Abuse is everywhere

[Eastwestt]

Cheating, lying, financial abuse, emotional abuse etc is so common, I’m actually shocked to come across any relationship that doesn’t feature abuse.

Not sure why I’m posting. It’s just something I have very depressingly realised lately.

Friends, colleagues, relatives etc - the experiences are countless. From all walks of life. Including my own experiences of men too.

Well I'm not sure what to make of this.

Danish men are the largest group/ nationality marrying Thai women via online websites 🤮

I think there have been many studies showing that British men think they do 50/50 but the reality is women do around 84% of household/ domestic tasks.

One thing I've always found with British men is what they say and what they do is completely at odds.

@Sceptical123, Sorry, I am not sure if your post is following on from the Denmark discussion or not. Please, ignore this if not.
My impression (and I do not see it directly) is that Denmark has just as much creepiness towards women as in the UK. And, the horror stories of women who have been raped appears just as bad.
Where things are a little better (and just an impression) is that there is more gender balance in agency and experience.
Regarding the empathy, it was late in my life when I first experienced women as true friends. By this I mean, if I had to cancel an event because of a personal crisis, the ones whose main concern was for me rather than the inconvenience. This made sense when I had a girlfriend, but it was also the case when I was single. Frankly, the idea that women could be as empathetic to men as men were to women or other men just did not seem realistic. That was not reality, but was my experience. I think it can just be genuinely hard to see the other side.

Yes.
And, as I mentioned, the main difference in the UK and Denmark in housework division seems to be perception.
Most British women would say I barely lifted a finger and could not cook, the Danish women I lived with would say I was very clean and tidy and a very good cook. That seems to be fairly typical, I am afraid it might not be better.

I too believe that most relationship have some kind of abuse weather it being hidden or public. Currently they say about 50% of marriages end up in divorce, but that does not meant that the other half are happy and healthy relationships, it only means that the other half chooses to stay in a relationship no matter what.

We do not know what is happening behind closed doors. I just ended my marriage in which I was financially and emotionally abused. Nobody knew. My father was a loving and gentle man everyone loved. Inside of our house, he was a monster who severely abused my mom, emotionally, verbally and physically.

I'm talking about the reality though.
The reality is that British women do far more domestic tasks.

Perhaps Danes have low expectations ?

My post was just to say that I am not sure Denmark is that much better and the difference is in the perception. I really think that is very, very real difference in perception.

Yes that's what I took from your post.

I have German friends who have zero expectations that their DH /DP would do CC or housework.
Kinder,Kirche, Kuche!

@Iamnocook, Yes, the German attitude is remarkable. Also, I lived in Belgium for a while. There was amazement from some women that I could quickly knock a meal together without fuss and we (my male flatmate and I) kept our flat clean without a maid.

Having looked at the stats it appears about the same as the UK. 1 in 4 women in Denmark experiencing physical or sexual violence. So really my assumptions aren't borne out, except to say that Danes perhaps have better social structure for families which supports women.

Thanks.
I really do like Denmark, but the rosy Guardian view is party misplaced snobbery I think.

This is ignorant. I'm neither poor or uneducated and I was in an abusive relationship. None of my friends would have said that I put up with shit from men but I did, a lot.

@Felicia19

I'm not sure how great those friendships are, as you're truly awful at listening (and somewhat lacking in empathy too!)

Me - I was in an abusive relationship and have lots of close friends & family that never knew.

You - I definitely know that I have no friends or family in abusive relationships.

Me - I work with dv victims and the vast majority have told nobody about what they've gone through.

You - I definitely know that I have no friends or family in abusive relationships.

If your attitude wasn't so concerning, it would almost be funny.
There's a distinct possibility that people in your life either don't confide in you, as you're unable to listen or actually have and you still weren't listening.

I have lots of relatives in Denmark and definitely wouldn’t hold it up as an ideal. Many of my relatives there have toxic marriages/relationships, with abusive behaviour from women as well as men.

