DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

I cant comment on her childhood as we only had your word for it but they way you post makes me think you has the other two as add ons, you are not coming across as nice towards her and the fact you seem to favour them seems obvious

but if she does not like things then she can find ways to support herself if she is that upset, I would be a little suspicious of 'I don't want you but I will take your money'

“If she is neurodivergent like me, it will make her less vulnerable if you are able to help her into her first home, car, etc… “
^
What on earth is this?! It would help anyone wouldn’t if fgs you don’t have to be ND. 🙄

Lots of nasty comments on this thread. From what you’ve said here I don’t agree that you’ve favoured the younger two and have been toxic towards your DD.
The time you were sick would’ve been hard on her, possibly harder than you know, was she relied on to provide childcare/supervise the younger ones and how is her relationship with them?
Your DH doesn’t come across as particularly loving, or communicative though.
There’s sobmuch to unpick, it sounds complex my thoughts would’ve been to have family counselling but your daughter doesn’t want that.
I’m suspicious that whilst she calls you toxic, she still wants to come home to the this awful, toxic environment during holidays 🤔 and of course your financial support.

I can’t see how extra screen time is favouring the younger ones. Does she see their childhood as more fun or something whilst she had to study (even though she wanted to at the time?) She sees them as spoilt and she’s hard done by? She sounds like a very lucky girl to me.

I’d take the good advice you’ve had, ignore the stupid comments - mn is becoming a vipers nest, more so than usual. I’ve been here years and I don’t recognise the poster names here.

Good luck op hope you get to work things out with your DD.

She's a a real charmer isn't she? Basically she resents she is not an only child and that you were sick for two years. I mean it is tempting to kick her out now if she is so filled with resentment for her "toxic childhood" but I understand why you are hesitant to do this. As soon as she is through with university though and has hopefully got a job then I'd be kicking her out. You don't have to spend the rest of your life being her punching bag. My somewhat similar child returned home during his degree (part of which had to be taught in distant places) with a new appreciation of home comforts. He ended up liking the sibling whom he had resented for stopping him being an only child.

I can't wade through the entire thread but I can tell you that when my teenage daughter went through a bout of poor me-ism, I wrote to her describing my love for her and how I'd cherished watching her grow etc. I acknowledged her feelings and said I'd really like to listen if there was anything she wanted to say, and that we could do it just us or with a counsellor, which she felt more comfortable with.

It really landed with her and since then our relationship has fully recovered.

Teenagers are extraordinarily self absorbed and also obsessed with pop psychology. They know everything and nothing. It sure is a work out.

That is fascinating.

This is a repeat post from last year?

I'm wondering if she has an emerging personality disorder OP?
To me she sounds more EUPD than ND

@SadandStressed3 - having read the majority of the threads on here I couldn't not comment if just to give you some moral support.

You have done your best by your daughter. That's it. You might not have been perfect and you may have made mistakes along the way, fgs, who hasn't? But you provided your daughter with a safe, comfortable home and tried to help her in the best way you could.
I wonder if some of the people criticising you here have yet to parent children through to the age of 19 because it isn't easy.

I think all you can do now is explain to her that you did your best, that if you made mistakes along the way they weren't intentional and that you love her very much. You don't need to apologise for the lack of holidays, different bedtimes etc.

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that her behaviour towards you is down to her her feeling very unhappy in herself.
She is unhappy and looking for someone to blame and you, as her mum, are the closest person she can rage at and take her unhappiness out on - safe in the knowledge that you won't walk away from her. Blaming you for her unhappiness is the easy option.

So I think you just need to hang in there and love her through this. Let her go if that's what she wants but I suspect it isn't really.

You can't rewrite history but you can go forward being a constant, loving presence in the background of her life who will always be there when she needs you.

Good luck xxx

OP FWIW, all I can say is my heart goes out to you and I hope that you both manage to find a way forward that brings you both some peace. You've been on the receiving end of some utterly batshit/cruel comments on here, not to mention those from the hard of reading. Much solace can be derived from understanding that none of us is perfect and that life is not always fair.

What will that achieve?

If she truly is a manipulative little madam she will „stick it out“ for as long as she’ll need OP‘s money and support and may very well go NC later.

If the situation is bad enough to go NC despite whatever “threats” OP may come up with - because this will be considered to be a threat by her DD - she will probably need to pause her education. Which may impact her for the rest of her life.
That certainly won’t make the situation better but simply lead to more resentment and pain!

By the look of your first post it look like she is taking the piss being an entitled teen.
Blaming you because her life was hard because you have more kids!!! Nonsense.

I think she want things her way and if not she moves earth and heaven to have it her way. I don't have advice because I would be tempted to tell her ok. And cut all ties myself, but she is 19 so it may come to her senses.

