DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

Financial worries, arguments, stress, a depressed mother, an absent father for most of the week...two years of that is a significant length of time at her age. Children don't have the ability to process these things like adults do so obviously it had an impact on her. In a very simple way, life was better before the younger children came along, so it is understandable that a child would see that as the source of it all. She needed help to deal with all this long before CAHMS got involved. By that stage, she had been living with these feelings unsupported. She is only 19 now. It's still going to take time. She's not a spoilt brat. She's just a girl who has been struggling with her feelings since she was little.

I think this is very good advice.

And probably the only on this thread I’d follow tbh

I did not say she was an awful person, I do think she reports this situation in a way that makes me very suspicious though. I think she is focused on how she feels and my guess would be that she does invalidate her daughter's feelings. Maybe the daughter truly is just in the wrong, but if OP wants to mend fences then the most productive thing she could do is listen without judgement or defensiveness.

Oh OP. You've had such a rough ride on here. I really feel for you as this sounds like such a hard situation and I can't see that you've done anything wrong from what you've said.

Are you getting any support/ therapy in this? My DC are younger (tween), but I've struggled witih parenting (also had PND after DC2) and it's only now that I'm coming to terms with it through getting some excellent therapy. It's really helping me work through my relationships with them, my guilt over not being 'good enough' as a parent (and a whole host of other shit from my own childhood). I'd hazard that maybe you have some of the same feelings too?

Other than that - I think all you can do with your DD is love her unconditionally (as you clearly do). Much in the same way as when my 8yo tells me he hates me and wishes I was dead, I tell him that I love him and nothing he can say to me will ever change that. Perhaps with your DD trying to push you away, you need to let her know that you will always love her, will always be there for her, no matter what she says or does?

Is that what she said? I didn't perceive it that way. I am sure they will survive without your judgement and expert "advice"

@SadandStressed3 i’m so sorry you are going through such a terrible time.. this tread is extremely harsh in places.

Your DD seems to be one of a generation that think they were owed a Disney childhood. Family life is not a bed of roses but by no means does it sound like you or your DH made her childhood unhappy.
Giving your DD everything she desires/suits her hasn’t made her happy… nor has it made you happy.

OP, I think it's clear that nothing you say here will be good enough and that some posters are very obviously using you as an emotional punchbag for their own stuff. The irony, eh?

I don't think you need to keep justifying yourself. I wish you all the very best in a terribly difficult, heartbreaking situation

My god. You really will twist anything the OP says. Has it even crossed your mind to consider that you might be misreading the OP and the effect your words could be having if you are?

I did, and I stand by it.

Most everyone goes through a 'rough patch' at various times in their lives.

Many do at uni as it can be a huge adjustment. Been there, done that, myself.

Most, however, don't treat the people who have spent their lives loving and supporting them, like absolute shit as a response. Coupled with the audacity to announce they want nothing to do with you, blame you for EVERYTHING wrong in their lives, even the fact they had to gasp share their childhood with siblings, but still want your money/funding and you to provide a home for them.

OP's daughter is an adult. A young adult yes, but an adult. Old enough and mature enough to go off to uni and live on her own and navigate her life without setting the bridge behind her on fire whilst simultaneously expecting full financial support to continue to travel over it magically.

Everyone so quick to jump on the ASD bandwagon for every glimmer of bad behaviour. Not everything is ASD and if she's attended CAMHS it's likely between them and the school someone would have had a suspicion. Yes it may turn out she has but it shouldn't be the first thought when it's been previously ruled out.