Women who work are supported in various ways, but women who have children without getting married aren’t entitled to anything (especially if they have been SAHM caring for children while their partner works) and if the man leaves them he is automatically entitled to 50/50 access as standard.

Danes are very conservative and conformist and judge those who don’t fit in. They are also very materialistic in terms of clothes, homewares etc.

Finally, they are also racist. One of my Danish female cousins married a (blond, blue-eyed) man with a Polish background and he changed his surname to hers afterwards - not for gender equality reason but to avoid the racism he had experienced in the workplace.

It's disgusting to say only poor uneducated women are abused.
There are risk factors but any women can find themselves in this situation.
My mother was strong, together, beautiful and intelligent.
My F saw this as his ultimate goal, to destroy her and he did.
Many of these men enjoy destroying the lives of successful women , it gives them an extra kick to their pathetic ego.
It's offensive to come out with the whole " I don't take shit from men" as if these women just weren't good enough or clever enough to avoid it.
Victim blaming at its worst

My DM is a bit like this. She’ll see a headline in the news about domestic violence statistics and say, “Do you know, I had so many friends when I was younger and not one of them had any problems like that! It must be a new thing.” She also insists she never met any gay people until very late in life.

It's an assault on your sense of yourself and your boundaries, nothing to do with intelligence. Maybe intelligent women have more income though. That helps escape but often children of "intelligent" parents are locked into more expensive lives and schools.

Aside from the 'share of housework in Denmark' conversation and sniping between posters about knowing - or not knowing - what goes on behind closed doors, this is an interesting thread. A couple of things have come up time and again- men don't start off abusive. It happens when they 'go off' their female partners (wonder if this is also true of male only relationships). Men often turn abusive rather than leave. Are they unable to admit to themselves that they no longer like their partner? My ex didn't seem to be able to see that he'd gone off me to the point of zero physical contact and slinking away if I attempted to touch him. Yet told the relationship counsellor repeatedly that he loved me and wanted to make it work. Is it a fear of failure thing?

But men are also abusive to their mothers, sisters, daughters - there’s something more going on in terms of male attitudes to the women in their lives

@Gottseidank oh yes totally agree that misogyny is rife and women have been and continue to be treated inequitably by men.

But I'm interested in the relationship dynamic that many posters have referred to of men who start out loving but, in a boil the frog sort of way, end up treating their partners more and more horribly rather than leaving them.

@Superlambaanana - that is an element of control; such a man can ignore your wishes. He isn't interested but you have no agency

So are some man happy/ content/ satisfied with their relationship providing they are 'in control' - even if they don't actually like their partner? Maybe. But seems deeper seated to me. I do wonder if men are discombobulated by being forced to live in civilised society. I think many of them would be more at home fighting and dying in ditches in armed skirmishes the way our ancestors did for centuries and up until relatively very recently.

@Superlambaanana , I'd think most people would be happier if with someone they like? Men seem more likely to expect to have the upper hand, not all of them of course, and women can also be domineering & controlling.
I dont know what to say about the skirmishing!
🤺🤼‍♂

@Superlambaanana, I think I did have a fear of failure in my first marraige that meant I kept trying hard to make it work when I should have just given u earlier. That is perhaps a male thing.
There is an assumption on this thread that women are better and less abusive than men. We know that lesbian marriages are not more stable or less abusive than gay male ones, and the presumption of many posters that women are generally not as abusive seems a dangerous one.

It's important to acknowledge that domestic violence is a significant issue and affects individuals of all ages, genders, and backgrounds. Studies have shown that domestic violence is a two-way street, with 50% of incidents being reciprocal. It's also concerning to note that 53% of nonreciprocal domestic violence is committed against men. Shockingly, 71% of the instigators in nonreciprocal partner violence were women.
I don't think calling a partner in action in the home regarding tasks abusive is helpful either.
Who decides what is done and when?
Unmet expectations are not abuse.

@Missamyp, Thanks. Obviously, a man hitting a woman is likely far more serious because of physical and social circumstances. But it is worrying when we see one sex as inherently more morally correct.