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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

672 replies

SadandStressed3 · 21/02/2024 12:17

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

OP posts:
CuriousD · 21/02/2024 18:39

beatrix1234 · 21/02/2024 18:34

I'm going to tell my boss I never liked him, that it's a toxic environment and walk out of the office for good. I'm also going to tell him I expect my full salary while I'm at home looking for a better job.

Jokes apart... your DD needs to start learning some hard life lessons.

I can think of a few employees over the years that I wished had actioned this tactic when I was their boss. I might have been able to support them to leave sooner.

😆 😆

DrBlackbird · 21/02/2024 18:39

SadandStressed3 · 21/02/2024 18:07

@Twatalert, I’m not going to engage with you further. I’ve listened to everyone on here despite much of it being hurtful. I’ve accepted I’m not perfect continuously.

I have at no point suggested my daughter is either ‘an idiot’ or that she cannot be trusted. In fact, I’ve stated that she never lies and thus her truth is her truth even if it upsets me. I feel you are being deliberately rude. I started the thread for support yes for me and my relationship with my DD but also out of concern for DD. I’ve gone through my adult life without any family other than my husband and then my children. I do not want that for her and deep down I’m not convinced she does either so I don’t want it to come to that.

You’ve said how you feel. Please stop now as you are completely misrepresenting how I feel about DD or act towards her. Yes I’m upset but I’ve stated in the thread in the hope of getting as much advice as possible to improve things. Not to be misquoted and misrepresented.

Please ignore the posters laying the blame on you. It’s a favourite pastime of too many MNers. Sorry that I haven’t got advice and only sympathy.

There seems to be a lot of toxic childhood/narcissistic mothers narrative. Often young adults who are ASD tend to be highly suggestible and will rewrite history. So if she’s heard this narrative enough and held this belief for a long time then it will be entrenched. People can genuinely hold untrue beliefs.

I know of a dear friend who bent over backwards to be there and support her kids when they were growing up and who turned against her and accuse her of toxicity. Heartbreaking. This was patently untrue and in this case, it was the father who managed to turn the DSs against her.

Im sure you’ve read articles on estranged children. There are loads and a book with case studies of reconciled relationships. Be sure to look after yourself 💐

OverTheBridges · 21/02/2024 18:39

I’m genuinely shocked and appalled at the sight of dozens of women lining up to namecall a teenage girl or anyone who questions the narrative of her badness.

This thread highlights the internalised misogyny that is still rife in these supposedly modern times, and on a mothers site - staggering!

Toppppop · 21/02/2024 18:40

My dd is similar - on asd/adhd pathway
Blames on having younger sister. 3y age gap but seems to remeber before.
Everything is unfair.
The reality - dd was very difficult from birth. She wouldnt listen to no or any instruction - similar to pda.
But she struggled at nursery at 16m so much we took her out. Needed watching more than that environment.
At 3 restarted at in trouble many times - it was very stressful.
Started school at 4 and issues there.
So whilst my dd blames dc2 in fact the issues were much earlier.

I do think people can only see from their perspective.
I expect dh thinks he helps with cleaning etc (he does less than 1%)

Dc1 actually gets more attention as having to support through sats now secondary. And during covid spent most of the day doing her maths and other work!

It can be tricky with an age gap and gap in interests.

Does your dd have friends?

Mine self harms but its more an absence of pain and like a stim...

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/02/2024 18:40

beatrix1234 · 21/02/2024 18:34

I'm going to tell my boss I never liked him, that it's a toxic environment and walk out of the office for good. I'm also going to tell him I expect my full salary while I'm at home looking for a better job.

Jokes apart... your DD needs to start learning some hard life lessons.

Your parents aren't employers and you don't have a parent-child contract with them. Your parents chose to create you, it's not like you had a say in it, so the comparing the parent-child relationship to a willingly-signed employment contract is intellectually dishonest.

I've just realised that that's where my disquiet with the "cut her money off" crowd comes from. You chose to create your child: they owe you nothing whatsoever for your choice.

jm9138 · 21/02/2024 18:40

You know the number of threads on here where someone moans about their mother/father/MIL/FIL and gives so many examples of how awful they behave yet and/or their partner seem (and am sure are) lovely people. So it appears that awful parents can have perfectly well adjusted, kind and happy children. I would hazard a guess that the opposite is true, which is supported by other threads where posters are saying how awful their siblings are to their parents who are kind and supportive.

