DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

Please don't let people upset you, it seems like you have enough upsetting things going on.

I can completely understand that you cannot and will not cut her off, my sister was the same with her DC who I previously mentioned and I get it. It's me that holds some resentment towards her DC for what they put her through right up until her death, that I have to keep to myself to keep the peace. I don't cut contact for her sake.

I would hate to see anyone go through their life with the amount of unfair hatred and nastiness spewed to her unfairly for reasons that were untrue or exaggerated or simply are just life (like having more than 1 kid)

Please make sure you look after your own MH as she gets older, if this situation doesn't improve, you will need to find yourself a way to cope and disengage if it gets too much. Once someone is a fully fledged adult, they need to find a way to deal with how they're feeling, whether those feelings are justified or not. You can't and shouldn't be anyone punchbag forever.

Take care.

Very well said !

So you’ve been the perfect parent. Done everything right and still for some strange reason your child doesn’t want to be in contact with you. Why could that be? Surely it must be because she’s entitled, spoilt, jealous or autistic - because it definitely couldn’t have been you isn’t it?

In your initial posts you say she was under CAHMS for a year “because of teen drama”. And when people started asking more about CAHMS you minimise it saying it was easy to get in 6 years ago. Paragraphs and paragraphs about your daughter’s attitude and behaviour. Not a single word about anything you could have done wrong.

OP, please read and re-read https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html.  Read the stately homes thread - https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/april-2023-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes. Maybe you’ll find something there.

But I doubt it. I doubt you have any self awareness, and and I doubt you are honestly looking to mend your relationship. I suspect you are here to gain some sympathy and validate your feelings.

I know I’m being extremely judgmental in this post and I'm projecting based on my previous experious, because Iike the posters in the threads above, I know someone who sounds like you all too well. And I’m not in contact with her either. And I know she’s out there saying things like this about me.

She's wallowing, self indulgent, 'teen drama,' eye roll 🙄 emoji right at the start of this. Yet you gloss over the 'very difficult' years when you had pnd.
I'd love to hear her side of this story.

Also, the sock puppetry on this thread is INSANE. I suspect its just one poster but goodness me. Even I've picked it up and I never do!

I haven’t read the whole thread, I don’t have the headspace for it, so apologies if I’m repeating anything previously said.

I think it’s time you called enough, you cannot change the past and nor can you spend the rest of your life apologising. So tell her you’re drawing a line.
It may be that your PND affected your daughter, and that she sees her siblings as the cause of the unhappiness but she is now an adult and needs to address the issue as such.
If her solution is to cut contact then let her do it, tell her a room is there if she needs it, she’s always welcome provided she obeys the house rules but that you will no longer engage in discussions about what went “wrong” in the past, and that you have apologised for the last time

Support her through uni, as far as you feel able to, but not at the expense of your other children.

She is pushing your buttons, to see how high can she can make you jump so stop playing the game. If you refuse to engage, it might give her the time to reconsider her position.

Just wanted to send hugs it seems a lot of projection on u with others issues taking it personally . I had issues with my mums treatment of me as a child (she wasn't abusive or anything, just treated me very differently to my brother. )I think it's very easy as adults (pre children) to blame our parents for how we think we should have been treated. But it's now as a parent myself, who is needing to treat my children differently (one being disabled and other having issues but not as serve. ) that u actually realise just how dam hard parenting actually is. Especially when we ourselves have stuff going on on top of that. And ive definitely softened on my thinking. From reading ur post, it curious she wants to cut u off but is happy to take ur money to fund uni and still live with u on uni hoildays. So u cannot be that bad! The fact u are asking and looking for advice I think personally makes u seem a much better parent than someone who isn't even willing to consider anything their child has said. I hope u find a solution. And maybe when she has children she will realise just how hard parenting is. And also noone should be blaming u for suffering with pmd , in same way a mother with cancer wouldn't be blamed and called childhood toxic! That's awful.

Thank you, it read exactly how my dismissive mother is too.

A few things occur to me about this situation, having had teens be very distressed about some uncontrollable and some controllable things about their childhoods/teen years.

One is- stop telling you love her all the time, and texting it daily. I would anyway, because it's quite oppressive and not reflective of the type of interaction she is seeking. One of my teens at uni does not text me except for money and if upset, although she will reply to an 'are you ok?' text, so it could be a long time in between those things, but I completely accept that some people like day to day texting and others, don't. I would back off a bit, make sure you leave the door open, text or call once a week but don't smother her with declarations of love when that's likely to provoke a raised eyebrow more than anything else.

