DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

This book title has sprung to mind.

How much are you topping up her loan op?

The therapist did not consider she was at risk of self harming as the small cuts were visible and DD was keen to show. She said we should keep alert but that YP who self harm do not present this way.

I don't understand this. YP who self-harm present in all different kinds of way. Self-harm is self-harm no matter what the reason is for doing it. Even if it was "just" for attention, there would have been a reason for why she felt like she needed attention.

Don't patronise me, thanks, and save your armchair psychology for someone who wants it.

Hi OP, I do feel for you, what a difficult situation to be in. I haven't RTFT, sorry, but I wonder if she's struggling at uni and taking it out on you as well? I don't know anyone whose first year was easy.

I think all you can do is keep telling her you love her, keep showing her you love her, acknowledge her feelings but you don't necessarily have to agree with everything she says. I think "I'm really sorry, I do know that some of your childhood was difficult and I'm sorry. I did my best at the time but I know a lot of it was tough" and keep reminding her of the good stuff too.

And keep doing all of that and maybe, at some point, she'll come back to you. And realise that it wasn't all bad and that some of it is dramatic retelling of her own making.

We're all doing our best and teenagers are so difficult compared to easy peasy toddlers but no one tells us that! Good luck and I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

I can see several other posters re-posted this. But I felt I had too as well.

Your poor daughter (OPs, not the person I have quoted!)

I also think IIWY I would send her cards, texts, photos, just small reminders that you're there and want to have contact with her.

Sorry, to those of you that asked about DH. Firstly, he is father to all 3 kids. He is very placid and not as hands on as me. He is an engineer as has worked away during the week for a lot of her life. He loves all 3 children but he doesn’t understand DD at all and thinks if she wants to cut away we should let her as she’s 19yrs and an adult. They don’t really talk much at all because he doesn’t ever instigate conversation with her in so much as he won’t go and knock on her bedroom door when she’s home or send her small talk messages when she’s away. On the rare occasion that she’s downstairs he’ll try and start a conversation about to or uni or if she’s going out or whatever but she answers in a monosyllabic way and that’s the end of it. His relationship with the younger two is probably better because they’re both sociable especially the youngest who just wants to chat all the time. The best way I can describe DH is like one of those very reserved but very gentle and loving 1950s fathers if that makes sense. He did hugely struggle when I was ill and if circumstances had been different we may have had a mum or mother in law or sister to help out but sadly we had none of those.

The phrase “toxic childhood” is something that I’ve only seen on social media and the person discussing it often describes a childhood that isn’t centred on them as opposed to the phrases abusive or dysfunctional stories which actually range from fucking awful to crappy and deserved better.

You wouldn’t be unreasonable to ask if no contact means no financial and uni holiday support because her idea of NC is obviously bullshit.

Please…I’m happy to take it all on the chin but please can everyone stop saying I referred to the CAMHS sessions as teen drama. I was saying there was teen drama and CAMHS. I may not have said that clearly enough in my op but that was absolutely the case and I’ve sought to clarify that in subsequent posts.

Oh, blah. This is clearly part of the ‘overanalyse every part of my life and deem everyone in it a toxic narc so I can play the victim’.

I am one of 4 children, and have steps as well. I’ve never felt they’ve ruined my life because of less holidays we even shared rooms, shock horror!

She’s a spoiled little madam who should go cry to her Tik Tok pals and realise how hard life is without your help. Surely she wouldn’t accept financial support from somebody she deems so toxic? 🙄 Withdraw the money and say given how she feels about you, you’re worried she will see it as a form of control in future years. Tell her you’re setting her free and best of luck to her, and you hope her life will be much happier without you.

And then wait…

As I said earlier, I do think there’s a strong possibility that she has ASD or at least many traits. I think because she’s a very confident, very articulate, very academically able young woman, it masks her difficulties. Perhaps, as suggested a few times, I’ll ask her if she’d like to look at this again now she’s an adult.

I think it’s worth following up although she may just be bright and very sensitive without being on the spectrum. I think it was a mistake to listen teachers on that as they are not specialists in ASD. A friend of mine, who is an NHS psychiatrist, is trying to get the diagnostic criteria for ASD changed as it presents so differently in girls and leads to misdiagnosis. Girls typically have friends and friendship groups, are better at masking, and if they’re academically able and their academic work is not obviously affected, ASD can be missed.

Otherwise she may just be an averagely unhappy teen who chooses to blame her parents rather than take responsibility for her own issues. It’s fairly common and could happen to any parent on the thread.

It’s interesting that she feels such strong resentment of her younger siblings particularly her view that she could have had more money and holidays without them. It’s an oddly emotionally disconnected approach and very strongly self-centred even for a teen.

This could go one of two ways.

You could be under-playing things and actually have things to apologise for.

