DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

Raising children to be well adjusted happy individuals is a minefield. Even just reading the posts on here, where there’s so much advice and assumptions, with conflicting suggestions between posters, it’s so difficult. You raise your child to the best of your ability. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn’t. With hindsight we can all see where we might have gone wrong, but that’s something we don’t possess. And what works for one child, doesn’t for another, because in the end it’s also down to genetics and individual personalities. I raised my two dc exactly the same - one is full of confidence, lots of friends very extrovert, whilst my ds is socially awkward and the polar opposite of my daughter. You sound like you’ve been a good mum OP, and it’s not fair you’re getting a lot of negativity and blame from others.

I’m not being at all helpful I know, but you are not alone.

I put it down to too many years sat looking at themselves in the mirror and introspection.

Sadly it hasn’t improved , but they’ve re written actual history, and created their own reality, which bears little resemblance to anyone else’s.

“Recollections may vary”

@macymay123 In your initial posts you say she was under CAHMS for a year “because of teen drama”

No, that quote is incorrect. OP didn’t say that if you read it properly.

I'm not going back and forth with u on why I think this mum is not the uncaring and unloving and awful mother u seem to assume she is and u feel personally bothered by due to ur trauma. U have made many posts saying how awful she is. I think we all get the picture what ur personal opnion. I am not going to change ur mind with whatever I post.

I hope u have support for yourself .

Sure, I could be wrong. So could you. Both of us only have heard the OPs side of the story, and are judging it based on our past experiences.

Difference is that if you've misjudged the op your words may have caused harm. There is a real person behind the words. I would rather be nice to someone who didn't deserve it than horrible to someone who did.

I totally agree with this. I hated my mum being unwell in any way when I was young, I remember it feeling really scary, can’t imagine what 2 years of PND must have been like.

I have 3 children. A elder daughter, a son and a younger daughter.
The youngest is the product of my second marriage. They all consider themselves brother and sisters ' no step business involved ever. My eldest adores her little sister and always has.
However I never hear the end of how she is the golden child, she got far more freedom, she is more loved, and on it goes. Nothing I do or say will change her perception.
The boy and youngest probably did get all those things to be fair- not because they were loved more but after the huge learning curve, for me at least, after my first, I knew what I was doing. I knew how to parent and I was more confident to allow them more licence.

It's heartbreaking because I feel she has a love hate relationship with me but I've long since realised there's nothing I can do. She only has 1 child so she will never appreciate my actions. I am desperately sorry she feels this way but like most mums I'm always going to love and support her.

@Supertayto your post is very interesting to me. It seems to me that often it is the mother who is on the receiving end of vitriol and blame about upbringings and far more rarely the dad. When the dad is held responsible, it tends to be for things like actual neglect or abuse, violence, or complete emotional shutdown. Mums have to do far less to be blamed, and are often held responsible for the actions of the men in the house, as the kind of representative of the household.

I think one reason is that most of the mums I know, not all the mums in the world, but the ones I know, tend to come back time and time again to try to support their kids, give them money, and also did the majority of the parenting, even if they were not great at it. The OP here is still reaching out, trying to connect, doing activities like weekends away- the dad did not. Yet it is the mum that is blamed, and the mum that then receives the anger. If the daughter's dad received this treatment, he would probably ignore her and not reach out again. Women end up doing the majority of the household parenting, the majority of the emotional labour in the household, and this continues when they leave home.

I've seen it many times- my women friends receive very harsh criticism from their children, the men far less so, even the single mums who brought them up alone. Somehow we have a very high standard for mums (they must be emotionally present for the entire 18 years, they must be emotionally responsive, they must listen and hear bad emotions) which men are not required to do. Being a mum is all round rewarding but also a bit shit when you look at it that way.

I am not referring here to highly abusive/neglectful mums but I don't see that in my mum friends or in the OP's posts here.

If you read all Op’s posts she acknowledges the impact of her being ill (pnd) eg saying she undoubtedly got less input.

@SadandStressed3

There's a lot of responses in thus thread that seem like projection.

I think there's a lot in @Scattery 's post that seems to be well worth considering.

