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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this the script? Handhold please

995 replies

Whatachliche · 10/02/2024 21:37

I can't believe I'm typing this - after 25 years my HB wants to move out.

When he left for a recent work trip, we were both set to work on our relationship with a therapist. after his return, he has a new gym routine, bought new underwear and has decided he is not feeling emotionally connected to me anymore and he is too 'confused' to know what he wants.

This is the f* script right?

there have been struggles like loss and illness and an unhealthy communication style from his side but we just started couples therapy to work on our relationship and turn things around. now this.

Do I entertain his quest for space or do I believe the signs of the script and just start divorce? I don't want to look through his phone, I think I can't deal with the truth. I rather walk away without knowing if that makes sense, or is that just the fear of no point of return?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
SqueakyDoor · 07/04/2024 10:54

About the lies they tell - all the small, meaningless ones, they tell those so the massive, life-changing ones don't seem so bad in their warped minds.

Sunnymummy8 · 07/04/2024 11:27

I have read all you replies OP - you do not deserve this! But I find it admirable the way you are handling it all..

ZestyMaximus · 07/04/2024 11:31

SqueakyDoor · 07/04/2024 10:54

About the lies they tell - all the small, meaningless ones, they tell those so the massive, life-changing ones don't seem so bad in their warped minds.

Yes, this. Plus it's practice for the big lies they're going to tell too.

Gloriosaford · 07/04/2024 12:39

They do seem to be found out further along the way though - let that be your comfort
I agree with this and remember if you go 'easy' on him (ie don't challenge him or fight him head on, choose a strategy which allows him to exit from your life quickly and with as little fuss as possible) he will think he is clever and that he can outsmart people. This will embolden him in the future so that he overreaches, he pisses off the wrong people/ pisses of too many people, shits on his own doorstep so often that there is no refuge for him.
He will meet his own fate, you do not need to get your hands dirty by punishing him yourself.

friskybivalves · 07/04/2024 13:13

'They do seem to be found out further along the way though - let that be your comfort. They have become blase in their manipulation of you...'

There are some truly wise posters on here. He seems not to realise, for example, that you are able to access the full range of his text messages. You are uncovering horrors within, but also invaluable insights. The goal, I guess, is not to make him rabbit pie. Rather to soar away on your own thermals - leaving him far, far beneath you.

Gloriosaford · 07/04/2024 13:22

Definitely don't get involved in the messy business of butchering the rabbit!

Causewerethespecialtwo · 07/04/2024 14:17

Could it be the case that OW1 has told him that she isn’t interested in leaving her partner and making a life with him? She was just in it for the affair. And OW2 and OW3 are new interests that he is trying to line up now that it looks like he is going to be alone?

Imjustagirlintheworld · 07/04/2024 14:53

How long did it take you to see through his mind games and manipulation? Did you confront him when you left? or did you play it safe?

It was after a few months for me - the OD story came after my dh had threatened to contact his wife. (I’d ended things with dh but he was struggling to move on - so I’d told him I was seeing someone else)
He (narc) had told me he’d informed her he was moving out and had met someone else - then she suddenly had an overdose? It seemed too convenient. And why would she do that if they were only living as friends and she was seeing other people? He’d obviously invented the story to try and stop my dh from contacting her.
I was also uncomfortable with his love bombing of me and the speed at which he seemed to want things to move.
Id told him I was uncomfortable with the situation as he was still living with his DW and it felt off. I asked him for space - He then went into manipulation mode telling me I was his only friend and the only person he could talk to. I noticed when I tried to pull back he would try to make me feel sorry for him.

Then my dh met up with his DW (she actually contacted him) and the shit hit the fan basically. She knew nothing about me and had discovered his affair by hacking his phone messages.

My dh told her all the things he’d said to me about her and their relationship and she was aghast - none of it was true. He said she was in shock and physically shaking.
He (narc) even told me he was friendly with a local gangster who lived next door to him. Not true (I later realised he’d probably invented this story as protection should my dh go after him) It was like everything had been thought out by him beforehand.