Some children take a while to work out the world does not revolve around them and not all of them (in fact probably the majority) are not neurodivergent. Some adults never work that out despite the best intentions of their parents and people around them. Or are we to believe that every violent, emotionally abusive, selfish person is only that way because of their childhood and if only they had a more loving parent it would always have been better? It sort of takes free will out of the equation.

The OP loves her daughter and clearly worries about her and done everything she can to support her. Nothing at all she has done is suggestive to me that is at all reasonable that her daughter goes NC with her.

Hankunamatata · 21/02/2024 18:41

This reminds me of someone I know. The dh exactly like yours - totally uninvolved and very little connection with the kids due to working away so much ( just didn't know them as he wasn't there doing the school runs or playdates or bedtimes). Wife could not understand why the children pulled away as teens and very disgruntled adults. All the kids thought the other was the favourite etc

The kids were spoilt materialistically, given all the things they wanted.

From the outside I couldn't understand why then I really got to know the mum. She was incredibly negative about everything, the glass was aways half empty. She is critical and isn't scared of sharing her strong opinions. Things had to be her way. She made the kids her life and was very disgruntled when the teenagers wanted to do their own thing

I would go to therapy op and talk it through yourself

lovelysoap · 21/02/2024 18:42

She's young and in the best way she can she is expressing the hurt and pain of what it was like for her between 7-9 when you had the dark times. This has obviously affected her.
That sounds like a truly awful time for all the family and it was no ones fault. She blames you as the parent figure but in time when she has a bit more life experience i hope she realises that PND is not your fault and that the 'solution' or the fault was not having more children although she probably felt like that at the time.
Her continued pain is understandable but her blaming isn't reasonable. I hope in time she comes to understand that and move on.

SweetcornFritter · 21/02/2024 18:42

Surfapparel · 21/02/2024 16:09

To those saying anyone disagreeing with OP is just being unkind, bear in mind that we are the perspective from the other side and having to read post after post like this. OP said she wanted to fix her relationship with her DD so perspectives from the other side would presumably be helpful even if they can be painful to read. Seek first to understand then to be understood. Maybe I am projecting onto OP - but I can definitely see signs of invalidation and dismissiveness in the reporting of her daughter's concerns.

Don’t cry Op, there are just a lot of nasty judgmental bullies on Mumsnet but equally there are people here who totally get where you’re coming from and understand how hard it must be for you. I don’t have much advice to offer other than that I have two kids, the older one is female and deeply resented the arrival of her younger brother and we too have had a rocky relationship over the years but she is in her mid 20s now and considers me her best friend as I do her. Things will hopefully improve as your daughter matures. Always be there for her, keep reaching out to her, she will come round I’m sure.

sorry, quoted the wrong post!

changedagain67543 · 21/02/2024 18:43

Op there is a LOT of therapy speak out there at the moment, from various psychologists and therapists on Instagram etc surrounding trauma in childhood. Some of it is amazing and helpful but I think it’s leading a lot of teens to declare themselves having been subject to traumatic childhoods because they didn’t get bought a pony or whatever.

It sounds to me like your DD has latched on to this and has got this idea in her head. I don’t think she’s a brat either, she is young and lashing out. I’m not sure what you can do but perhaps seeing a therapist yourself to come up with some strategies to help you deal with all this might help. So sorry you’re going through this.

CockSpadget · 21/02/2024 18:43

All I will say is that children don’t “orphan” themselves lightly.

ZsaZsaTheCat · 21/02/2024 18:45

MeMyCatsAndMyBooks · 21/02/2024 12:24

Personally she wants her cake and eat it, doesn't want anything to do with you but wants to support her through university?

I'd say that's fine if she wants to cut contact however to support what she wants you will no longer support her financially.

Give it a few weeks she'll come back apologising. She sounds extremely spoilt.

Whatever else is going on I think the parents should support her through uni. Otherwise it’s ’strings attached’ !