Basically, looks like she is bullying your family.

This sounds like an incredibly difficult situation! 💐

I may well have not done everything as I could have. But she was never emotionally neglected or badly treated. My other 2 kids are thriving. No issues whatsoever. One tries with their sister, the other is driven mad by her and keeps their distance.

Comparing her to her siblings won’t help. They didn’t have the same childhood, they aren’t the same people. It’s irrelevant.

She feels these things to be true. Whether you think they’re true is an entirely different discussion. But denying them or simply calling them her truth whilst still denying them won’t help.

edit: I am not saying that you should be stuck in a perpetual state of feeling sorry or trying to make amends. I am simply saying that denying her reasons won’t help you! There is nothing to be gained for anyone going down that route!

I understand that you’re also in a very difficult situation due to the other two children. You can’t completely prioritise DD1 to the detriment of the others (obviously). Have you considered family counselling for all of you? Including your other children?

Op bear in mind that there are quite a lot of posters here who actively look forward to the chance to abuse a username on a screen and make them feel bad about something. They'd do the same whatever you would have posted about this

I was pretty happy growing up but was a typical teenager (a female Kevin "it is not fair!"). The eldest of three, obviously by the time little brother came along (when I was five), things were more relaxed than when I was younger. I went through a slightly bitter period in my teens because he got a later bed time than I did (yes I laugh at it now!).

He was a bit indulged and also ended up going to a 'posh' school. I cannot remember that period much but I imagine he wasn't doing well in the local comp, and no matter how you punished him, he did not care!

However, I did love him and I got over myself but it does sound like your daughter has mental health issues and probably does feel ignored.

This site is quite strange in that there is a clear (and not obvious) prioritisation by age and sex.

First comes teenage girls and young women, up to about 22, whose feelings, according to some posters, should always be prioritised, and their behaviour tolerated-because hormones (I think).

Then comes actual children, with girls first. Amazing how many posters sympathise with women disappointed that they are having a boy, as off that is somehow second best.

Then teenage boys, adult women, and finally adult men, whose feelings are generally minimised and behaviour labelled abuse on the flimsiest of evidence (not saying there aren’t plenty of abusive men btw).

The worst I saw was the advice to a mother who was sleepless as her teenage daughter (who had quit education at 17) talked loudly on the phone to her boyfriend all night. She was advised to buy earplugs! The other one is that teenagers’ rooms are sacrosanct, so they can leave them with rotting food, stinky clothes, but must never be entered.

A lot of the pandering to teenagers is a total symptom of privilege and being spoiled. If you didn’t have plenty of money, you couldn’t trash a room or abandon education to be up all night talking to a partner. You couldn’t witter on about your feelings whilst enjoying an expensive university education and using your family home as a hotel (although you wouldn’t treat hotel staff like this girl is treating your mother). The idea that any of these lack of boundaries is good for teenagers is plain wrong according to any educational or psychological theory, but somehow it passes for good parenting on this site,

In this case, I sympathise a little with the daughter, as she is probably dealing with undiagnosed ASD, which is incredibly tough, and girls mask differently to boys, in that boys tend to exhibit similar symptoms, but each ASD girl presents differently.

But that means she should be helped to overcome and deal with the issues (with specialist therapy if necessary), nor pandered to and allowed to destroy the rest of the family. OP’s siblings’ feelings matter too, as do OP’s feelings. Ultimate it may be better to let her live separately, with a little help if necessary.

@SadandStressed3 I haven't read all the replies to the thread. I'm really sorry to see you've left the thread, just posting in case you happen to look back.

I've been to a few different therapists as an adult. Most of them have at some point been very keen to talk about my childhood and persuade me that my tendency to do or feel xyz is the result of something my parents did. As a secure person in my 30s, I knew that wasn't the case. I kept telling them over and over that my childhood was happy and these things were nothing to do with my parents.

I can see how therapists could direct an easily persuaded young person to blame their parents for everything.

Hopefully if you give her time and space she might start to realise that the way she is feeling is not your fault.

I would say OP should prioritise validating her daughter's feelings because she wants a relationship with her daughter @Newbutoldfather and not because I think a 19 year old automatically needs to have their feelings prioritised over her mother's.

I don't agree that validating feelings is pandering or a lack of boundaries. You can validate someone's feelings while telling them their behaviour is unacceptable. You can also validate someone's feelings while enforcing boundaries (e.g. I completely understand why you are angry but when you shout I will leave the room because I won't accept being shouted at).

I think there is more to it than that…don’t you?!

