DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

The op.said she went to 10 sessions and.the therapist felt she didn't need them. The therapist said she wouldn't have to reapply if she needed to return later on in the year.

If her daughter feels that aggrieved she can leave she's an adult now. I moved out at 19 and didn't look back.

Thanks, he had issues for sure, it impacted us all hugely. He is getting there. I hope your DD is OK too.

That was for @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

From your post, she sounds like an absolute brat.

I think all siblings have sibling rivalry much of which is unspoken and sometime not even self articulated until parents die, so to put a positive spin on it, at least she's talking about it now.

It's hard to know without hearing her side of the story but I wonder how much of this is generational - with them being spoon fed psycho-babble via social media. For example when I was that age, not only did I not know the word 'gaslit', it would never have occurred to me that adults would do that to children.

I wouldn’t cut her off from financial support altogether, but I’d make it clear to her that “You need to get a job and provide more of your own needs if you don’t want to spend time with us; we’ll only be providing the basics.” She sounds like she needs a bit of a wake up call; some time in a workplace where she can’t demand endless sympathy and understanding would probably do her some good.

Does not sound like the OP did anything wrong; having parents’ attention distracted by younger siblings is just part of life, and normal people understand this and move on.

The OP’s other kids mysteriously seem to be fine, though.

Some people just have a bit of a tendency towards drama and self-pity, and can be pretty unbearable at this age. Sounds like the OP’s daughter may be one of them. With luck, she’ll probably mellow as she gets older, but do you really not accept that some people just have more difficult personalities than others?

I don't have children. I was the DD.

But, I am better. My relationship with my parents is much better with my own home and DCat on my lap.

I’m so sorry but the description of a ‘toxic’ childhood just shows how lucky and privileged your child is.

Other kids have childhoods that are far more tough and challenging than the one you have described.

If they honestly feel that way then they need start making their own way in the world and that means no financial support from you. Once they realise how hard it is to be an adult - they have an inkling of how hard it is to be an adult with kids.

I don’t usually feel the need to post on here ( I lurk all the time) but this one really diced my swede.

there is nothing to suggest here that it’s the case ? She moved complained of her siblings behaviour

I find it sad reading this that the girl seems to have tried to explain to her mother and her counsellor what was wrong and it’s being dismissed and people here are calling her a brat. The mother is never going to paint herself in a bad light and wants our sympathy so what’s written here is always going to be skewed in her favour. I can guarantee if the daughter was to write her side of the story it would sound highly toxic and the truth may lie somewhere in the middle.

i had what appeared to the outside to be a privileged upbringing but it was toxic. My siblings received a very different childhood to me but one is now recognising (40 years later) the toxicity in the family and also that I had it much worse. To the outside it would never have appeared that way and people still tell me what a great mum I’ve got. The child has obviously tried to communicate to you the problem and you’ve dismissed them with things like “oh that’s just being the eldest’ but she’s telling you she felt pushed out and that’s her reality. That you didn’t intend to or couldn’t help it, is your reality but she doesn’t FEEL that because they’re just words to her. Actions do speak louder than words. A shopping trip at 14 doesn’t heal years of hurt

She would have been at a delicate age to experience your PND and she probably took the brunt of it, it takes a very long time to get over being on the receiving end of coping with a parent with mental ill health and she herself accessed camhs treatment which has been notoriously difficult for decades (not just post covid) - So with kindness OP your intention is not necessarily the takeaway from the relationship. Sometimes you have to admit your failed her and apologise for that (not I’m sorry you feel that way kind of apology either).

if you want to repair the relationship take your ego and intent out of discussions and try actually hearing what she’s saying. Her feelings didn’t come from nowhere.

Thanks for this.

🙄

In reality every child in any family gets a different deal re parenting, available time and funding and even access to experienced parents.

I would respect your daughter's opinion, hear it, apologise for anything that she found hard but explain that you were doing your best and that every kid gets a different deal in most families.
Different treatment is good in one aspect that it teaches young people to cope with change and disappointment and makes for more resilient and adaptable adults.

Your daughter needs you to hear her, keep funding her uni (that is fair) and respect her choice to disengage for however long.

With her I would be discussing the fairness of funding her uni but also the fairness of her not calling the family home her base during holidays. Help her find holiday accommodation and a holiday job. A job that comes with accommodation could work, or living with a close relative near her work and her paying her own fair amount of lodgings etc. She might like to stay in uni accommodation and find work to pay for that. You both will work something out.