He obviously wasn’t as clever as he thought though bc within months it was all crumbling down around him. I think his plan was just to carry on shagging both of us as long as possible. Another thing about them is that they are very shallow/materialistic- attracted to good looking people who are confident, together, successful, seem like they have money, well dressed etc. Because that’s who they want to be. They don’t go after losers iykwim. It’s almost like they’re jealous and want to try and get one over on you - they take pleasure in knowing they’re deceiving you.

At this point I just sent him a message telling him the game was up, I knew he was a pathological liar etc and blocked him. Even at the point he was begging his wife to stay with him (and threatening to kill himself) he was texting me telling me how in love with me he is, can he meet me tomorrow etc! He then messaged me on another number (after I’d told him he’d been exposed) to tell me he’d never loved me and “what WE did was disgusting”! Basically trying to take control of the situation and make out like I was as bad as him! No apology or acknowledgment of what he’d done and the lies he’d told. I realised at that point I’d never get any answers from him. I think they even convince themselves they haven’t done anything wrong.

His wife is the higher earner and he needs her to facilitate his lifestyle - she basically pays the rent after his business failed and ultimately I just realised what an absolute loser he is.

I couldn’t believe I’d been so stupid. When you look at all the lies afterwards it sounds ludicrous and people will think “how could you fall for that?” But unless you’ve met someone with this personality disorder you will never understand how they work. It’s gradual and extremely subtle. They come across like that lovely bloke that everyone loves, everyone knows they can rely on - will do anything for anyone. The lies aren’t overt, they just slip them in in conversation so it isn’t obvious at all. It’s only afterwards you think “how the fuck could I have been so stupid”!

At the time I would’ve loved to confront him however I knew that ultimately there was no point. He’d just deny and lie some more. When I told him that his wife had told my dh the reality of the situation he just said that they were the ones who were lying to try and keep us apart!

I don’t know whether his DW has stayed with him or not but I sincerely hope she finds the strength to get out. I’ve a feeling that he will just turn himself into the victim though and manipulate her to stay.

Im pretty sure he will do it again though - he was far too smooth for it to have been a one off. And I think the empty pit in their soul means they will always be looking for the attention and validation to try and fill it. I reckon like your dh there were probably plenty of OW.

I don’t actually understand how they have time for it! He was meeting me during the day when he should’ve been working - no wonder his businesses keep going under!

TheShellBeach · 07/04/2024 15:25

My ex tried to tell me that my solicitor wasn't capable, and that she was trying to con me.

I think that was because he didn't like the letters she was sending to his solicitor.
Hmm

Imjustagirlintheworld · 07/04/2024 15:29

TheShellBeach · 07/04/2024 15:25

My ex tried to tell me that my solicitor wasn't capable, and that she was trying to con me.

I think that was because he didn't like the letters she was sending to his solicitor.
Hmm

Yes, they try to make you doubt everyone around you so you don’t know who to trust. If you listen carefully to them you will realise they denigrate and slur the character of other key people in their life and yours. Usually people they are threatened by or are worried may expose them.

Did he have issues with your family and friends op? They often try to turn you against your support group.

Bestlife18 · 07/04/2024 16:22

Imjustagirlintheworld · 07/04/2024 14:53

How long did it take you to see through his mind games and manipulation? Did you confront him when you left? or did you play it safe?

It was after a few months for me - the OD story came after my dh had threatened to contact his wife. (I’d ended things with dh but he was struggling to move on - so I’d told him I was seeing someone else)
He (narc) had told me he’d informed her he was moving out and had met someone else - then she suddenly had an overdose? It seemed too convenient. And why would she do that if they were only living as friends and she was seeing other people? He’d obviously invented the story to try and stop my dh from contacting her.
I was also uncomfortable with his love bombing of me and the speed at which he seemed to want things to move.
Id told him I was uncomfortable with the situation as he was still living with his DW and it felt off. I asked him for space - He then went into manipulation mode telling me I was his only friend and the only person he could talk to. I noticed when I tried to pull back he would try to make me feel sorry for him.

Then my dh met up with his DW (she actually contacted him) and the shit hit the fan basically. She knew nothing about me and had discovered his affair by hacking his phone messages.

