Is this the script? Handhold please

[Whatachliche]

I can't believe I'm typing this - after 25 years my HB wants to move out.

When he left for a recent work trip, we were both set to work on our relationship with a therapist. after his return, he has a new gym routine, bought new underwear and has decided he is not feeling emotionally connected to me anymore and he is too 'confused' to know what he wants.

This is the f* script right?

there have been struggles like loss and illness and an unhealthy communication style from his side but we just started couples therapy to work on our relationship and turn things around. now this.

Do I entertain his quest for space or do I believe the signs of the script and just start divorce? I don't want to look through his phone, I think I can't deal with the truth. I rather walk away without knowing if that makes sense, or is that just the fear of no point of return?

This is him playing to you, as his plans aren't working out. He's waiting for the pick me dance. Don't play to his tune.

Agree if you can move out at all, then do it. If he won't go, then you might need to.

Don't tell him though. Just sort it and move out, and take half the stuff with you. The big telly and the sofa, and the big bed 😏

You need him out, or leave yourself.
Does he actually have money for a temporary flat?
Could you ask him what he is waiting for ? He wanted space, he said he doesn't love you, yadayada... Could you say "Well I'm putting the flat on the market". Maybe that will get a reaction. Because it seems as though now he has said he wants space, the chicken have come home to roost,
He never really intended to leave, just have his various OW as well.

Meanwhile you must absolutely carry on with your life as if he is invisible. No friends over for dinner, no shopping, leave the fridge empty, no meals prepared, no laundry, no washing up, no change of sheets. Nada.

Can you at least go stay with various friends for the weekends and have a break?

Unfortunately this is the continued script OP, there's a certain type of man who will bed down roots the minute they're caught out without a plan b and seemingly won't move in spite of the awful things he's done and said to you. He said himself that he's not felt it's been right for 25 years, with or without you divulging your knowledge of his infidelity he's now going to just wait it out so that when you push and shove he's still the victim and that narrative will play in his favour with friends and relatives.

The reality is that he has to get out of his comfort zone, I applaud you for taking the slow and cautious approach but he's hoping you'll cave before he does and either sort the breakup for him or come back. If you come back to him it's a waiting game until this happens again.

My ex refused to move out. He dug his heels in and said I had to move and he knew that I was very much attached to our home that was the first real home I'd ever had due to a terrible childhood. Over a few weeks my head turned massively and I got my resolve, went house hunting, found the one that I wanted then returned home and told him how it was going to work. We were going to get the house valued, he was going to agree to remortgage to buy out my equity and release me so that I could buy my own place.

Over the next few weeks he tried everything bought me flowers cleaned the house from top to bottom, played nice, tried to engage with historical tales of the good times but by that point I saw him for who he really was. He was the booby prize and if I stayed I'd regret every single day that I didn't give myself a chance to be happy.

He even turned up on my new doorstep months later threatening to kill himself because he couldn't live without me. I told him to tell one of the 3 women he'd thrown away our marriage for and he was welcome to do with himself whatever he wanted but if he didn't get off my doorstep I'd call the police.

He moved on very soon after he realised that I wasn't playing his games anymore and married again within 2 years. He's now divorced again after getting what appears to be another 7 year itch.

Your husband's basically saying to you like a toddler "don't want to, can't make me" take that ick that it will give you and slowly build the fire in your belly to start plodding through recovery and the steps will become clear very quickly in the next week or so. At the moment you must be exhausted with the headspace this is taking so continue to grey rock and don't react or discuss it with him. The best satisfaction will be when you have the ability to very coldly tell him how this is going to work and putting yourself back in the driving seat.

Excellent post from @Dollyparton3 there!

you might be right about trauma bonding. every time we have a discussion about our relationship/divorce I come away feeling helpless, in the wrong and completely out of my depth. He is still swearing there is no OW, and even though I have their texts and photos, I believe him in the moment he is sitting inn front of me. It's like he and the OW, he is a different person in my head. I feel like I can't trust reality, or my own thoughts and believes. When I look the evidence of cheating and lies I'm happy to get rid of him, when I'm trapped in a discussion with him, I feel like a different person in a different universe. I'm getting more and more scared about this feeling, am I having a mental disorder. maybe it is all me? I am talking to friends instead of a therapist as I must focus on a good financial outcome for my divorce so cant spend money on a therapist right now, paying my so far very good solicitor is more important. I also don't want to move out as the flat is my sanctuary, and I want to try to buy him out.

@Whatachliche
It's shock and grief op
I was the same when my exh was drinking in the morning with our baby
I had seen it with my own eyes and yet my brain was telling me it couldn't be real

It's not a mental disorder it is a normal reaction to the situation. You need professional counselling to help you to navigate and learn coping strategies for this relationship and future relationships. It's because you have been conditioned for so long to believe what he says and does. In reality you know this is just a smoke screen. You will be fine OP I promise you that. It's a work in progress.

I do think that your feelings are normal@Whatachliche
You're going through an ordeal and your H is still lying to you.
I'm not surprised you're feeling so unsure.

@Whatachliche

I am talking to friends instead of a therapist as I must focus on a good financial outcome for my divorce so cant spend money on a therapist right now, paying my so far very good solicitor is more important.

Maybe try speaking to the Samaritans for now OP?

www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/

🌹

Excellent post from DollyParton

It's because you have been conditioned for so long to believe what he says and does.

This OP. Your ability to put on your rose tinted glasses when you know for a fact he is lying to you is indicative of how much he has brainwashed you over the years.
He has a dual personality/double life and your head cannot reconcile the side he presents to you with the other, secret side.