Stories like this just reconfirm why I always wanted sons and not daughters! OP you sound like a good mum from what you’ve shared who has had a difficult time of it with PND, illness and what sounds like a very annoying, entitled and bratty daughter. It reminds me a lot of the dynamic between my mother and her mother. My mother was also the eldest and a total handful and she treated my grandmother like shit most her life and blamed her for everything that had ever gone wrong in her life. She also put her down constantly, telling her she was dowdy, boring, unintelligent, her house was a hovel etc etc. Interestingly from the perspective of her two younger sisters, she was her mother’s favourite, because my grandmother had to focus so much attention on her due to her behaviour. So her siblings were actually very jealous of the quite toxic relationship between mother and daughter. Their relationship eventually improved after my grandmother took a more tough love approach and set boundaries and refused to be treated like a doormat. You daughter sounds like she doesn’t respect you and bending over backwards for someone who is clearly ungrateful won’t help that. She is not a child anymore so you can be there for her, love her but at the same time love yourself and set boundaries.

"Stories like this just reconfirm why I always wanted sons and not daughters!"

OMFG
No words for this!

My god, people really can't see nuances. The fact that your childhood may have shaped you in good and not so good ways doesn't mean it wasn't happy. Why did you even go to therapy if you were so secure and just fine?

Seriously. People think it's so so awful to say 'this experience in childhood had a negative impact on me and it bothers me and I'm going to see if I can work through this to change my views and behaviours for my own benefit.

It's actually a massive red flag if someone insists so much their childhood was just fine, but seeks therapy and then resists science which basically says childhood experiences continue to live in your body.

People here don't understand that therapists don't turn children against their parents. Far from it. They actually facilitate for a person to figure things out on their own and make up their own mind. It's ok to seek therapy and engage with a therapist. There is no shame. There is no shame for parents who got a few things wrong as long as they acknowledge it may have hurt a child. This is a normal part of ANY relationship btw. But a lot of parents here just think the kid needs to suck it up and finish any discussion with 'nobody is perfect' and that's that. That is indeed toxic.

I wouldn’t tolerate such selfish behaviour from an adult Princess and I’d be letting her get on with her life without my (financial) support.

So many youngsters who grow up thinking the world should revolve around them. 🤦🏻‍♀️

If you think that women lining up to namecall, insult, and threaten with poverty and homelessness, a teenage girl, with mental ill health, and possible undiagnosed developmental disorders… is an example of how teenage girls come first on Mumsnet is almost unbelievable!

…but I do believe it. Misogyny at its finest.

What would you deem an acceptable response? Witch-burning? It already hasn’t been dissimilar to an online witch-hunt.

If her mother were to go and repeat and act on what has been said here, as she was encouraged to do, it could result in serious consequences to a young life. Not to mention unquestionably abusive.

Coming at it from the other side... I have always been terribly troubled and anxious, and there have been times when I'd be capable of blaming absolutely anyone else for the way I felt, starting with my parents, of course. Who took an awful lot more crap than they had any need to, because, of course, they love me.

So my heart goes out to you, OP. I think she is making unreasonable demands upon you. The problem is that if you were to say "Right, ok, no contact it is, then," that'd just reinforce her belief that you don't care.

I think the poster who suggested that you write to her talking about nice, loving things that you've done for her is making a good point; but it has to be "Don't be so silly, of course I love you and make an effort for you" rather than, "How dare you be so ungrateful!" It's about challenging the pop psychology assumptions which have become entrenched in her. (Incidentally, while there are a lot of good and thoughtful people working in the mental health field, there are also people who want to blame the parents for everything. And an awful lot of bollocks written online. )

I also agree with whoever said that she's behaving like this because she's ill, and that hypnotherapy might work. It can be really useful. Another thing which has really, really helped me has been changing my diet: it sounds daft, but more fruit and veg, a greater variety of food and avoiding UPFs has dramatically improved my mental state. Dramatically. )

Don't forget that a parent is only a human being. It doesn't sound as though you've done anything much wrong, unless you count the expression of some understandable frustration at someone behaving like an arse. But it would in any case be unreasonable for your daughter to expect you to be perfect all the time - and unreasonable for her, as an adult, to blame her own actions upon yours. As they say at primary schools these days, there are good and bad choices.

All the very best. Hold your head up high. Take care, xx

I have read the ops posts and I think the only thing she is guilty of is pandering to her. Children need to learn how to be resilient and understand not everything in life will go there way. People on here are saying a weekend a year is not enough are they mad it COSTS MONEY!

The op is taking her out and paying for her living expenses while she is in university and she don't want to talk to her that's a piss take. A lot of old school parents would have told her to fuck off and get a job because they can't afford her. She has a national insurance number she needs to use it and get a job.