My dh told her all the things he’d said to me about her and their relationship and she was aghast - none of it was true. He said she was in shock and physically shaking.
He (narc) even told me he was friendly with a local gangster who lived next door to him. Not true (I later realised he’d probably invented this story as protection should my dh go after him) It was like everything had been thought out by him beforehand.

He obviously wasn’t as clever as he thought though bc within months it was all crumbling down around him. I think his plan was just to carry on shagging both of us as long as possible. Another thing about them is that they are very shallow/materialistic- attracted to good looking people who are confident, together, successful, seem like they have money, well dressed etc. Because that’s who they want to be. They don’t go after losers iykwim. It’s almost like they’re jealous and want to try and get one over on you - they take pleasure in knowing they’re deceiving you.

At this point I just sent him a message telling him the game was up, I knew he was a pathological liar etc and blocked him. Even at the point he was begging his wife to stay with him (and threatening to kill himself) he was texting me telling me how in love with me he is, can he meet me tomorrow etc! He then messaged me on another number (after I’d told him he’d been exposed) to tell me he’d never loved me and “what WE did was disgusting”! Basically trying to take control of the situation and make out like I was as bad as him! No apology or acknowledgment of what he’d done and the lies he’d told. I realised at that point I’d never get any answers from him. I think they even convince themselves they haven’t done anything wrong.

His wife is the higher earner and he needs her to facilitate his lifestyle - she basically pays the rent after his business failed and ultimately I just realised what an absolute loser he is.

I couldn’t believe I’d been so stupid. When you look at all the lies afterwards it sounds ludicrous and people will think “how could you fall for that?” But unless you’ve met someone with this personality disorder you will never understand how they work. It’s gradual and extremely subtle. They come across like that lovely bloke that everyone loves, everyone knows they can rely on - will do anything for anyone. The lies aren’t overt, they just slip them in in conversation so it isn’t obvious at all. It’s only afterwards you think “how the fuck could I have been so stupid”!

At the time I would’ve loved to confront him however I knew that ultimately there was no point. He’d just deny and lie some more. When I told him that his wife had told my dh the reality of the situation he just said that they were the ones who were lying to try and keep us apart!

I don’t know whether his DW has stayed with him or not but I sincerely hope she finds the strength to get out. I’ve a feeling that he will just turn himself into the victim though and manipulate her to stay.

Im pretty sure he will do it again though - he was far too smooth for it to have been a one off. And I think the empty pit in their soul means they will always be looking for the attention and validation to try and fill it. I reckon like your dh there were probably plenty of OW.

I don’t actually understand how they have time for it! He was meeting me during the day when he should’ve been working - no wonder his businesses keep going under!

I’ve also run into one of these sadly. Pathological liar is a great way of describing them and the lengths they go to to manipulate is incredible. Sorry you also fell victim to one.

Whatachliche · 08/04/2024 07:49

Causewerethespecialtwo · 07/04/2024 14:17

Could it be the case that OW1 has told him that she isn’t interested in leaving her partner and making a life with him? She was just in it for the affair. And OW2 and OW3 are new interests that he is trying to line up now that it looks like he is going to be alone?

it might be possible that OW1 is more hesitant to leave her husband, but I think it is more that they are both carefully protecting the 'nice & kind' persona they have built up. they understand how differently they will be received as a new couple when they announce a new romance after divorce instead of shortly after I have filed for divorce.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 08/04/2024 14:10

@Whatachliche

they understand how differently they will be received as a new couple when they announce a new romance after divorce instead of shortly after I have filed for divorce.

There will be the right time to quietly tell your social circle and extended family exactly why you're divorcing him and you'll know it when it comes. It just may be that you don't have to wait until it's done and dusted. Perhaps the time may come once he's signed off on the financials.

But, sorry to say, it seems that these days adulterous couples don't experience the censure they did 'back in my day'. Nowadays it seems as though people prefer to turn a blind eye, pretend the adultery never happened, and accept the 'new partner'. So if you're thinking they'll be sent to Coventry chances are that other than your family and your close friends, your wider social circle (ie couple friends, his family) will simply ignore what he did. Personally, I think it sucks that a cheating couple usually doesn't face consequences.