I'd I was yiu, I would do very little different. I wouldn't cut her off and while it's painful she only wants money and a place to stay, cutting her off only validates her perception that her parents are bad. Don't go over the top in contact but a text every do often if if you don't get a reply is worthwhile. I would also stick to the link "no one gets a text book on how to be a perfect parent, yes, I'm sure I didn't do everything right and made mistakes, but I want you to know I will always love you, always want the best for you and will always want a relationship with you".

Thinks might change in time but for now, don't make the situation any worse and keep any lines of communication open. Time and maturity may change a lot of things.

Good luck. It doesn't sound easy. (PS- my mum had PND, I am unscared & same with my siblings. Younger kids had more freedom as parents relaxed as they got older- all natural. It sounds like you did your absolute best snd are still trying to.)

@Eyesopenwideawake has hit the nail on thr head. Take her up on her offer. Strength to you and take care of yourself

Strange you mention doing up her room when she was 14. It's such a non event in the course of a loving childhood that it would only be remembered in a non loving one.

Sorry OP but there's so many suspicious tells in your post. The eyeroll, the "teenage drama", going to counseling, sent to another school. Mentioning that at the end of every session you were called in to hear how awful you were. Sounds like you feel this is unfair, but why was it happening at all? It's an extreme situation that should have been rectified by the adult (you) when she was a teen in mental health counseling.

I think you need to be honest with yourself as a parent who has likely failed her and start to rebuild your relationship.

Ignore all these spoilt kid posts. Getting a makeup table does not make a spoilt child.

Don't patronise me, thanks, and save your armchair psychology for someone who wants it.

Aren't you charming 😂 (as well as a little dim, given there was no patronising or armchair psychology either, for that matter)
@RichardsGear

OP I was physically and mentally abused as a child by my mum. To a degree that I easily should have been in care.

I know child abuse first hand very well.

My eldest told me he had a abusive childhood, he is one of four. I should have stopped with him. The second ds says I should have stopped at 2. But the urge to have children in inheritantly selfish driver. It's my life too. I wanted a family all around me to fill with love. To fill my void.

Dc3 was born with significant needs, I don't choose that. Couldn't have predicted it.

It hurts to here my son complaining I was abusive when I never neglected him. Never hit him. Indulged him in daily extra circular private clubs. Yes I was busy. Yes we was stared at in the street because of his brother.

Yes if I had been thinking of him he'd be a only child. But he isn't so what can I do? Hearing him say he had bad childhood knowing my mum regularly kicked me in the head is like someone again shitting on me from a great height and saying "But YOU deserved that".

I'm not perfect. I bit my tongue and apologised. Apologised that we don't have a pool and tennis court like his class mates. Apologised from birthing out a disabled kid.

I have a great relationship with him. We are very close. He tells me everything that any normal parent would go batshit about. In our case I wouldn't dismiss his experience. But he is ND. He is very insular and unworldly still. That his version. So if it was so bad why are we so close? Why does seek me out to cuddle me daily? It's a version. It's not the only version of a truth. My truth. His truth. Both true.

If I had a crystal ball I'd be that perfect parent that never did wrong by anyone but there is no hand book.

Ironically I told my my in my late 30's that she beat me daily. She said she never laid a finger on me. I don't know if she was trying to gaslight me or that was her honest reality. She kicked me while laying in a ball on the floor aged 4. She kicked me and punched me until she had no strength left. There's a reason multiple stab wounds stop around 30 blows. It hurts inflicting pain.

Basically YOU know the truth. As long as you can swear to yourself you didn't abuse her then you have nothing to answer too. I loved my mum. I defended my mum. I helped my mum. But my god I never cuddled her unless I was kissing her goodbye. She scared me.

Anyway I do feel for you. I know people say "but we did xyz for you! That's not abuse?" But did they listen to there teen at 1am? Did the teen seek them out? Did the mum listen to their gaming issues and offer advice knowing it would keep the door open to come to with bigger issues? Did the 16 year old tell their parents they drank over ten bottles of bud knowing mum would later laugh with them? It's not about decorating the room. It's about this stuff.

Given that you can’t go back why don’t you ask her what she would like to happen from here on. That might move her from feeling angry resentful and trying to punish you towards focussing on the reality of the relationship as it is now and how she wants to go forward. I guess you could also ask yourself the same question.