ColumboTheBestDetective · 21/02/2024 18:45

Theedgeoftheabyss · 21/02/2024 17:56

Bloody ... Hell. What an actual cesspit this is. Leave the OH alone, this is absolutely exhausting to follow. None of us are perfect. We don't have to sacrifice ourselves on the altar of validation. Sometimes we have to accept things and move on.

I had to check to make sure this wasn't in AIBU because some of the posts (clearly lacking comprehension of the OP's posts, or deliberately putting a different spin on them) are vile.

I'm amazed the OP is still here.

Only a parent who cares, and who wants to make a positive difference to the current status quo would put up with the awful assumptions made here by posters who don't know her, or her daughter. That's not to say their own experiences lack validity - clearly they don't - but some of the sweeping judgements made here against the OP (and - again, some of the huge mis-readings of the OP's actual words, rather than perceived connotations) are distressing to read.

And yes, I do have experience. I won't say how or on which 'side' (because it isn't really about sides, be that parent/child, child/school/ parent/school/ CAMHS/family etc.) but ime, no one who really wants help will put themselves 'out there' like the OP has done. In fact, they'll hide everything, and prevent the world from getting even the slightest glimpse into their world.

OP, I wish you and your family (all of you) well.

11oclockrock · 21/02/2024 18:46

I can't get over that for 2 years OP had PND and three small children and her husband STILL worked away during that time. Awful.

It seems strange that all these issues seem to be about the mothers behaviour and the absent father doesn't get a mention.

I sense that the DD knows she is unhappy but doesn't genuinely know why - possibly due to undiagnosed ND.

Scattery · 21/02/2024 18:47

ToucherGouterPlus · 21/02/2024 17:31

@Scattery and others that feel ASD might be at play here, would you explain a little more please? Genuinely interested.

Yes fair enough! Obviously please know I am not a psychologist, or any sort of professional - just a woman in her forties who flew under the radar but definitely would have been dx'd as a child in this day and age. A variety of aspects struck me from the OP's posts but the main one was depression in her DD's early teens and struggles in secondary which is often classic in autistic girls, especially ones who are bright/academic. Because of that academic capability, often our emotional struggles are written off or minimised - and this I think can REALLY flare up later in life due to delayed processing. Ever go through a situation and think, later, "well, THAT was unfair!" Yeah, this happens a lot with us, and I'd say it's very likely it's happening with OP's DD. Except OP's DD seems to be hyperfocusing (another autism trait) on her childhood and the specific unfairnesses like extra internet time/different holidays. This strikes me as her DD trying to "logic" her way out of an emotional situation (which again tends to be an autism-specific thing).

If, emotionally, someone is wrecked, sometimes one looks to the outside to explain why. Call it wrongly directed blame, call it desperation, call it misdirected focus, it's hard to say. University years can be BLOODY hard for autistic folk, we're fed the idea of "here's where you get lifelong friends!" but in reality our executive function is getting HAMMERED by things we never had to do before (food shopping, bills, planning, classes/lectures, so where's our ideal university experience?? Nowhere! Why? Is it my fault? Whose fault is it? How can we solve it? Oh god. Is it the way I was brought up? Am I screwed up for life? What CAUSED this?). So now you're looking at childhood causes because holy fuck, is adulting hard. How is everyone else cruising through? Making friends and going out for drinks effortlessly? Especially, ESPECIALLY, if one was a "gifted" child, because many academic things came so easily to us, why can't THIS - being an adult? Forging relationships? And then one turns inward... this is honestly why I say it's so important to look at brain wiring because if you are ND trying to be NT in a NT-focused world, it is so bloody hard.

And then the final reason I thought of autism was that OP's DD's dad is an engineer who doesn't tend to make small talk and isn't a people person. That... is my dad all through (minus the engineer aspect. He was a mechanic). The conversations we have? They're all fact-based. Very little emotion. I love him so much! But if I ever went to him with relationship issues, or feelings, he would be a deer in the headlights! But lots and lots of autism is genetic and engineering is a classic autistic male occupation (my son is autistic and aiming for mechanical engineering) and so that to me was another flag.