Whatachliche · 08/04/2024 15:41

AcrossthePond55 · 08/04/2024 14:10

@Whatachliche

they understand how differently they will be received as a new couple when they announce a new romance after divorce instead of shortly after I have filed for divorce.

There will be the right time to quietly tell your social circle and extended family exactly why you're divorcing him and you'll know it when it comes. It just may be that you don't have to wait until it's done and dusted. Perhaps the time may come once he's signed off on the financials.

But, sorry to say, it seems that these days adulterous couples don't experience the censure they did 'back in my day'. Nowadays it seems as though people prefer to turn a blind eye, pretend the adultery never happened, and accept the 'new partner'. So if you're thinking they'll be sent to Coventry chances are that other than your family and your close friends, your wider social circle (ie couple friends, his family) will simply ignore what he did. Personally, I think it sucks that a cheating couple usually doesn't face consequences.

agree, people outside my closest circle will not care and will welcome the OW. I think I will look stronger and more 'together' if I simply let everyone know I filed for divorce, which is factually correct. People will make their own conclusions, as he looks so successful on paper and has built such a 'kind' street angel (home devil) persona. why would someone divorce someone like that.
it might be much more impactful to reveal some of his other lies to our wider circle - lies that he told our wider circle.

OP posts:
Whatachliche · 08/04/2024 15:46

@Imjustagirlintheworld Did he have issues with your family and friends op? They often try to turn you against your support group.

yes he did. but on a microscopic, subtle level. more like continuously planting doubt about friends rather than slagging them off.
In hindsight - I can see it now, it is done in a crafty way, same as his lies: he always wraps a small portion of truth into his lies, to make them withstand questioning. he did the same with planting doubt about friends - always taking a real occasion and twisting it a tiny bit, and then get this hook of doubt planting in...

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 08/04/2024 16:07

Did he have issues with your family and friends, OP? They often try to turn you against your support group

Mine did. In fact, he did such a number on my sisters that I eventually went NC with them (mind you, that had been coming for a long time, so it wasn't just ExH's doing).

My best friend was bamboozled for a while, then she realised what he was doing, and she became a wonderful rock and support to me. Years later, she and I talked about how he'd done it. Such a fucking bastard, such a fucking narcissist.

Imjustagirlintheworld · 08/04/2024 18:02

yes he did. but on a microscopic, subtle level. more like continuously planting doubt about friends rather than slagging them off.

Oh yes they’re far too clever to do it overtly - then you’d quickly realise they’re a nasty piece of work. They really are insidious - I think they put a hell of a lot of thought into their lies and turning people against one another. Their goal is to get you to trust no one but them.
And he’ll probably have been doing the same about you to other people to shore up his “she’s a nutter/has been a cold fish for years” story or whatever narrative he’s been peddling. Once they’ve discarded you they often try to slur your name - but just remember that anyone who is YOUR person and worth their salt will see right through him - the others don’t matter.

One thing I read about narcs is that they always portray themselves as the victim in their marriage/relationship - there is always a nagging wife in the background who’s never happy with anything. That’s certainly what dickface/narc said to me - at first I fell for it but obviously I realise now she’s probably just a very nice woman who has fallen victim to him. He never overtly said “she’s a bitch” or anything but “she’s unable to have kids and it’s led to MH issues”, “she blames me for my business going under and us losing the house we were buying which is understandable but now she hates me and hasn’t had sex with me for 3 years” and “I really worry about her - she needs help for her issues” - that was his favourite. Evil bile wrapped up as concern.

Dollyparton3 · 09/04/2024 07:53

When I finally uncovered evidence of my ex's cheating and subsequent attempts to get OW 2 and 3 on the go OP I cleaned under the Tim of the toilet every day with his electric toothbrush. Just saying Wink

Newestname002 · 09/04/2024 09:49

Imjustagirlintheworld · 08/04/2024 18:02

yes he did. but on a microscopic, subtle level. more like continuously planting doubt about friends rather than slagging them off.

