensitive dysphoria - I think you should look at RSD too OP. (That's not to minimise their experience or invalidate their feelings at all, just to understand why they may be feeling the way they do and bridge the gap from our perspectives.)

We have somehow created a generation of teenagers like this. You are not alone OP, I've seen it with friends as well. The navel-gazing, the 'mental health issues' most of their own creating (and yes, also under CAMHS several years ago because nobody can tell you you're not having issues if you say you are).

If she is really feeling like this, she needs help that you can't offer, and I'd agree that she needs to grow up a lot. There's a huge sense of entitlement coming from her just because she was born first?

If her choice is to go to NC she's old enough to realise there are consequences of that and she doesn't get to pick and choose when she wants to be part of the family. It's either toxic and abusive, or it's not.

Dont take it onboard OP. You know your daughter and your parenting. I think shes just been spoiled and indulged..thats not a criticism , we have all done it xxx

Your daughter has a history of mental health issues. She received treatment for those issues from a system that has a ridiculously high bar for acknowledging mental health issues in youth. You should not be discounting her history.

as much as she is talking a big game here, she hasn’t actually cut you off. She is still taking your money. She is still coming home during breaks.

there could be a few things going on here. It’s possible that from her perspective, growing up her needs really were not being met. Your post doesn’t really have the tone of someone who has given the proper introspection to the issue.

its also possible that you are a safe person for her to lash out and the the real issue is something entirely different.

what would I do? I would offer to help get her into therapy. It can ostensibly be to help her process the trauma she went through as your child. If that really is her problem, she can deal with it. If it isn’t her real problem, then privately within the therapists office, hopefully they will get to the root of things.

You seem very removed from her emotionally. The description of her depression is so clinical. Maybe you are a clinician but it is all so lacking in warmth towards her. I would echo others suggestions to really listen and acknowledge what she is saying. Maybe seek a counsellor for yourself in the first instance. You’re focussing on the threat to cut you off which probably won’t happen. She sounds far too vulnerable to see that through. She’s trying to get your attention and has succeeded. Also all the things you mention that you have done for her are totally normal and unexceptional. You’re supposed to look after your kids!

Sounds to me like you take no responsibility for any of this. She has made the right decision. Let her go.

The more you post the more it screams autism to me.

and next thing you know she will posting here about her parents ruining her childhood and then kicking her out of home.

@AncientBallerina , I’m not at all removed. In fact, I’m quite the opposite. It breaks my heart that she feels this way. Not for me but for her. I hate that she seems so unhappy. I love her and I’ve always said so and tried to show her every day. Maybe my posts seem more clinical but my attitude absolutely is not.

I agree. OP I started distancing myself around age 20. My mother has now lost any chance of a good relationship with her children and her grandchildren. If you fear a similar fate and you want to discuss with someone on the other side of the fence then you're really welcome to PM me. You say you want advice on what to do to fix the situation - I would recommend you avoid blaming your daughter and attributing it to her personality. I can promise you that won't fix the relationship.

But keep paying her bills presumably?

100% this

@PurplePansy05 do you understand what grammar school is?

Why? She can stand on her own two feet. I put myself into care at 15 due to my abusive toxic mother and put myself through college university and bought a house at 20 if nothing else toxic parents breed independent adults.

I would absolutely be shutting this shit down. If she wants to go no contact that's entirely up to her but she can't decide her "trauma" is only bearable when she needs financial support through uni.
Her childhood actually sounds a lot like mine with the CAHMS stuff. Looking back, they did more harm than good and allowed me to blame my parents for absolutely everything. I'm a little older than your daughter but I do think us earlier ex CAHMS patients have a major lack of resilience. I hope they do better now.