My DSis middle child behaved (still does) like OPs daughter, has come out with outrageous claims about their "toxic" childhood too which are proven to be false by several people, including siblings either side (small age gaps). X HATED that X had siblings when they were younger, HATED it for the same reasons. Would say more money would have been spent on X if there wasn't others, would have had undivided attention always if there wasnt others etc. X was given more of her time and attention over the others because of ther irrational behaviour and guilt trips which started early on. X's siblings have commented about how they resented how much time and attention X demanded, although the others never blamed their mum. X has been tested for ASD, ADHD, ADD in adulthood and even personality disorders, and has previously been treated for depression for events totally unrelated to their parents, yet still made their mothers life miserable and unfairly guilt laden, trying to blame her for anything that went wrong in their life and constant threats of cutting contact, with her apologising for things that didnt even happen, especially for many years when people were telling her X was probably "undiagnosed ND" so she made excuses for appalling behaviour against her. In fact in adulthood, X has pretty much turned on anyone they think should have given them what they want, and didn't. Turns out it's just them and their entitlement at what they believe they deserve from everyone and ironically X now adores their siblings (X is now on their way to middle aged) but never let go of the resentment against mother. There are a few people within our large family who have ND so it's not like we are dismissive of that either. It was gut wrenching for us siblings and our parents to see her letting herself be treated in such a way (and when X became an adult we had many a confrontation due to this)

Bet many on here would have been shouting ASD when X was younger too!

So yes it's possible that their could be something ND going on, but there is also the possibility that there isn't and OP needs to be prepared to have to accept that and for her own sanity, let it go if that's what it takes.

OP please don't beat yourself up about this. It sounds like you've done your best and you sound like a very loving parent who has really tried here. If your DD is autistic (and I think it's highly likely) then speaking to a specialist may make everything clear to you even things you dont realise. I do understand that the advice of speaking to a specialist is a bit like advising you to ride a unicorn but....there we are.

I have an ASD child who I think the world of but good grief has it been hard work raising him sometimes. I'm sure he feels the same way as we both think in very different ways - how could it be easy?!

A bit of this but I think see if you and her can go for therapy together and help fix things. This at least shows you love her and want to fix things. If she doesn't want to, you can't force her. Just explain it's best you could offer and you are sorry it wasn't good enough but will always love her etc.

How dreadful for you. She sounds very ungrateful.
Remind her that you are the people who will always be there for her with unconditional love and support. But if she wants to cut you off that's fine, it's painful but you will do it if that's what she wants, but that's what it has to be no half measures, no expecting you to support her through uni. She goes it alone if that's she wants

I didn't say that OP's DD was suicidal. Reread what I said:

"That she was under CAHMS for a whole fucking year supports [my argument that DD was severely mentally ill]. I got three months, despite being suicidal."

Being suicidal is objectively severe mental illness. DD was under CAHMS for four times the length of someone suicidal. OP may have pulled strings for the first appointment, but DD didn't stay under their care for a whole year for no reason.

None of the above is claiming that DD was suicidal nor making any other claim as to specific symptoms of her mental illness.

Op I have a 16 year old with a diagnosis of ASD (which I've often wondered is correct, as it's mild and they didn't do an ADOS as they said she'd not get the diagnosis with it as she was borderline, but some replies on here have made me feel more confident it is correct). I could completely see this happening with my DD in a few years as we have a very similar situation. She blows very hot and cold. She has two younger siblings with a big age gap. Often makes comments that I am too permissive with them and wouldn't let her do things I let them. Occasionally makes sarcastic comments about generational trauma. Has had CAHMS meetings when she was younger but they agreed her depression seemed more like copycat MH issues and not actually genuine. She was active on some online forums with other autistic teens (Discord etc) and there very much was a strong element of contagion with mental health.

I've also seen similar with autistic teens in work. Obviously fake tics, showy self harm etc. I am not at all saying teens that do this are all faking it, but some autistic teenagers definitely do. They feel different and have internalised trauma from their social difficulties and try to do what a lot of teenagers do and assume the blame lies with their parents.

I also prioritised decorating my dd's room when we moved when she was 14, it was the first room I did. I take her away for a weekend away without siblings every year, give her money if we have a weekend away and she doesn't want to come. Our weekends and holidays are more often aimed at the younger two, but this is because older DD has never enjoyed day trips and chooses not to come out with us most of the time and we haven't pushed it since she has been old enough to stay home or go to a friend's. The other two have always been enthusiastic about everything. Also the reason I am more permissive with parenting the younger two is because I am a more experienced parent! I have explained this to my DD, and that I regret being more strict with her in some ways, but also explained she had benefits they didn't have too.