Oh yes they’re far too clever to do it overtly - then you’d quickly realise they’re a nasty piece of work. They really are insidious - I think they put a hell of a lot of thought into their lies and turning people against one another. Their goal is to get you to trust no one but them.
And he’ll probably have been doing the same about you to other people to shore up his “she’s a nutter/has been a cold fish for years” story or whatever narrative he’s been peddling. Once they’ve discarded you they often try to slur your name - but just remember that anyone who is YOUR person and worth their salt will see right through him - the others don’t matter.

One thing I read about narcs is that they always portray themselves as the victim in their marriage/relationship - there is always a nagging wife in the background who’s never happy with anything. That’s certainly what dickface/narc said to me - at first I fell for it but obviously I realise now she’s probably just a very nice woman who has fallen victim to him. He never overtly said “she’s a bitch” or anything but “she’s unable to have kids and it’s led to MH issues”, “she blames me for my business going under and us losing the house we were buying which is understandable but now she hates me and hasn’t had sex with me for 3 years” and “I really worry about her - she needs help for her issues” - that was his favourite. Evil bile wrapped up as concern.

My goodness - how evil such people are. If you can't really see what they're doing to you can't defend yourself. You can't identify what it is that's "off", even if you do recognise that something's not quite right. And if you, the person closest to their deliberate and studied bile can't see it, how can anyone else who might have supported you against him? And, of course, they'd use any shared children the same way... Evil. 🌹

Whatachliche · 09/04/2024 13:59

He is spending more time at home and I feel I'm collapsing back into not believing all the cruelty he has subjected me to. Why is my brain so disconnected to my emotions? This is so exhausting. I asked him to move out but "he can't afford it"

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 09/04/2024 14:02

Can you move out?
He's not going to make this easy for you, is he?

TheShellBeach · 09/04/2024 14:04

Your brain, your emotions are still going over what's happened.
You've been with him for a long time.
It will be difficult to come to terms with what he's really like, because you had many years of believing he was someone else entirely.

You won't be able to switch that off very easily or quickly.

Imjustagirlintheworld · 09/04/2024 14:49

Whatachliche · 09/04/2024 13:59

He is spending more time at home and I feel I'm collapsing back into not believing all the cruelty he has subjected me to. Why is my brain so disconnected to my emotions? This is so exhausting. I asked him to move out but "he can't afford it"

Is there anyone you can stay with whilst the divorce goes through and the flat is sold? Could you afford a short term rental?

Its not fair and it’s not right but if he won’t move out you need to focus on protecting your mental well being. He is calling the shots here and you’re going to be entirely at his mercy whilst things pan out the way he wants. He’s clearly planning on dragging this out.

Its pretty obvious at this point that none of his OW are willing to let him move in with them or he’d be gone. Next thing is he’ll be trying to cosy up to you again as his fallback plans haven’t worked out.

You need to get away from him or you’ll never be able to move to the next phase of your life 💐

The flat will need to be sold or one of you buy the other out - that’s a given. So plough on with it I say. Have you talked about this with him? What does he see happening?

Catoo · 09/04/2024 14:52

Whatachliche · 09/04/2024 13:59

He is spending more time at home and I feel I'm collapsing back into not believing all the cruelty he has subjected me to. Why is my brain so disconnected to my emotions? This is so exhausting. I asked him to move out but "he can't afford it"

Be kind to yourself OP. There have been genuinely good times over the years together and so of course you will feel it. You aren’t a robot.

Be sure though, because you haven’t crumbled in the way expected, that more punishment is on its way.

Whatever he knows you want him to do, he’ll do the opposite. You won’t be able to foresee all of these things but you can learn to have grey rock responses like ‘ok’ and ‘sure’ and ‘alright’ etc.

Watch out for him suggesting you do small things together, getting you to agree, then letting you down.

You’ve got this.
💐

Acornsoup · 09/04/2024 16:13

It's like Stockholm syndrome/trauma bonding OP. It's normal to want it all to go away and be the way you thought it was. This is why people stay with abusers. If you can, stay strong and stay angry. I do wonder if you not wanting to out him is you subconsciously giving yourself the option to keep the status quo if he dumps OW1,2,3,4. This is not a criticism btw. It's a normal reaction to pain and grief to want to escape it and why it so important to get counselling if you can so that you can heal and recover.