That said, she could be one of those entitled young adults who actually think the world revolves around them.

I think you need to go back to counselling, together, and if she refuses then stop her financial assistance.

If you don't deal with this she she could continue this narrative forever and move on from all of you.

Would she describe her father as "gentle and loving"? Or would it be absent and uninterested...?

I really think you need to try look at her childhood through her eyes. Not yours.

Have you posted about your DD before @SadandStressed3

I agree with you.

My opinion is that the daughter is a spoilt entitled brat. Whinging about nothing. And that the OP is foolishly bending over backwards, making a rod for her own back. To me OP sounds like a lovely mother. If she were not the other chil’adrénaline would have issues. Her eldest is jealous of her siblings and angry they meant she didn’t get full attention as an only child.

She is also insincere, because she says she will come home every holiday. If it’s hell, why come home. I’d be cutting the financial enabling if I were OP.

Totally agree, the op sounds like she's been a great mother and has had it all thrown back in her face. I hope Op ignores all the hatred on here, sounds like her daughter has battered her down for long enough.

I wouldn’t. It’ll turn into ‘you tried to force a diagnosis on me, gaslighter‘. You offered, she said no, leave it there.

My childhood wasn’t great. I was 41 when my mother for the first time said “I love you” - 41 years too late. Nothing can heal the past, I just accept that my past happened and move on. I don’t have much contact with my mum but I do a little of what is expected eg the phone call and occasional visit. I prefer to spend my time being in contact with my children (though this has not been easy at times) and my friends who genuinely care about me. I hold no guilt regarding my lack of relationship with my mother as I have learned that life is short.

You sound like a lovely mum OP. Your daughter sounds unhappy and is looking to
place the blame somewhere. I hope she realises that she has to look at herself and not you.

Ignore anyone who hasnt seen your many updates on the Camhs and teen drama rather than camhs teeb drama. Their comments are not relevent if they have missed that key point and they are upsetting you.

Your dd had a great childhood, there were harder times but she was not emotionally neglected. I would nod along apologetically and let her keep a distance try not to give this much attention eg "door is always open, but I am respecting your need for low contact until you tell me otherwise" then leave her to it. She will hopefully work through it. At least still home for the holidays and hopefully will get back to normal.

She sounds immature and hopefully as she grows up she will remember she is loved and everyone was doing their best.

I could not agree more. The angst this mother is feeling jumps off the page.

I despair when other women behave this way towards someone doing her best. It is bullying, plain and simple and many posts on this thread are vile and the posters should reflect on why they felt the need to post them.

Or a bit of both. I’m sure most teens think their parents have things to apologise for: “that time you…” Equally she does seem to take a more than usual self-centred approach to family: “if you hadn’t had more kids you’d have more time and money for meee”

The immature attitude to life is: what can you do for me; the mature attitude is: what can I do for you. She’s very much stuck in the former.

I’d be inclined to give her all the space she needs and avoid pressuring her to do anything like counselling with her - it will just be more grist to her mill of injustice and mistreatment.

I’d also wager she’ll be back later when she’s sorted herself out. And when she’s figured out other people have things a lot, lot tougher.

@HollyKnight, CAMHS, did not view the incident as SH. I trusted their judgment but I’ve kept a look out ever since.

And yes, she would probably agree with that assessment if her dad. She’s a bit contemptuous towards him and has called him pathetic before to try and get a rise but she mostly doesn’t bother as it doesn’t work. Her main problem, that she told the CAMHS counsellor, was me and me having the younger children and the fact that she seems to believe my treatment of the three of them isn’t fair or balanced. She’s referenced gifts or treats saying theirs cost more or they’ve had more. This is 100% untrue but it’s her perception. She is actually obsessed by fairness-in friendship terms as well as at home. Bring a it up a lot when she has a fall out.

Although I absolutely disagree with her assessment of her childhood, as a child she was never able to lie about anything so I don’t think she’s just making it up to be difficult or because she’s spoilt. She obviously believes it to be the truth which is why I’m so upset by it all.

All we can do is our best. I have been accused similarly by one of mine and it cuts deep. But they seem to have outgrown this now, and realise how, actually, their childhood wasn’t so bad after all! Don’t let everyone here grind you down, you have done so much for your daughter, you’re coming across as very honest and humble - take all of this criticism with a pinch of salt. What about YOUR feelings? Continue to support your daughter but maybe one day she’ll grow up and realise she didn’t have it so bad after all.

How times have changed.
I'm in my 40s but I couldn't imagine laying into my mother like that and if I'd told her I wanted no contact she'd have waved me goodbye.
But in those days children showed their parents respect and appreciation these days it's the other way around.
I think you need to show your dd that you respect yourself and show her how you'll accept being treated and spoken to.
Maybe then she'll learn from you some boundaries and how to expect others to treat her in the future.