Listen, take this with a grain of salt. Take it with two, or three. I have nothing but sympathy for both OP and her DD. I think they are both trying. Trying HARD. I think OP's DD will find her niche in life and spread her wings and begin to fly, and somewhere down the line they will be able to sit in a cafe together and speak of shared interests. I think the OP should not rule out autism....nor ADHD. (I have one child with each, but they can easily be co-occurring conditions). I think the OP should practice radical self-care as much as possible, and realize that blame is easy to throw around when one is struggling to make sense of one's identity. I am off now to have a glass of wine and I may not check back for some time - it's been a rough day parenting my ADHD girl and I'll likely be easily bruised if I come back to hard words (this is not my way of shutting anyone up or preventing posts, just me saying I might not respond), but thank you for asking that question, @ToucherGouterPlus and OP, I'm wishing you all the very best.

Mumofthreeteenagers · 21/02/2024 18:48

My heart i aching reading your posts op. Mumsnet can be an awful place and what I'm reading is horrible.

I can see you write factually, probably because of your job, so people are seeing this as demeaning, impersonal. But, I feel sad because its being used against you. No one knows you, so cannot know what's going on. Just interpreting your writing style incorrectly.

Re your daughter - I wonder if its a cry for attention. Like using this emotion to haul you over. She might be lonely and crying out for someone. But you are her safe space. She can literally wrangle every last drop of guilt from you. You have consistently acknowledged and accepted it all. Your husband is hapless in that it doesn't bother him and it sounds like he hasn't stepped up to stop her. So no protection for you.

My daughter is 20. She turned when she went to university. Everything on her terms. She barely talks to me but takes everything. I cry often about it all but she cannot see anything wrong. Just reading your pain brings up what I try and manage (badly). She is awaiting asd assessment. But that isn't the sole reason imo.

I wonder if you are entering menopause? I feel my coping has disappeared since I did. You sound like you need to be kinder to you. Be more selfish with your own emotions? Maybe by doing this, it might give you some coping capacity? And she can see she can no longer rinse your emotions out.

You can't stop her going no contact but you also need to manage your other 2. Don't let it affect you all. I personally would still pay for her. Still do all the contact etc but not force her to be part of the family if she doesn't want to. Offer her, include her. But expect no to be the answer and leave it. Go, have fun. Enjoy your other teens. Invest in them too.

Hopefully, one day, she will see you were consistent and living. But you can't make her see that. She has to want to.

But, sending you a virtual hug and support. You need to look after you and not be adversely affected by a bunch of people who don't know you. Don't flog yourself if you do not deserve it. What would you tell a friend you know if it was them?

Newchapterbeckons · 21/02/2024 18:48

I have read all of your posts op.
I came to say I have a dd of the same age. I think they were hit by the pandemic extremely badly, and some seem to have developed a victim complex. That their lives are worse than others, everything is awful for them. It comes up a lot with dd friends.

In your position I would thank her for sharing her thoughts and feelings. You are always there to talk to, and say although you understand it’s been hard for her at times - she is very loved by all of you and keep saying it.

It sounds like she is kicking against your love, testing it - maybe she didn’t have the chance to do this at 15 in the lockdown, some delayed boundary testing, and it’s happening now. I would keep going with the fact you love her, and always will.

I would continue with financial and emotional support until she finishes university. If she still wants to cut ties, then she can - but she will have to support herself. You have a few years to iron this out. Family counselling is a good idea.

19 is a trickier age than I anticipated too! How is she doing at uni? Is she struggling?

Redwineislife · 21/02/2024 18:49

@SadandStressed3 oh my goodness, I don’t have advice but you do not deserve the horrid responses you have received. Sending you lots of love 💐

Dixiechickonhols · 21/02/2024 18:49

The daughter isn’t walking away though? She’s saying I’ll take your money and live with you all holidays (about 20 weeks a year) but not engage with you or join in family life.
She’s an adult and could work plus loan to fund uni and go to camp America or something each summer.
Instead everyone is walking on eggshells waiting for her to blow up.

WonderingWanda · 21/02/2024 18:55

Araminta1003 · 21/02/2024 14:15

Are your other 2 children really close to each other? Could it be that she has not healed from the initial trauma of your other children being born and the intense jealousy at the time?