Op, everyone seems to now have an issue with their childhood, and rather than get on with life, they want to get all the attention they can. You’ve had things go on in your life which are normal occurrences in many households. There are some many who actually have horrendous childhoods who get on with life with out all the attention seeking.

If your DD isn’t happy with you having more children because it took attention away from her then it’s a her problem, not a you problem, even though you’re the one taking the brunt of it.

Let her go, and concentrate on your other children. You DD is the only one who will decide when they’ve had enough of NC, and normally it’s down to they need something.

OP said this in her first post, how is this not accepting and admitting that she's not perfect and hasn't "done everything right"?

"There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. "

She also accepts in her first post that DD is correct at least somewhat re; favourable treatment re; electronics and bedtimes;
"She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount)"

OP also admits in her first post that on one hand she wants to support and comfort and reassure, but that she's also aware there's another half of her wanting to tell her DD to stop wallowing - which she herself says isn't ideal and that she pushes that down/away as much as possible.
"the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away."

If that's "not a hint of self awareness", then I don't know what is tbh... It might not be the amount you'd like to see, but it's definitely some - and to be completely honest, even if there were arguments and stress I don't see OP's DD having a particularly awful life.
The most stressful part I can see was that she hated her school multiple times, but she was allowed to be moved.
I hated my school (forced into an all girls away from literally ALL of my friends during my teens, on top of my alcoholic and abusive parents) I felt more alone and isolated than ever... I neve had the luxury or moving schools, I just had to deal with it.

I don't see any substance abuse or physical/emotional abuse in OP's posts... Just that OP had more children and DD1 resented no longer being the only child.
Which at least from my experiences, if you came from an actual toxic childhood you'd have been very much be appreciative of having siblings, not resentful.

I'm usually fairly quick to point out someone not taking accountability, but I'm sorry - Imo I don't think OP is that type of parent in this scenario. I just don't.
I feel like OP's been very much piled on to be honest and it's a quite sad to see :/

You may need to go right back to square one. You don't think your DD has cause to feel as she does but that's kind of irrelevant as it won't change anything. Telling her (or us) that she shouldn't feel this way won't stop her. And she has felt like this for a very long time. It's not for me or anyone on here to make a judgement about which of you is being hard done by because a few examples from one point of view can't even begin to explain your DD's childhood. However, what is clear is that something has gone very wrong.
So. You can only go forward from today onwards. You don't have to agree with your DD but don't tell her that you don't. Tell her you will fully accept what she says about how she feels and you want to work with her to change things. Ask her exactly how she would move forward with you, given the choice. She may be utterly unreasonable in a way an adult would not be- send the younger siblings to live with Granny sort of thing- or she may be very insightful and explain things in a way you haven't yet realised. If she is completely unreasonable and makes impossible demands/blackmail then things will be harder but at least you'll know that the problem is with her- and you can look at what needs to be done in that direction, whether that is ASD assessments or something else.
Good luck OP.

I’m not going to comment on how she feels because personally, I think it seems like your post is missing pertinent information.

I’d like to point out that she is only 19. Her independence is still new and she may genuinely need some space to work through how she feels. I highly doubt that a 19 yo is going to commit to NC forever. Just be patient.

@Gettingbysomehow My childhood was exactly the same as yours, including the being kicked out at 16 part. I genuinely thought I'd written your post myself and forgotten

my son says this to us and he can be a victim. He has had every opportunity. we had it out with him last week and he’s been great since.

@LiveLaughCryalot You’ve made multiple accusations about “sock puppetry” in this thread - apparently the different people replying to you are all one person name changing!

This is a statement you made in your post - “ I have worked with children who have experienced trauma and please listen when I say, it has never, not once…“ positioning yourself as someone who is extremely knowledgable about trauma, and yet when I say “ So you’ve done extensive work with kids who have trauma…” you respond with “I haven't done ANY extensive work with children who have SURVIVED trauma. Please, stop making things up” - What exactly did I make up ? Don’t know why you’ve capitalised the word survived. Where in my post did I use it?

Continue calling yourself supportive and helpful while putting down everyone else who has a different perspective to you, but please, please stop calling yourself objective.