The second is not to take all criticism personally. Sometimes teens are moaning about their lives, their emotions and things that happened to them (including bad things at home) and they just want to moan a little bit. I have a tendency, if my children are moody or difficult to immediately interpret this as a slight on me. I think it's because you try so hard as a parent, and put in 100% that it feels like a slight if they then reflect back you are either a bit rubbish or that they feel unhappy or are struggling. My daughter told me this, and I thought that was insightful- I do take things very very personally and so that can mean no-one can express either a bad mood or some dissatisfaction. Now, it may be your dd is more exaggerated in her criticism, which is upsetting, but for things like her going in her room at home, or transitory moods, you might find you are taking things more personally than is needed.

The final thing is I would get a stance, and if you feel you've had enough of being criticised, just repeat that 'DD, I'm sorry that I did X, it must have been really upsetting. I can't change the past though'. I've said to both of mine that although I hold up my hands I was not the greatest parent, especially at certain times, and I regret certain things I did as well, I'm not going to be berated or made to feel bad all the time in my own home. As adults, they need to a) moan a bit then stop otherwise it's not nice for the other person and b) seek other support such as therapy. I won't be listening to them banging on about how shit a mum I am endlessly, I'm a human, I'm a bit crap and they didn't come with a manual, so it is what it is- can we make living together as good as it can be right now?

Just some ideas to throw into the mix.

So you’ve been the perfect parent. Done everything right and still for some strange reason your child doesn’t want to be in contact with you.

No she hasn't, and she doesn't claim to be perfect or have done everything right.
Because guess what? She's a human too. Even mothers make mistakes, we are not perfect and its not fair to expect us to be!!

We just do our best, and I certainly expect and hope that my children when aged 19 will realise that, even where they might think I could have done better, everything I did was with the best intentions and they cannot and should not come first all of the time!!

OP- I hope you are ok.

you have been really flamed on this thread by some people who are clearly projecting their own issues and circumstances onto this situation.

none of us on this thread know you or your daughter, so it’s difficult for any of us to judge what has really happened.

i have an older, ND sibling. And they have been difficult from a young age, but particularly teens. Now 40’s and still blaming parents, teachers, wider family for their problems.

so to me, your viewpoint rings true and is just as likely as your daughter being genuinely neglected. The fact that her only example of poor treatment is that she had younger siblings speaks volumes.

i have no advice im afraid- only to echo other posters and say don’t forget your younger kids. But I wanted to say I believe you and what you are going through sounds incredibly tough.

Yes ur right u sound extremely projecting and not really with what the op has said at all. If she thought she was perfect she clearly wouldn't be posting on a public forum asking for help! Not one time has she mentioned she is perfect, u can't just make things up and state the poster thinks it!

@SadandStressed3 you sound like you have really tried to get through to your daughter, I am sorry you are getting flamed on here. Even feeling the need to apologise for being ill because of the affect on her. May I ask: who is looking after you in all this?
And sadly it may be time to let her go, maybe distance and time will help, but certainly I cannot see how you could have tried harder 💐

@LiveLaughCryalot So you’ve done extensive work with kids who have trauma and have never come across a parent who was responsible for the child's trauma, but said they didn't cause it? What sort of trauma work do you do? I’d guess it’s not CPTSD.

You say that some of the other posters are commenting based on something that’s untrue. Please remember that we are all only hearing OPs version of the story here, so none of us know the “truth”.

I hope you’ll take the time to read read the threads below
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/april-2023-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

I have a suggestion, which might be totally off base but a lot of what you’ve said about DH resonates.

I grew up with what could be described as a hands-off 1950s father and it is really painful/challenging to grow up with a parent who isn’t emotionally present or engaged. What you said about how your DH doesn’t text her reminded me of how my dad initiates contact/conversation extremely rarely. I’m told he loves me by my mum, but it’s hard to think of examples of his behaviour that demonstrates it. There’s no contempt or ill treatment. He just doesn’t know how to emote and therefore doesn’t. That’s hard to process when you’re a young person and is probably something I only really came to terms, or indeed realised, with when I had my own children. How it manifested during my teens especially is that I was ludicrously fucking angry with my mum. I absolutely loathed her and would (and did) describe my relationship with her as toxic/complicated/damaged etc. In hindsight, I was angry with her because I didn’t know how to be angry with my dad who is the human embodiment of a grey rock. It’s hard to fight with someone who gives you absolutely nothing back.

My uninformed opinion, would be to start there. Is she battering you with her pain because she is hurt/upset by him being so hands off? Are you her safe person to take it all out on? You say she wasn’t emotionally neglected by you during your PND, but perhaps ask the question if she was in your absence because your DH didn’t fill the gap?