Tell her she is welcome to resume contact when she feels ready and she is welcome to show up for Christmas but it is probably good to plan at least a year or two living in her new chosen independent mode. Remember to send her a birthday greeting and gift and keepeach other's phone numbers incase she needs to hear about a family death etc.

The time away is what your daughter wants. It might work out great.

The thing that a lot of people forget is that difficult childhood doesn't always equal evil mother.

My mother loves me, I know. But she has many issues, including an inability to self-reflects, that have made it impossible for her to take any criticism on board. So now I'm low contact, after years of trying to make her understand.

A 'Disney' childhood nails it. When did people get the idea that any difficulty or trauma in their lives is somehow aberrant and shouldn't have happened? Back in the day we were regularly told that life just isn't fair and sometimes you had to just suck it up - we might have railed against it at the time, but it's true. Jesus, we're only a couple of generations away from 18-year-olds having to go and fight on the front lines, and now we're at a point where a woman can be lambasted for being ill and putting her daughter though the 'trauma' of having younger siblings. It's absolutely ridiculous.

OP, I think you sound fine as a parent. Only averagely flawed. I think ASD could be there.
Asking for advice on an online forum carries great risks. I once did it on a different forum and some replies were so harsh I ended up on the phone to the Samaritans twice that night.
Wishing you well OP.

I think there is an issus here with DD never feeling like she was the priority in any situation and it has likely taken an emotional toll.

I don’t think she sounds like a brat as I was also that kid who wasn’t favoured in comparison to a younger sibling so I get it.

I think Op is giving herself too much credit in some of the things she says. It’s all very well taking DD away for one weekend a year, but giving her that attention for 2 out of 365 days a year likely didn’t cut it.

Also tbh, OP lost me when she mentioned she took her DD clothes shopping, as if a parent should get credit for clothing their child.

My perspective is that there may be some truth in what DD is saying.

This.
All these posters applauding the op and validating that she's the one who had a difficult time when the daughter was young until her dh and new kids came along and the dd should be pleased and happy and it's ridiculous the dd should say she had a upsetting childhood. Why is it valid op had pnd and her behaviour then should be forgotten and accepted, yet the dd and her emotions because of this are sneered at and mocked?

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia Erm, you do realize that mother and child are separate entities.

It is possible to ask for advice and receive advice on a particular problem without having comprehensive representation from all the players in the room.

FFS - there is no need for your horror. This is NOT a child who has been beaten, starved, sexually or emotionally abused. This IS about a Mum asking for advice on a parenting forum.

Give your head a wobble and realize that not all parents have it down pat. Nor is it possible in one post to fully articulate complex and painful issues.

You are NOT contributing anything useful (unless you include listening to the sound of your own voice).

Like that response. The door is open and it puts the ball in her court.

From what you said OP it seems she lacks perspective in what she has been given. She had her own bedroom for starters, I didn't. Weekend away just you and her...my mum was way to busy to accomodate that. My mum (and dad) is fantastic btw. She may well have been spoilt and is still acting it. Or it could be unaddressed mental issues that is clouding her judgement (certainly did for me at one point).

I suspect this isn’t about you really. She is having a tough time and you are the easy target to place the blame and anger.

I have an ASD younger teen and for about 6 months I was hated. I ignored it and ensure she knew she was loved, but eventually snapped and cried, standing up for myself a couple of times, and it blew over. Dad became the focus next and that too blew by not publishing it but challenging, firm boundaries, while showing love. It was more about her testing boundaries to feel secure, at a difficult time, than about how awful we actually were. We’re honest about our imperfections.

It also enabled her to see us as human and vulnerable and fallible just like her. She needs to take responsibility for her behaviour - falling out with friends - or she won’t address the issues and will continue making the same mistakes. It is easier to blame you. She needs a therapist who can help her see this so she can make the changes and improve her life. I’ve done similar and it really helped (possible ASD and actual traumatic childhood).

She's going home and taking their money.

I'm permanently estranged from my mother - I paid my own way through university with government help and nearly 2 decades later I don't even know where she lives.

This girl is 'buffet' estranging

She was only in the school she hated for a year, that doesn't seem that bad as it's hard to move mid year. Also Had a yearly one on one trip with mom. I don't think she was that hard done by. I mean, lake of vacations isn't a valid reason to abandon your family.

Thank you, doctor.

My thoughts exactly