What does he say to you wanting to buy him out? Have you looked into doing this?

He’s certainly getting his own way with things so far. You need to find your anger op - he’s just taking the piss at this point.

yes he has brainwashed me. i'm not quite clear with the financial situation yet, waiting for mortgage advisor etc. the financial order is not signed yet. this is why I'm treading so, SO carefully not to out him or upset him.

I've challenged his version of things recently and his repose was rather telling. He just gets a little aggressive with his voice and barks at me if 'things will get malicious now'?

i really feel i'll unleash hell if i out his affair. He will not move out, I can see him staying out of spite. legally I can't make him move.

Yes, so if you start questioning him or get anywhere close to the truth he turns the tables and his manner becomes threatening. Classic narc behaviour.
In his world the only narrative can be that he is the victim and he won’t allow his bad behaviour to even get an airing. Even if you present him with evidence he’ll deny it and gaslight you. These people are not normal and don’t think like us, in his head he’ll honestly believe he’s done nothing wrong because he’ll have his own false version of events as to why you drove him to have an affair. I bet he’ll be telling others that he’d tried to end it and you wouldn’t accept it. That he even went to therapy with you so “he tried” and doesn’t he deserve happiness (with the OW)?

I don’t know how you can stand being around him op - I really would look at moving out and pushing a house sale. He’s not going to budge and you’ll not be able to move on whilst he’s still around you and calling the shots.

Its shit that you may lose your home but something tells me he’s not going to let you stay there one way or another. He sounds like a thoroughly nasty individual.

You need to take control. You can be happy in another property - one that is all yours. Wouldn’t it be nice to be completely away from him and his bullshit?

@Whatachliche

I agree with others, you're reacting to his bullshit in the way you have been conditioned to react. I'd say it's more Pavlovian than Stockholm. They condition us with 'rewards' for accepting their lies and their behaviours. And the 'reward' is that they stop harassing and abusing us. The Pavlovian reflex is very hard to break, because it happens before we even think about it.

Which is why it's probably best now to just stop talking to him about moving out. I know you want him out, but you know he's not going to go until he's good and ready or he is legally forced out. So best to save that energy to propel you forward with the divorce.

Same goes for the affair and the other issues in the marriage. Why bother talking about it? You know he's going to lie and bully, don't subject yourself to that. Same thing, save that energy for the legalities. Plus, you don't want to 'tip your hand' by saying something out of frustration or anger. Much better for you that he think he has you buffaloed. It may result in him dropping his own guard and saying something or not hiding something adequately. You never know, they have supreme confidence in their superiority.

You must treat him as if he does not exist. Say nothing, react to nothing. Like the swan, you must appear to glide smoothly up the river but paddling furiously against the tide under the water. Remember, indifference. And now is the time to start faking it until you are making it.

It will be OK. Just keep going. Deal with what's in front of you.

So, does he intend to sell ? Does he want to buy You out? Is he prepared to let you buy Him out. ?
OR now that push comes to shove, just wants to stay cohabitating?
My feeling is that he isn't ready to end it all, So you are going to have to force him to accept he is one way or another, going to lose his house, & long term partner & all the comfort & security that gies with it.
He gas dominated for so long, he is not ready for you to take control.
But you must.

I saw this today and it resonated with me after betrayal and how, as much as I wanted revenge, I didn’t ❤️

No, it's not you or in your head.

You had Person 1: loving husband, good life.

Then you discovered a Person 2 existed: lying, vindictive, creep

Of course it's hard to reconcile the two when you're faced with Person 1. That's how they get away with it, you're not going mad.

The mask is starting to slip, as your noticing. It will continue to slip until eventually you'll be able to hold the Jekyll & Hyde together as one when you look at him.

Plus, when we discover betrayal,we experience a loss. There's a form of bereavement - all that love for him, what do you do with it? Ingrained habits of expecting to enjoy his company and do nice things together, what do you with them?

Of course your mind is going to assert the status quo - but as things progress, you'll find places to put these old loving feelings & expectations, you'll let go of them.

Just takes time. In the meantime you don't have therapy but you do have us.

Of course its confusing, the lying on that scale is astounding. & from someone you have known & loved & trusted for most if your adult life.
Why does he do it? How is it possible? Who is he ?

He is like a whole new alien species

I'm reflecting more about why I'm not confronting him with his cheating, and I realised that he will deny deny deny, reverse and blame me. and I feel I am not strong enough for his refusal to admit what he is doing. But I'm also thinking it might be worth trying to out him and try to use it to leave the house...

him moving out I mean, i'm free to leave the building

This.

Normally a traumatic event or series of events has an end but you are still in it.

Don't think you are going to get over it. You are still in it!

Is it worth writing him a letter? Get all your evidence down in a coherent, organised way? Give him no wiggle room?

He's not going to leave the house because that would inconvenience him. Is it up for sale yet?

He has agreed a legal divorce and there is nothing more to be said really. There’s no point in having any conversations about your relationship anymore because it’s over. You say confronting him would make him more likely to leave though….?

Also I am not sure about the merits of staying in the same house as a man who is messing with your head and whom you are divorcing. You say your home is your sanctuary - but that must be hard if you are living daily like this? There is no guarantee he will agree to move out or agree for you to buy him out. So far he has refused. Perhaps you know him better and have calculated he will move shortly. (Otherwise this could drag on for a very long time, even for years, if neither will move or sell).