Currently my DD is not claiming a traumatic childhood but I see flashes of it occasionally when her mood is low, usually caused by issues with friends or college. During an episode like this she says it is toxic at home etc but when the real issue is resolved all these accusations stop and she seems happy with us again.

It just sounds like she is not particularly happy with her current life, and due to ASD, is not seeing the bigger picture and just assuming in an immature way it is all your fault. I'm not really sure what you can do, other than try not to react, and wait for her to figure it out on her own, but you have my sympathy. I think you've had a lot of unfair accusations from people who just don't understand unless they have been in a similar situation with a ND teen.

I don’t think you have done much wrong tbh OP. You’ve done your best, that’s all any of us can do. We are all human after all.

I think it’s today’s society, social media and generation “entitled”. Everyone has to have a reason for not feeling on the biggest high all the time. She doesn’t know real hardship or a terrible childhood. It’s just that everyone else’s life seems so much better (portrayed on SM).

Yes she may feel a bit resentful of her siblings due to the age gap but it sounds like you tried to do the right thing.

I truly think that we haven’t made our kids that resilient - too much wokeness and self indulgence.

You’ve only got to look at all the pouting selfies posted. I can’t ever imagine taking a picture of myself and posting for all to see.

Don’t beat yourself up OP. Be there for her for when she comes to her senses but I wouldn’t be begging for anything.

It’s curious that so many of us are “misreading” the OP.

I’m prepared to accept it may not be intentional, but there is something very off about the way OP is speaking about her daughter.

Those of us who have been exposed to something like this and are obviously very sensitive to it.

If you can’t recognise this sort of mothering, then count yourself very fortunate indeed.

A mother's place is in the wrong.

Absolutely - great advice, and practical.

Such a trite comment.

It sounds like she does not want to cut ties though -she wants limited contact while taking money and whatever support she deems necessary. She's also constructed a childhood and background where other people are responsible for any issues or problems she had or will have. Some people enjoy the troubled background narrative either for attention or excuses.

However, that is the impression from your posts. She may well explain it differently and be able to point to specifics which back up her interpretation. Impossible for anyone here to know. Perhaps start with an OK if you want to limit contact that includes money and a place to stay whenever she decides. The cynic in me thinks that she may decide that you were not too bad after all.

Oh the poor thing sounds like she was so neglected. Some people have horrendous childhoods and don't moan and most keep their feelings to themselves. Tell her to grow up and if she's that adamant she wants to cut ties stop funding her.

She sounds a little bit like my dd who’s in her 2nd year of uni, she often doesn’t want much to do with me and only comes home when she really has too, she says she doesn’t want to live at home after uni (though she doesn’t have a job and never has). My dd has ASD and a younger sibling who’s more severely autistic. Over all dd is one of 5 (3 older half siblings) and the eldest was very similar to your dd, hated have siblings because it meant he got less attention, made everyone feel guilty for not giving him their full attention. He’s now diagnosed with bipolar and I suspect is also on the spectrum.

There seems to be a thing in my DD’s group of friends where they play top trumps with who has the worst parents, it’s seems it’s cool to say ‘my parents are horrible’, all my dd talks about is how her friends don’t want to go home because they don’t get on with their parents but then they are all off holidaying with their parents during the summer and saying what a great time they are having.

Hopefully eventually she will grow up and see that her childhood was pretty standard and she wasn’t hard done by. There is no perfect family or perfect upbringing, there’s always going to be hard times because things don’t always run perfectly.

My eldest dd pulled 'all oh woe is me' shit frequently into her early 20's and nearly pulled the family apart. She has no contact with anyone except dd2 but that is limited and dd2 has to contact. We had a row and she walked, no contact since, 5 years now, she's married now and long as she's okay, that's fine with me.

@SadandStressed3 Reading your messages, I think it is impossible to say you don't care. If you didn't, you wouldn't have gone to the effort if interacting with so many people to seek the best way to move forwards.

I suppose it is hard to know completely whether your perception and her reality are aligned or not in relation to her upbringing so in that sense, we can only advise on your perception.

I personally think if she truly doesn't Want a relationship, then financial support should stop. However, it should stop on the grounds that she is always welcome in the family, but it requires effort on both parts.