Sorry to hear you're going through this. It could be the perfect storm of issues you had that you struggled though, personality differences, and her own mental health issues which could be innate - not everyone acquires mental health issues through upbringing alone. Also, the most upset party is not always the person who's in the right. Does she take after anyone else in the family who was like this when they were younger?

Some elder children, particularly if the gap is several years, never get over the younger one being born. They are able to remember and compare their lives before their siblings were born, and some never get over the resentment if their lives were worse off afterwards. My sister never did. She never liked me, and it's only in my late 20s did I realise that the problem wasn't just different personalities - she resented me being born and it was easier for her to project that resentment onto me that onto our mum. I also realised that short of me being terminally ill, she would always find something about me to be jealous or resentful about, even though I'd say my life has turned into a bit of a shit show compared to hers. It doesn't matter - it's irrational.

Your daughter is rightly or wrongly hurt and angry.
Prove to her that she is not 'disposable; and try and build bridges,
Do you contact her at university?
Is she4 happy at uni?

I think everyone commenting on this will be swayed by their own experiences here. My mother would probably write something very similar to you here and I’ll never see her again. I spent a very long time trying to explain my perspective to her and at every turn she shot back with how my perception was wrong/she had done everything right as a mum /I was spoiled, overdramatic etc

From my perspective - if your daughter is telling you that she found her childhood unhappy then you can and should listen to her and try to genuinely self-reflect on this. She is your child and you must realise there’s a lot at stake here. Just because she was a child it doesn’t make her recollection invalid. The way your write about her seems quite self defensive and, to be honest, cruel to me. I would start by apologising and then listening to her

my nephew is smilair left to live wit his dad because apparently my dsis doesnt take any notice of im only his sister-its not tru at all wats different is hhis fathher encourages his rants about money and hhow much is spent on hhim-and hhow much is spent on his sister
your situation is sligtly different but i dont see how you sould accept tratment like this from her and still expect to give hhher money wnever se asks but ave no contact

weve all felt at some point we're treated different when its not true

A 5 year old suddenly losing 1-2-1 time with mum and mum focusing almost all attention on a new born is a big deal.

Then for mum to have a new born and toddler taking up a lot of her time and then to get PND which is all consuming, yes she was neglected.

You have to look at this from a child’s point of view.

your daughter isn’t telling you this with the reason and understanding of a 19 year old young adult.

she is telling you this with the resentment and loss, neglect and huge upheaval she had from the feelings and memories of a 5yo child. One who would’ve just started school and then in her eyes was ‘replaced’ by two new babies.

also, with her did you put her in nursery and return to work quickly or were you a stay at home mum?

with the younger two we’re you at work sending them to nursery too or a stay at home mum?

the reason this is important is because from her 5yo child perspective if you didn’t give up work to stay home with her but you did the younger two you did treat her differently and she would’ve felt unwanted or not good enough.

we adults can rationalise financial decisions like that children cannot.

think like a child.

Op hasn’t said she’s perfect. She sounds like a working mum with 3 children’s needs to balance, a husband who worked away, ill for a few years and dealing with the school move and taking her daughter to counselling.
It’s very easy to criticise and judge as a 19 year old with limited life experience. We are all perfect parents until we have to walk the walk.
My guess is the daughter is struggling at uni and unhappy and looking at someone or something to blame.
Good luck to you all.

@Duggeehugs82 I've seen several paragraphs of OP complaining about the her daughter's behaviour, and absolutely nothing that shows she could be in the wrong. Please show me anything that OP has said that shows any self awareness or anything that where she says she might have done something wrong.

And all the thinly veiled attempts at demonising her daughter -"I spent 2wks in hospital after an accident caused slow internal bleeding and I collapsed a day later. I think it must have been scary for all of us and I did ask if she was ok and sought to reassure her afterwards but she accused me of being over dramatic so I don’t know how she really felt." She accused me of being over dramatic so I don’t know how she really felt! Do you really think OP wrote this to discuss her daughter's feelings? or to show how her daughter is mean/rude and OP is the poor victim? Some of us can see right through the BS.

I'm sure you haven't taken the time to read the links I shared.

I'd love to hear what her daughter has to say, but sadly we only have one side of the story.

@Dixiechickonhols please show me some examples from OPs post where she thinks she hasn't done all the right things. I have read the first 5 or 6, and haven't seen a hint of self awareness

You and all the other angry aggressive vituperative posters: this isn’t about you and your mother.

@macymay123 what if you're wrong? What if the OP is nothing like your mum and you've just put the boot into someone who is trying their best for their daughter?