So she was deeply attached to you before they were born and then that attachment was broken because you had PND and were busy with babies so you were absent in her mind, even when you were with her? Have you offered to do therapy and inner child work with her?

I would be looking into attachment disorders in highly sensitive children.

I think this is very sensible advice. Non the surface of it your dd doesn't seem to have horrendous complaints that really warrant the label of toxic childhood but these views and feelings of hers are coming from somewhere. Attachment disorders are the starting point for lots of mental health issues. I know this must be hard for you, you didn't ask for PND and you suffered too but you have to remember that your dd isn't really fully grown up yet and if she has struggled won't be mature enough to really get it from your perspective.

Illstartexercisingtomorrow · 21/02/2024 18:56

Ilovelurchers · 21/02/2024 18:31

Don't know if you will see this OP - I just wanted to express sympathy. I love my daughter more than I ever imagined possible - I'd gladly give my life for her - I am sure you feel the same or similar. I can hardly imagine therefore the heartbreak you must feel.

However, much as I love her, I hope I would never allow her to emotionally abuse me as your daughter appears to abuse you. Taking your money, living in your house, yet refusing to interact - this is financial and emotional abuse, surely?

If you tolerate and accept it you do her no favours - you teach her that selfishness and cruelty to those who love her are acceptable forms of behaviour.

Heart-breaking as it would be, I would make it clear that you are a human being with feelings as valid as hers, and that you will not be abused and exploited in this way. The impact on your younger two of her behaving like this must also be hideous! Then I think you must stop paying for her, or letting her live in your home. Make it clear that you love her and she is always welcome back when she decides to stop being abusive.

And if she shows any willingness to relent, definitely pay for some counselling if you can afford it.

^This

You don’t need to keep apologising to her for either being ill or an imperfect parent.

I think she knows you will keep running after her to ‘fix’ her problems, and she is using this to control and manipulate you.

I agree you need to set some boundaries, she also needs to realise you have feelings too. She sounds very immature, and whilst she may have some very complicated feelings I really don’t think it’s all because of you.

RegardingMary · 21/02/2024 18:58

I'm quite shocked at the things you've made a big deal sbout which generally parents just do.

  • taking her shopping
  • decorating her room

Referring to her mental health issues as 'teen drama' and not making tinecfor her on holidays. Of course things like the breed resentment.

VeneziaJ · 21/02/2024 18:58

The one thing I would say is that most parents try their absolute best with the knowledge and resources available to them and in the society they live in.
My parents made mistakes (as did I as a parent) and when I had my own children I finally realised the truth of that statement, their views of parenting were formed by the generation they grew up in, the knowledge they could access and the resources they had. To judge our parents by our now further knowledge of children's mental health and development and in the light of a different societal culture of parenthood, is inequitable and not helpful. Of course there are certain timeless mistakes we can all make and parents should acknowledge those, but thats it in my opinion.

midgexoxo · 21/02/2024 19:00

Just my two cents - I have been recently diagnosed with autism, and many of the things your DD does strike a chord ( not diagnosing at all obviously). I had very rigid thinking growing up, especially with my (older) brother - everything had to be equal at all times. I’m not going to pass judgement on your parenting at all, as I don’t think it’s my place.

Growing up undiagnosed neurodivergent can be very traumatic in itself (being an alien to the world around you) and perhaps she is placing the blame on the most ‘obvious’ thing she can think of, her brothers.

I massively struggled at uni, was in CAMHS, and visibly self harmed when I was young as well. It could be that her trying to cut you off - albeit very unpleasant for you - is her trying to establish independence in an extreme way.

For a little while, I also had a tricky relationship with my very loving mum and distant, quiet dad, so I recognise a lot of her traits.

Hopefully things get better for you and her, and maybe you could bring up ASD when you’re both in a better place x

Scarletttulips · 21/02/2024 19:01

VeneziaJ

Im not disagreeing with you, but todays teens are very different from my teen years - they do love all the drame they create and blame others - they are in a social media show off type age and it’s bad on their mental health - not their parents fault - their own making